Ethics in Lure making.

[tauruck]

Ethics, honesty and common human decency are everyday things.

I think the same applies to lure making and in this case copying someone else's work.

I design and build my own lures and I do not copy anyone else.

I'm a fairly creative person and I get a rush from coming up with new ideas.

To copy another man's work is an insult to both the originator and the immitator.

Here's a pic for the boys to look at.

The green lure is a Pencil from River2sea that someone sent me.

It's 200mm long.

The primered lure is my design and 300mm long.

The profiles are very different from the top, bottom and sides.

For anyone that had a suspicion, I think this clears things up.

 

[benniejordaan]

Wow Mikey,
You just made me feel kak. I have copied plenty spoons, lures and plugs in the past as well as some design features on poppers and other baits. We often look at other lures to get our inspiration from, which is why they look so similar in design.

But then I think all of us are guilty of it somewhere along the line.

 

[Nepptune]

Mikey you're just a copy cat mate, and you know it......
















HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Just kidding my brother.... I don't think anyone would ever have even imagined thinking you are unethical in any way shape or form... you are a wizard my friend, and I think I can safely say we are all honoured and stoked to have you here sharing your creations!

I look forward to seeing more of your work, and hopefully aquiring a few of your awesome pieces to put to work on the water!

 

[BigMatt]

looks good mikey!

obviously we need to look at other idea for inspiration. iv heard some of your plans and ideas and i know that its definately not immitation. you are the who is going to need to watch out for okes who are going to want to copy your lures...

BM

 

[Kumz]

Right On Mikey !!!

Good luck with your Lures !!!

 

[tauruck]

benniejordaan wrote:

Wow Mikey,
You just made me feel kak. I have copied plenty spoons, lures and plugs in the past as well as some design features on poppers and other baits. We often look at other lures to get our inspiration from, which is why they look so similar in design.

But then I think all of us are guilty of it somewhere along the line.

Getting inspiration or using design features is a long way away from taking a lure someone else built and molding it.

 

[steve m]

tauruck wrote:

Ethics, honesty and common human decency are everyday things.

I think the same applies to lure making and in this case copying someone else's work.

I design and build my own lures and I do not copy anyone else.

I'm a fairly creative person and I get a rush from coming up with new ideas.

To copy another man's work is an insult to both the originator and the immitator.

Here's a pic for the boys to look at.

The green lure is a Pencil from River2sea that someone sent me.

It's 200mm long.

The primered lure is my design and 300mm long.

The profiles are very different from the top, bottom and sides.

For anyone that had a suspicion, I think this clears things up.

Understatement of the year right there from the man who can make anything

 

[Windknot]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, counterfeighting is criminal. So take you pick, flattered or ripped off 

 

[tauruck]

Some okes on here are stirrers.

Their evil little scheme smacks of childish school yard stuff.

I'm not going to engage in anything be it via PM or otherwise.

PM's have been put in the open forum before.

Not my style.

If you don't like me or the way I conduct myself because I tell it like it is then tough.

 

 

[Kumz]

tauruck wrote:

Some okes on here are stirrers.

Their evil little scheme smacks of childish school yard stuff.

I'm not going to engage in anything be it via PM or otherwise.

PM's have been put in the open forum before.

Not my style.

If you don't like me or the way I conduct myself because I tell it like it is then tough.

 

.

 

[Andre Laas]

Hi Mikey

What you are saying is 100% spot on, but as Bennie said, many of us are tempted to copy some sort of sinker/lure that works well.

Copying lures for commercial reproduction is just downright nasty, and it is happening on a big scale.

But what about copying a common-shape spoon or sinker for personal use? Especially if that same spoon or sinker is sold at "unethical" prices? Look for instance at the pear sinker or plain v-back spoon. It is shapes that is known to work well, and there is hundreds of different suppliers etc. Is it still unethical to copy it for own use, especially if you know that what you pay R70+ for, can be made for less than R10 with the most basic equipment?

Another thing that I have been struggling with. What if you copy the shape of for instance a popper (basic shaped one - cylindrical lure with round cupped face) but proceed to make it with a totally different material with different properties in terms of weight and density that results in the completely different "behavior" from the original shape?

