Treknetters, False Bay, Muizenberg
- Thread starter Marthin
- Start date
This is just question so please dont take my head off. By removing lots of harders, maasbankers, elf etc. are they not removing a huge part of the food chain for a lot of the predator fish? Does this result in fish moving on to where there is more food? Could this be the reason why fishing has gone down or are we as shore anglers to blame for not doing enough tag & releasing? I repeat this is all questions.
:fishnthis is an interesting topic, which i also think has gone a bit "off the point", everyone is blaming trekkers, (which is fair!) for the lousy fishing in false bay,,but, as an observation, has anyone considered the pollution that pour's into false bay? this has been discussed before on sealine,so it's not a new theme,,,i'm not a (rocket) scientist, but anyone with a bit of thought to our enviroment will see the discharge of effluent from the sewage works,the rivers witch bring all sorts,from the farm/wine farm effuent's, which are mostly nitrites,not nitrates,,,,also all the people that wash?/(crap) in the river's, this also get's into the bay.along with a 100000,000 plastic bags! factories like aeci in s/west have now closed,(was a major polluter of the ocean),but i'm sure other industries have added there 'quota' to the sea!
any comments,,,, so far?
we as angler's are not the problem as far as depleting fish stocks are concerned,i am not a 'kak' angler,i also return most fish i catch,,,i have returned 4 in the last 3months,i've only had 6 fish out the water tho'.a few bait fish too,, but no more than 20 in total,mostly maasbanker.so where am i the big problem as far as 'recreational fishing is concerned??
the press people will always look for a good story,i.e' blame the fisherman,trekker's or whatever,,,they seem to not 'research' information,,so do me a favour and do a bit of research' youselves, this is also a worldwide problem,so don't think we are immune to pollution! the snag is that no-one in government will admit to it!
tite lines,,,,,,, when it happen's!
any comments,,,, so far?
we as angler's are not the problem as far as depleting fish stocks are concerned,i am not a 'kak' angler,i also return most fish i catch,,,i have returned 4 in the last 3months,i've only had 6 fish out the water tho'.a few bait fish too,, but no more than 20 in total,mostly maasbanker.so where am i the big problem as far as 'recreational fishing is concerned??
the press people will always look for a good story,i.e' blame the fisherman,trekker's or whatever,,,they seem to not 'research' information,,so do me a favour and do a bit of research' youselves, this is also a worldwide problem,so don't think we are immune to pollution! the snag is that no-one in government will admit to it!
tite lines,,,,,,, when it happen's!
[color=#006600]Loomisx5[/color] wrote:
finally someone has hit the nail on the head "take the baitfish out and the predators will find alternate feeding grounds" that in my opinion is the problem with strandfontein yes the trekkers are a part of the problem but the couple of nice fish they trek ( apart from peeing everyone off ) also goes to prove that these fish are in the bay and are following the baitfish it all boils down to BAY MINUS BAITFISH = NO PREDATORS
[color=#006600]maroodt[/color] wrote:
Hi Maroodt
I wish it was that simple. There has been a lot of research into the ecosystem effects of trekking and it was found that it was not that significant.
I realise that people would like to think otherwise but that is the reality.
Interestingly enough there are other arguments that suggest that the fish injured in fishing operations serve as easy food to stimulate the growth of other populations.
Keep in mind that the trekkers are fairly ineffective. Watch how the fish escape through the vlerk when the current is too strong to allow it to be effectively hauled.
Be honest enough to ackowlege that you don't like the trekkers because you perceive them to be catching fish that you want to catch.
That's what user conflict is all about. That is why it is important for recreationals to sensationalise the death of a ray.
Sometimes we build our identity based on the people that we don't like. Resenting trekkers has been part of the False Bay lifestyle for centuries.
They were even accused of violating the beach apartheid rules by bringing coloured crew onto the pristing white sands of fish hoek beach.
There was such an uproar that the council provided little brass dog licences to the crew so that the police would know who was a crew member and who wasn't.
The death of the ray is sad. The death of any fish is sad.
The frantic flapping of the rays fins in the net becomes a gruesome perversion of its graceful flight in the water.
Be careful of these emotive arguments though becuase they can be directed against recreationals as easily as against commercials.
