Ethics in Lure making.
- Thread starter tauruck
- Start date
Freakazoid
Senior Member
It is actually easier to go after somebody legally in South Africa than say in the States. Outside of Patent and design Registration you also have 3D copyright. South African copyright is of such a nature that you do not have to register, whereas in the US it costs a lot of money to register. So if you do copy somebodies lure in SA you are infringing on his Copyright. It is a much easier law to enforce since 3D copyright only takes shape and form into consideration. So if a lay person can say they look the same, you're are exposing yourself. That said, the intention of the copying is up to the judge to decide. Bennie, this applies to buying copies of say a Rapala lure from China and selling them in SA. This law is good for local product development as it protects us locally, but it also protects anybody selling a product locally.
Patents are easy to get around, 3D copyright is very difficult, especially with simple forms like a lure. We just had a customer who annihilated somebody who ripped him off based on 3D copyright. Even though the Patent was never infringed upon.
You will only get on the radar of a big company if you start taking market share anyway. The ethical side is up to you to decide. Fortunately for general business, you need to spend just as much money as they do on distribution and advertising so your lures will end up costing the same.
The cost of lures are obviously not just in the materials or making, but in shipping, insurance, distribution, advertising, shelf space, stock holding, R&D and a whole monster list of other things.
Mike, I think you're doing a great job. You're not pulling moulds from off-the-shelf items and you like putting your own creative flair into you lures. So go for it. I just wanted to get the technical side of copying on the table.
Patents are easy to get around, 3D copyright is very difficult, especially with simple forms like a lure. We just had a customer who annihilated somebody who ripped him off based on 3D copyright. Even though the Patent was never infringed upon.
You will only get on the radar of a big company if you start taking market share anyway. The ethical side is up to you to decide. Fortunately for general business, you need to spend just as much money as they do on distribution and advertising so your lures will end up costing the same.
The cost of lures are obviously not just in the materials or making, but in shipping, insurance, distribution, advertising, shelf space, stock holding, R&D and a whole monster list of other things.
Mike, I think you're doing a great job. You're not pulling moulds from off-the-shelf items and you like putting your own creative flair into you lures. So go for it. I just wanted to get the technical side of copying on the table.
Mikey, you are doing a great job and you showed that you are a true gentleman by creating this thread. There is nothing wrong with your ethics, brother. ::respekt:
Guys, just one question to clear things up. Will it be wrong for me to make a mould of a good lure and make my own version (with different colours etc.) for own use? There are already fakes on the market for half the price but they don't have the same action. I like the action of the original but want to experiment with different colour combinations. I say again, they would not be sold or distributed and are only for my own use.
Guys, just one question to clear things up. Will it be wrong for me to make a mould of a good lure and make my own version (with different colours etc.) for own use? There are already fakes on the market for half the price but they don't have the same action. I like the action of the original but want to experiment with different colour combinations. I say again, they would not be sold or distributed and are only for my own use.
benniejordaan
Sealiner
SAfish,
Eveyone is copying the Onde Onde already! Hehe.. Am I right?
Eveyone is copying the Onde Onde already! Hehe.. Am I right?
Andre Laas
Sealiner
benniejordaan wrote:
In terms of the 3d copyrights, this would actually mean that ANY lure that you create would infringe on some-ones 3d copyrights in terms of shape and form, as most lures are subtle variations of a general theme: "baitfish shape and form". It would also mean that the oldest producer of any type of lure in SA can go after any other maker that produces "similar" lures, even if their action in the water varies significantly?
LOL, I was wondering when this one would pop up!!!! There some identical copies of this lure floating around.... sure they will make for a perfect fit to the original mould!!!!!
In terms of the 3d copyrights, this would actually mean that ANY lure that you create would infringe on some-ones 3d copyrights in terms of shape and form, as most lures are subtle variations of a general theme: "baitfish shape and form". It would also mean that the oldest producer of any type of lure in SA can go after any other maker that produces "similar" lures, even if their action in the water varies significantly?
It maybe the Onda......it maybe not. 
I have some ideas with paint effects etc. and I need to use a lure design that work. It will be the only way to see if my colour creations work. I love to buy the normal chisel nose plugs and play around with different colours and modifications. My main problem at the moment is that the leeries are not taking anything I throw at them.
I have some ideas with paint effects etc. and I need to use a lure design that work. It will be the only way to see if my colour creations work. I love to buy the normal chisel nose plugs and play around with different colours and modifications. My main problem at the moment is that the leeries are not taking anything I throw at them.
Hi guys
I have just joined and catching up on all the comments, on lure copying and the fact you guys chat about jigheads a lot have you noticed how many local guys that supply on a commercial basis have copied the Berkley Nitro range shape maybe just changed a hook size / shape or whatever.