I think in many cases, it is unethical and unaffordable prices that creates the desire to copy the shape and make your own! Also, in SA, the difficulty of obtaining some lures will also play a role. my 2c

 

 

[shagnrelease]

I think its bull, and I am coming over to confiscate all of your plugs....please have them painted before I collect...:spite:spite

but on a serious note,most things are just variations on a theme, if its for your own personal use or for your a mate I dont see the harm in it, however for commercial use I dont think its right, as you will only produce it cheaper, as nobody copies things to make them more expensive?? and that then hits the market cheaper than the original and that effects the original designers income so its not the done thing.

there are a few snakes in the grass....

 

[neilg]

Critter wrote:

Hi Mikey
But what about copying a common-shape spoon or sinker for personal use? Especially if that same spoon or sinker is sold at "unethical" prices?
 

When it comes to sinkers and so forth, I believe they can be copied and used.

Look at it this way, you can buy moulds for them, from most fishing shops.

I'm gonna make my own mould to make sinkers, will save me and my friends a fortune !!!

 

[benniejordaan]

Maybe we should look at a CD for example. You buy the original and you can make 100 copies if you like, as long as it is for your own use, to store the original for safe keeping. But you cannot copy it for distribution. That said, if I buy a lure for a rediculous amount, is it wrong to make copies of it for myself? Just so I can keep the original safe...

 

[neilg]

Very valid point there Bennie - VERY VALID POINT.

 

[Andre Laas]

Eish Bennie, Great point!!!!!

 

[tauruck]

You guys are right.

You can buy molds for sinkers, spoons, jig heads almost everywhere.

The thing I was alluding to was taking a lure made by a big manufacturer and  copying it exactly and then retailing it.

The implications are frightening.

Can you imagine being dragged to court in a foreign country for copying a lure down to the finest detail.

There was a little confusion here.

I was asked to produce a mold from a lure and crank out multiple versions.

My client had bad info. He thought the lure was discontinued and there was "Open Season" on it.

I checked with the manufacturer and was told in no uncertain terms that the lure in question was the subject of a very heated court battle between two of the heavy weights in the fishing industry and that it was now protected. They hold the rights to the lure and it may not be copied.

I would love a trip to Las Vegas but not in cuffs.

Luckily I checked first.

One can build similar lures to anything out there because a lot of them look very similar anyway but if your copied lure fits their mold you will be in deep Poo.

 

[Jimi the Fish]

I like the DIY approach Mr Tauruck

 

[Windknot]

I believe that immitation requires a great deal of skill, talent and creativity as you are using observation and maybe some measurements to replicate something in the image of the original. Copying on the other hand requires a lot less skill and unless there is an explicit understanding that it is permissible, we can safely assume that its illegal. Ethics comes into it when the owner of the original will suffer harm as a result of the actions the other party. So to my mind when a creative genius like Mike creates his masterpieces, they may pay homage to whatever lure that it may loosely be based on but are original creations and cannot be confused with copies. Ethics do not enter into it at all, but when copies are made for sale its criminal and ethics have eliminated from the decision.

I admire Mikes concerns and his attitude because too many people tend to be flexible when it comes to ethics, Seeing as we cannot prescribe to others about ethics we can only look to our own behaviour and offer it as an example. So I appologize for taking the p1$$ out of you, but you will also notice that what I said before was actually serious commentary on the wide range of attitudes to this matter, so keep offering your positive example to all of us.

 

[tauruck]

Windknot wrote:

I believe that immitation requires a great deal of skill, talent and creativity as you are using observation and maybe some measurements to replicate something in the image of the original. Copying on the other hand requires a lot less skill and unless there is an explicit understanding that it is permissible, we can safely assume that its illegal. Ethics comes into it when the owner of the original will suffer harm as a result of the actions the other party. So to my mind when a creative genius like Mike creates his masterpieces, they may pay homage to whatever lure that it may loosely be based on but are original creations and cannot be confused with copies. Ethics do not enter into it at all, but when copies are made for sale its criminal and ethics have eliminated from the decision.

I admire Mikes concerns and his attitude because too many people tend to be flexible when it comes to ethics, Seeing as we cannot prescribe to others about ethics we can only look to our own behaviour and offer it as an example. So I appologize for taking the p1$$ out of you, but you will also notice that what I said before was actually serious commentary on the wide range of attitudes to this matter, so keep offering your positive example to all of us.

I didn't think you took the pi$$ at all. My reply wasn't directed at you.

I agree 100% with your post.

Thanks Windknot.