Spearfishing has given me that sense of regret that all hunters and fishers share. That moment of sadness where the fishes vbrant colours start to fade on death.
Hi Maroodt
I wish it was that simple. There has been a lot of research into the ecosystem effects of trekking and it was found that it was not that significant.
I realise that people would like to think otherwise but that is the reality.
Interestingly enough there are other arguments that suggest that the fish injured in fishing operations serve as easy food to stimulate the growth of other populations.
Keep in mind that the trekkers are fairly ineffective. Watch how the fish escape through the vlerk when the current is too strong to allow it to be effectively hauled.
Be honest enough to ackowlege that you don't like the trekkers because you perceive them to be catching fish that you want to catch.
That's what user conflict is all about. That is why it is important for recreationals to sensationalise the death of a ray.
Sometimes we build our identity based on the people that we don't like. Resenting trekkers has been part of the False Bay lifestyle for centuries.
They were even accused of violating the beach apartheid rules by bringing coloured crew onto the pristing white sands of fish hoek beach.
There was such an uproar that the council provided little brass dog licences to the crew so that the police would know who was a crew member and who wasn't.
The death of the ray is sad. The death of any fish is sad.
The frantic flapping of the rays fins in the net becomes a gruesome perversion of its graceful flight in the water.
Be careful of these emotive arguments though becuase they can be directed against recreationals as easily as against commercials.
Spearfishing has given me that sense of regret that all hunters and fishers share. That moment of sadness where the fishes vbrant colours start to fade on death.
Marthin
Sealiner
Altho this is off topic and i started this about treknetters, i think it has changed to false bay in general.
The 2 most immediate threats to this area in my uninformed opinion:
1. Pollution
2. The commercial shark fishing being allowed in false bay. The quantities i saw can not be sustainable fishing. Not a chance.
3. Commercial by-catch laws being way to lenient, allowing other species to be targetted.
The 2 most immediate threats to this area in my uninformed opinion:
1. Pollution
2. The commercial shark fishing being allowed in false bay. The quantities i saw can not be sustainable fishing. Not a chance.
3. Commercial by-catch laws being way to lenient, allowing other species to be targetted.
[color=#006600]tuna[/color] wrote:
Or the one that issues the permits? :lol:1 Is there anybody that can give us the actual impact on nature that treknetting causes.
@jb2 "Be honest enough to ackowlege that you don't like the trekkers because you perceive them to be catching fish that you want to catch." mate you got it all wrong making such a petty statement, my reason for not liking these guys is simple when i get told to get the fvck off their beach because myself and fellow anglers are in the way and if we didn't comply we would be made to comply well lets just say i will not be intimidated in any way what so ever granted this incident happened a couple of years ago, yes i understand these guys do this to earn a living and i'm not the type of person that would take the bread out of anyones mouth and yes recreationals (uneducated ones) do a helluva lot more damage in terms of littering ,bag limits, etc but at least they have respect for their fellow anglers and most of these guys clean up their acts after a nice little chat
One have to be careful to make this a white / coloured story. For me it is not about that. The problem I have with the whole "Netting" thing is this: We weekenders that catch fish with rod and reels / handlines are always the problem. We always 'rape' the ocean. But I do not feel that way. There are to many outside factors that decide when and how much fish we catch. But the "Netters" will 99% of the time catch fish. I have seen this where we catch tuna. On the fishfinder it shows alot of fish, but the water temp. or the wind or the barometer are against us. So no fish for us, but when those "Netters put down the nets, they will catch fish, even if the fish donot want to be caught. Another example. 2 or 3 years ago we were out at Yzerfontein looking for snoek. Fishfinder showed nice marks, here and there one or two come out. But nature was against us. Then there came big trawlers and put down their nets. All of them had alot of fish in their nets. We weekenders have to use special baits or lures in the hope to catch a fish. The netters just pull a net around the fish, eazy! In my view: Who rapes the ocean now? My 2c.
Hi Marthin!No offence,hope you won't be offended & hope we catch lots of fish together.