I have just joined and catching up on all the comments, on lure copying and the fact you guys chat about jigheads a lot have you noticed how many local guys that supply on a commercial basis have copied the Berkley Nitro range shape maybe just changed a hook size / shape or whatever.
Little Green Fish
Sealiner
Now being true to my inner :cens-up self, :rasta how this for an enigmatic question, I buy an original lure, and then strip the colours right off it whilst still driving home with my lorrie, get home and respray it completely whacked out colours, have I been a naughty boy or not?
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Little Green Fish wrote:
Once you paid for it it's yours! do as you please with it!
I agree with Bennie. I have bought a fair amount of plugs but none of them are standard anymore. I even drilled holes in plugs and inserted pellet gun pellets into them to change the weight distribution. I have a chisel nose plug that have "holes" for eyes. The plug had spend to much time on the surface and came back like a speed boat. I did not like the action and I filled the eye cavities with lead and the plugs action approved a lot. One of the lead "fillers" came out and it created a "wicked darting flip-flop skip job" action in the lure. It immediately attracted attention and I have caught a nice sized Leerie on it. I say experiment with the standard lures and plugs and add your personal mods to it.
Very old question to put things in prespective let me post a quote about another area first:
"12 Nov 2009 - Yesterday there appeared an interview with a Microsoft group manager who claimed that Microsoft copied the “Mac look and feel in terms of graphics†in Windows 7. This was later denied by Microsoft’s communications manager."
Everybody remmembers Apple Macintosh and the first Microsft Windows versions surely.
Just took this example to show my point and my questions are this:
a) You see a lure and there is something in the design that you thing would improve it, you make your own version.
b) You get inspiration from lures you've seen and fishing before, put your own ideas and reach a new design, but the roots of the design are similar.
Is this ethical ?
I'm not asking if it's patented or legal that is a total different matter.
An intresting reading about the legal aspect of what Mikey is refering (mould production from original copy) in SA is the Schultz v Butt 1986 court ruling about the Buttcat design:
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/1986/47.html
The legal implications of shaun2 question is simple:
"Anyone may ordinary make anything produced by another which is in the public domain: One may freely and exactly copy it without his leave and without payment of compensation."
I think the Berkley Nitro jigheads are also legalcopys of public domain lures, you can not pick up a public domain property and "make it your own" intelectual property, but you can copy it and in this case sell the final product.
P.S. - By the way this is a "lure copy proof of concept machine"
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/8oSMf_1nLqE&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
"12 Nov 2009 - Yesterday there appeared an interview with a Microsoft group manager who claimed that Microsoft copied the “Mac look and feel in terms of graphics†in Windows 7. This was later denied by Microsoft’s communications manager."
Everybody remmembers Apple Macintosh and the first Microsft Windows versions surely.
Just took this example to show my point and my questions are this:
a) You see a lure and there is something in the design that you thing would improve it, you make your own version.
b) You get inspiration from lures you've seen and fishing before, put your own ideas and reach a new design, but the roots of the design are similar.
Is this ethical ?
I'm not asking if it's patented or legal that is a total different matter.
An intresting reading about the legal aspect of what Mikey is refering (mould production from original copy) in SA is the Schultz v Butt 1986 court ruling about the Buttcat design:
http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/1986/47.html
The legal implications of shaun2 question is simple:
"Anyone may ordinary make anything produced by another which is in the public domain: One may freely and exactly copy it without his leave and without payment of compensation."
I think the Berkley Nitro jigheads are also legalcopys of public domain lures, you can not pick up a public domain property and "make it your own" intelectual property, but you can copy it and in this case sell the final product.
P.S. - By the way this is a "lure copy proof of concept machine"
[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/8oSMf_1nLqE&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]
There is a gr8 diff between making your own lures copied from shop/factory lures , cause it will never be 100% the same
But to try and rip RAPALA , or HEDDN or any company off by making replicas and selling them i believe is a rip off.
Then again we have crafty guys out ther like Bennie , look at his work , if it was my handy work and i was to be un-employed i would sell them. Pure SOUTH aFRICAN and spares available.
Come on guys , its not a crime nor conscience issue.
If a guy loves doing what he does - let him be. At least he is not copying and selling CD's and or DVD's.
But to try and rip RAPALA , or HEDDN or any company off by making replicas and selling them i believe is a rip off.
Then again we have crafty guys out ther like Bennie , look at his work , if it was my handy work and i was to be un-employed i would sell them. Pure SOUTH aFRICAN and spares available.
Come on guys , its not a crime nor conscience issue.
If a guy loves doing what he does - let him be. At least he is not copying and selling CD's and or DVD's.
tackle whore
Senior Member
komodo poppers are copied by 6 companies- still trying to get you original ones fedu . carpenter,fisherman,evergreen,smith, sevenseas,yozuri, are all copied by international companies, see there is a guy copying orions again in australia at the moment.