Firstly,with respect,this is your first & only Treknetting viewing observation experience. Am I right?Can you really base an overall universal opinion on one such observation?How many times have you fished False Bay & for how long?Do you honestly think you can call people hypocrites,maybe you're right & there are some, but there's many anglers,etc, down Strandfontein way on a daily basis,who see the undersized Cob,etc, in crates,and I'm inclined to listen to the masses & not 1 or 2 good reports on Treknetters.So,again I say with respect,If you had observed & have checked on a regular basis & on all species I'd be more convinced that so many others' coming to the fore with Treknetting complaints were wrong,including myself. Perhaps you were there on a good day for you for this one solitary observation opinion, although there were some goings on you didn't care for.
Again,no offence,but this treknetting issue has been going on for years,and that's why I ask what do you really know about Strandfontein & the treknetting?Why I say that,I've only got involved since hearing treknet complaints on Sealine,& since returning to fishing,now know the legal size you can catch & have seen undersized fish caught in nets,crated,& questioned it.Only to be shut down by treknetters.Now i can't bear to see the carnage nor the ill mannered mannerisms of the licence holder & his crew.And I'm not the only one that bears testament to this on Sealine or CTF.
I agree it's not just treknetters ruining fishing,and think all fishing should be investigated somehow.Having served time in Naval Projects,i heard about trawling on both sides of our coastal continent which also has affected fish population.
Regarding treknetting why did Treknet Licence holder,Naartjie, not comply with Angler Observation Checks as suggested by Meag at SASC,where all other Treknet Licence Holders have complied to accept proposals?It makes me wonder!
So,respectfully,I appreciate your opinion,but cannot accept just one solitary observation above what I've witnessed time & time again at Strandfontein,nor can I dispel the opinions of so many anglers on all angling sites who have seen similar illegalities arising.I'm not asking you to amend your opinion,I'm purely asking that you base assumptions on numerous observations,which will afford a more precise overall observation scenario,whether it be in favor of treknetters or not.Cheers!
Firstly,with respect,this is your first & only Treknetting viewing observation experience. Am I right?Can you really base an overall universal opinion on one such observation?How many times have you fished False Bay & for how long?Do you honestly think you can call people hypocrites,maybe you're right & there are some, but there's many anglers,etc, down Strandfontein way on a daily basis,who see the undersized Cob,etc, in crates,and I'm inclined to listen to the masses & not 1 or 2 good reports on Treknetters.So,again I say with respect,If you had observed & have checked on a regular basis & on all species I'd be more convinced that so many others' coming to the fore with Treknetting complaints were wrong,including myself. Perhaps you were there on a good day for you for this one solitary observation opinion, although there were some goings on you didn't care for.
Again,no offence,but this treknetting issue has been going on for years,and that's why I ask what do you really know about Strandfontein & the treknetting?Why I say that,I've only got involved since hearing treknet complaints on Sealine,& since returning to fishing,now know the legal size you can catch & have seen undersized fish caught in nets,crated,& questioned it.Only to be shut down by treknetters.Now i can't bear to see the carnage nor the ill mannered mannerisms of the licence holder & his crew.And I'm not the only one that bears testament to this on Sealine or CTF.
I agree it's not just treknetters ruining fishing,and think all fishing should be investigated somehow.Having served time in Naval Projects,i heard about trawling on both sides of our coastal continent which also has affected fish population.
Regarding treknetting why did Treknet Licence holder,Naartjie, not comply with Angler Observation Checks as suggested by Meag at SASC,where all other Treknet Licence Holders have complied to accept proposals?It makes me wonder!
So,respectfully,I appreciate your opinion,but cannot accept just one solitary observation above what I've witnessed time & time again at Strandfontein,nor can I dispel the opinions of so many anglers on all angling sites who have seen similar illegalities arising.I'm not asking you to amend your opinion,I'm purely asking that you base assumptions on numerous observations,which will afford a more precise overall observation scenario,whether it be in favor of treknetters or not.Cheers!
Marthin
Sealiner
Walt no offence taken.
Firstly regarding my post. I stated that it's the only observation i've ever made, and i can honestly say i stopped the car and waited for the net to come out for the soul purpose that i could take pictures of the wholesale carnage that was surely to come.
It didnt. I expected the steenbras to be whisked away, but in stead it was carried in 2 arms like a baby and released gently. I waited for the small kob to get taken, only to see a bystander try and grab the ones trying to swim out in the shallows that the netters released. They scolded him for it and he made a b-line. I expected the seebabers to be left to dry out in the sun as i've seen many of my co-anglers do, but even they were put back to eat my chokka bait another day. Up to this point i can honestly say it looked like sustainable fishing with a concervation mentality. (Please note in a later post i said i might have seen the 1 good day out of 1000 kak ones.)
The one query concern i voiced in my original post was ignored by all up to now. I do not know the commercial rights, bycatch laws etc. I saw that all elf were taken regardless of size, and some were what i would call "blades" about 20 - 25cm in length. I don't know if this is allowed bycatch or not, but i didnt like that at all.
I do not have any experience of the treknetters and what they do, and have very limited fishing experience of false bay. However i have been fishing since the age of 3. I have seen and posted pictures of what recreational anglers took out of the sea over the years. I have fished areas where no other recreational goes, and I have seen how beautiful the sea can be and how much life there can be if recreationals don't fish there every day.
The pictures of the yellowtail above are shocking. But no more so than when 5 recreational boats hit a shoal of tail off cape point.
Ask Wayne about Jacobsbaai and the recreationals when the geelbek were thick there 2 weeks ago. Catch and catch until the shoal is either gone or all lying on the beach. Not much different than trekking in my opinion. When MCM officers arrive only about 5 anglers stayed.
I'm not in favour of treknetting. I'm not in favour of any netting for that matter.
What i do think is that there are more serious issues at hand.
1 being the pollution
2 being the commercial shark fishing happening
3 lenient bycatch laws
4 educating normal recreationals. The empty pilchard boxes and wrappers, pieces of fishing line etc was not thrown there by the treknetters.
Finally. I feel that people are hypocrytes for the following reason.
1. Beach driving is illegal
2. Keeping undersize fish is illegal
3. Keeping more prawns that you may have is illegal
4. using undersize elf is illegal even if it is for bait
5. Treknetter not keeping to the regulations is illegal
6. Keeping more than your alloted quota recreational or commercial is illegal.
7. Buying bait from a source that doesnt have a permit to sell such bait is illegal.
Nowhere does it state one is more illegal than the other. If you don't do any of the 7 above, by all means scream klap and donner the ones that do. I'll even help if i can. For now i unfortunately have to say i've done a couple of the above.
Firstly regarding my post. I stated that it's the only observation i've ever made, and i can honestly say i stopped the car and waited for the net to come out for the soul purpose that i could take pictures of the wholesale carnage that was surely to come.
It didnt. I expected the steenbras to be whisked away, but in stead it was carried in 2 arms like a baby and released gently. I waited for the small kob to get taken, only to see a bystander try and grab the ones trying to swim out in the shallows that the netters released. They scolded him for it and he made a b-line. I expected the seebabers to be left to dry out in the sun as i've seen many of my co-anglers do, but even they were put back to eat my chokka bait another day. Up to this point i can honestly say it looked like sustainable fishing with a concervation mentality. (Please note in a later post i said i might have seen the 1 good day out of 1000 kak ones.)
The one query concern i voiced in my original post was ignored by all up to now. I do not know the commercial rights, bycatch laws etc. I saw that all elf were taken regardless of size, and some were what i would call "blades" about 20 - 25cm in length. I don't know if this is allowed bycatch or not, but i didnt like that at all.
I do not have any experience of the treknetters and what they do, and have very limited fishing experience of false bay. However i have been fishing since the age of 3. I have seen and posted pictures of what recreational anglers took out of the sea over the years. I have fished areas where no other recreational goes, and I have seen how beautiful the sea can be and how much life there can be if recreationals don't fish there every day.
The pictures of the yellowtail above are shocking. But no more so than when 5 recreational boats hit a shoal of tail off cape point.
Ask Wayne about Jacobsbaai and the recreationals when the geelbek were thick there 2 weeks ago. Catch and catch until the shoal is either gone or all lying on the beach. Not much different than trekking in my opinion. When MCM officers arrive only about 5 anglers stayed.
I'm not in favour of treknetting. I'm not in favour of any netting for that matter.
What i do think is that there are more serious issues at hand.
1 being the pollution
2 being the commercial shark fishing happening
3 lenient bycatch laws
4 educating normal recreationals. The empty pilchard boxes and wrappers, pieces of fishing line etc was not thrown there by the treknetters.
Finally. I feel that people are hypocrytes for the following reason.
1. Beach driving is illegal
2. Keeping undersize fish is illegal
3. Keeping more prawns that you may have is illegal
4. using undersize elf is illegal even if it is for bait
5. Treknetter not keeping to the regulations is illegal
6. Keeping more than your alloted quota recreational or commercial is illegal.
7. Buying bait from a source that doesnt have a permit to sell such bait is illegal.
Nowhere does it state one is more illegal than the other. If you don't do any of the 7 above, by all means scream klap and donner the ones that do. I'll even help if i can. For now i unfortunately have to say i've done a couple of the above.
Marthin
Sealiner
Again under hypocritical....
Wesley Rapson can swim a 60-70 plus kg ray as a swimbait for a zambezi. Nobody said a word.
Trophy did a post about using a ray as swimbait
"cut off the tail and barb" So much for release
http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=9230&forum_id=1&highlight=big+swimbait
Should a shark take this bait, the one wing will have a chomp in as per the pic, and the rest of the skate will be left flapping around in a circle till it dies or gets chowed. Earlier on this thread i read "poor animal, magnificent creature etc etc." If you put that kind of emotional bond to the animal, surely the above method of dying shouldnt appeal, and should show the same volume of discontent???
I don't find either wrong. One gets eaten by humans or get's used as bait for crayfish. One gets used as bait for sharks. Which one is wrong?
Wesley Rapson can swim a 60-70 plus kg ray as a swimbait for a zambezi. Nobody said a word.
Trophy did a post about using a ray as swimbait
"cut off the tail and barb" So much for release
http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=9230&forum_id=1&highlight=big+swimbait
Should a shark take this bait, the one wing will have a chomp in as per the pic, and the rest of the skate will be left flapping around in a circle till it dies or gets chowed. Earlier on this thread i read "poor animal, magnificent creature etc etc." If you put that kind of emotional bond to the animal, surely the above method of dying shouldnt appeal, and should show the same volume of discontent???
I don't find either wrong. One gets eaten by humans or get's used as bait for crayfish. One gets used as bait for sharks. Which one is wrong?
[color=#006600]Marthin[/color] wrote:
'Please note in a later post i said i might have seen the 1 good day out of 1000 kak ones.'
Respectfully,bear in mind that there's not only 1 trek but muliple treknetting throughout day.So,for statistic purposes, you didn't actually witness '1 good day' as mentioned,but 1 treknetting observation with undersized 'Elf' kept.Now multiply what was kept wrt species that shouldn't be kept by say 20 - 24 treks per week or more & check again.Pleased to hear about Steenbras, undersized cob being released, BUT perhaps these fish should be tagged to monitor their survival rate after laying under tons of fish & then being released back into ocean.Surely some damage must be done?And this should be a major concern. How can a person breathe & survive under 100s or 1000s of bodies & survive?Some may say fish are stronger & they'll need to be just that for survival.
I saw that all elf were taken regardless of size, and some were what i would call "blades" about 20 - 25cm in length.
I've seen cob about this size,definitely undersized & put in crates.
The pictures of the yellowtail above are shocking. But no more so than when 5 recreational boats hit a shoal of tail off cape point.
I've witnessed yellowtail carnage at fish hoek with fish thrown on each other in a pile higher than sand dunes itself.Say no more!
I'm not in favour of treknetting. I'm not in favour of any netting for that matter.
What i do think is that there are more serious issues at hand.
1 being the pollution
2 being the commercial shark fishing happening
3 lenient bycatch laws
4 educating normal recreationals. The empty pilchard boxes and wrappers, pieces of fishing line etc was not thrown there by the treknetters.
I'll stick with this Topic based on Treknetting here,and these pertaining issues would need attention via there own authorites who are supposed to be dealing with it.My perspective however is that all related issues should be covered all at same time & not unilaterally,and none should take predence above others.Easier said than done.
Finally. I feel that people are hypocrytes for the following reason.
1. Beach driving is illegal
2. Keeping undersize fish is illegal
3. Keeping more prawns that you may have is illegal
4. using undersize elf is illegal even if it is for bait
5. Treknetter not keeping to the regulations is illegal
6. Keeping more than your alloted quota recreational or commercial is illegal.
7. Buying bait from a source that doesnt have a permit to sell such bait is illegal.
Nowhere does it state one is more illegal than the other. If you don't do any of the 7 above, by all means scream klap and donner the ones that do. I'll even help if i can. For now i unfortunately have to say i've done a couple of the above.
Re: '7 Angling Sins' as above:We need to rely on the authorities to take action here,but we can make a difference in other ways.The route I've chosen is to make myself available to Meag at SASC & perhaps if others join in we'd 'Walk the talk & not talk the walk'.Cheers!
'Please note in a later post i said i might have seen the 1 good day out of 1000 kak ones.'
Respectfully,bear in mind that there's not only 1 trek but muliple treknetting throughout day.So,for statistic purposes, you didn't actually witness '1 good day' as mentioned,but 1 treknetting observation with undersized 'Elf' kept.Now multiply what was kept wrt species that shouldn't be kept by say 20 - 24 treks per week or more & check again.Pleased to hear about Steenbras, undersized cob being released, BUT perhaps these fish should be tagged to monitor their survival rate after laying under tons of fish & then being released back into ocean.Surely some damage must be done?And this should be a major concern. How can a person breathe & survive under 100s or 1000s of bodies & survive?Some may say fish are stronger & they'll need to be just that for survival.
I saw that all elf were taken regardless of size, and some were what i would call "blades" about 20 - 25cm in length.
I've seen cob about this size,definitely undersized & put in crates.
The pictures of the yellowtail above are shocking. But no more so than when 5 recreational boats hit a shoal of tail off cape point.
I've witnessed yellowtail carnage at fish hoek with fish thrown on each other in a pile higher than sand dunes itself.Say no more!
I'm not in favour of treknetting. I'm not in favour of any netting for that matter.
What i do think is that there are more serious issues at hand.
1 being the pollution
2 being the commercial shark fishing happening
3 lenient bycatch laws
4 educating normal recreationals. The empty pilchard boxes and wrappers, pieces of fishing line etc was not thrown there by the treknetters.
I'll stick with this Topic based on Treknetting here,and these pertaining issues would need attention via there own authorites who are supposed to be dealing with it.My perspective however is that all related issues should be covered all at same time & not unilaterally,and none should take predence above others.Easier said than done.
Finally. I feel that people are hypocrytes for the following reason.
1. Beach driving is illegal
2. Keeping undersize fish is illegal
3. Keeping more prawns that you may have is illegal
4. using undersize elf is illegal even if it is for bait
5. Treknetter not keeping to the regulations is illegal
6. Keeping more than your alloted quota recreational or commercial is illegal.
7. Buying bait from a source that doesnt have a permit to sell such bait is illegal.
Nowhere does it state one is more illegal than the other. If you don't do any of the 7 above, by all means scream klap and donner the ones that do. I'll even help if i can. For now i unfortunately have to say i've done a couple of the above.
Re: '7 Angling Sins' as above:We need to rely on the authorities to take action here,but we can make a difference in other ways.The route I've chosen is to make myself available to Meag at SASC & perhaps if others join in we'd 'Walk the talk & not talk the walk'.Cheers!
[color=#006600]Marthin[/color] wrote:
Can't recall having seen the above,but that may be a means to anglers spending more time practically in a cause than theoretically & getting nowhere.Sounds more promising than the inspectors which i brought up with MCM who couldn't read when my licence was registered or when it had expired.They took my reg date as expiry date & wanted to fine me,and also had to ask me to identify the species of a Cob rudy had laying behind his car's rear wheel.Where do they find these intellectuals who think IQ means getting in a queue for an Eye test?Regarding Meag at SASC,her proposal was to utilise anglers while on their way to or from Fishing & monitor catchings with the cooperation of treknet licence holder.With the right people,this could promote PR between angler & treknetter as plenty upheavals occur owing to misunderstandings, and this could break down the great divide that may exist between the 2.