If you are a serious big carp angler, fishing the
- Thread starter MadCarper
- Start date
[color=#006600]BigCarpio[/color] wrote:
You are very far amiss if you interpreted that as a threat, anyone with minimal linguistic acumen will know that, put in the inquisitive form it conforms to an invite. Now how's that for high falutin' English?
But it served the purpose to illustrate your bravado as nothing more than hot air. I do not suffer fools lightly. And cowards even less so.
You are very far amiss if you interpreted that as a threat, anyone with minimal linguistic acumen will know that, put in the inquisitive form it conforms to an invite. Now how's that for high falutin' English?
But it served the purpose to illustrate your bravado as nothing more than hot air. I do not suffer fools lightly. And cowards even less so.
critter, perhaps I am a more hardened environmentalist and as you have said to BC, if you truly believe in something you fight to the end. Contrary to the popular belief of the carpaccios and bassterds, I too enjoy fishing for bass and carp and do not wish to see them entirely eradicated (however, unlike you I believe it should be possible). But I do not want to see my angling pleasure be protected at all costs if it is to the detriment of the environment. A matter of priorities I guess.
Like yourself, I also believe in efducating and getting public support. But I feel equally strongl that education should bring across that invasive species management and the associated risks is a many faceted discipline that we are only beginning to scratch the surface of. We should have learned the lessons of bull-in-a-china-shop approaches that went wrong as far as management of damage causing animals are concerned, and the impacts that that has had on ecosystem functioning. We should be cautious about duplicating these mistakes simply because catching big fish is an enjoyable sport.
Damn, I'd better shut up. I'm preaching now.
Like yourself, I also believe in efducating and getting public support. But I feel equally strongl that education should bring across that invasive species management and the associated risks is a many faceted discipline that we are only beginning to scratch the surface of. We should have learned the lessons of bull-in-a-china-shop approaches that went wrong as far as management of damage causing animals are concerned, and the impacts that that has had on ecosystem functioning. We should be cautious about duplicating these mistakes simply because catching big fish is an enjoyable sport.
Damn, I'd better shut up. I'm preaching now.
Ok, So how many times must I then apologise for being a carp angler? You have a specimen carp fishing forum. I spent the last 2 days defending myself and my way of fishing on this forum, instead of talking about fishing. Why have a specimen carp forum on this website, if you are against it? GTZA, you clearly said you are against releasing big carp...and that is unfortunately against what we do.... you say the bigger the female carp the more spawn etc, but as far as I understand carp over a certain age/weight do not reproduce anymore as their reproductive systems stop working... ?
I've also obviously been misunderstood and now been labelled a "know-it-all", "elite" etc... and yes skrops, if things carry on like this my style of fishing will be a "dying breed"...
It is unfortunate that this is how things have turned out, partly my fault yes, but I am not the only one to blame. I wasnt exactly made to feel welcome either... But nevertheless, for what its worth, I apologise for some of the things I've said. If you knew me in person you'd see I am not the type of person you think I am.
Thanks to Ryan and Critter with whom I had an interest discussion about carp....
Now I must really go.
Tight lines all.
I've also obviously been misunderstood and now been labelled a "know-it-all", "elite" etc... and yes skrops, if things carry on like this my style of fishing will be a "dying breed"...
It is unfortunate that this is how things have turned out, partly my fault yes, but I am not the only one to blame. I wasnt exactly made to feel welcome either... But nevertheless, for what its worth, I apologise for some of the things I've said. If you knew me in person you'd see I am not the type of person you think I am.
Thanks to Ryan and Critter with whom I had an interest discussion about carp....
Now I must really go.
Tight lines all.
BC, a quick reply as I see you are still online and I also have to go, albeit not gone forever. Nobody expects you to apologise for being a carp angler. Everyone here is an angler, we only differ in our targets and methods - and opinions of course. But we are individuals. Anyone who knows me will know that if you talk down to me, or if you proclaim anything that may have environmental detriment I will let off a full salvo.
In short, if you want to trade opinions/information etc. we are all into that. With some good-natured bantering thrown in. But if you scrapping for a fight - let's tango.
In short, if you want to trade opinions/information etc. we are all into that. With some good-natured bantering thrown in. But if you scrapping for a fight - let's tango.
G
Guest
Guest
Guys,
I am a specimen angler (like BC, whom I know) and have to agree. Maybe Sealine should change this forum to "Carp" forum and not have specimen liked to it. Unfortunatly anything said here against what we believe in also get our "gaskets" blown.
To tell you the truth - if BC decides to leave for good would be a loss to any specimen forum. I have come to know everyone else (Ryan, Critter, GTZa etc) through other posts.
Due to the nature of the way I participate in my angling facet I have to say I stand with BC. I can handel the banter (and had to endure it on many occasions
).
Last thought - what would be left for a freshwater angler if al alien species are gone?
I am a specimen angler (like BC, whom I know) and have to agree. Maybe Sealine should change this forum to "Carp" forum and not have specimen liked to it. Unfortunatly anything said here against what we believe in also get our "gaskets" blown.
To tell you the truth - if BC decides to leave for good would be a loss to any specimen forum. I have come to know everyone else (Ryan, Critter, GTZa etc) through other posts.
Due to the nature of the way I participate in my angling facet I have to say I stand with BC. I can handel the banter (and had to endure it on many occasions
).Last thought - what would be left for a freshwater angler if al alien species are gone?
Hi Jacques,
Sorry bud I don't want it to sound like I am attacking you now.
But nobody has ever mentioned total eradication of Carp or any other Aleins just more control and understanding that they do cause damage to ecosystems.
I am guilty of releasing carp - I hate seeing animals suffer. But if one could meet a happy medium where lets say one could justify releasing a 10KG+ SPecimen in return for removing the same weight if not more in small ones - this would be a more amicable compromise. After all as it has been preached so much it takes years for fish to reach that size and after a certain weight they stop breeding (I am not a fish biologist so I will not quote this as being fact).
Are ther soloutions - yes I belive there are. But in order to attain these there needs to be open debate from all affected parties - law makers, land owners, anglers etc etc. One proposal I have other than keeping small fish.
But what if one could come up with a easy way(And safe both for the angler) to steralise these big specimens to ensure that they donot over populate a body of water - I mean they do it with Grass carp and they seem to live happily.
Anyways - I am no expert but there must be alternatives and there must be a common middle ground for all parites.
It makes me very sad to see the likes of yourself and what you have done for this forum bailin on us. I have always enjoyed your posts and information and although I donot actively partake in speciemn currently I love reading the various facets of angling throughout.
Please agian reconsider before you bail, I enjoy the info, debate and taking the piss(from time to time)................
Sorry bud I don't want it to sound like I am attacking you now.
But nobody has ever mentioned total eradication of Carp or any other Aleins just more control and understanding that they do cause damage to ecosystems.
I am guilty of releasing carp - I hate seeing animals suffer. But if one could meet a happy medium where lets say one could justify releasing a 10KG+ SPecimen in return for removing the same weight if not more in small ones - this would be a more amicable compromise. After all as it has been preached so much it takes years for fish to reach that size and after a certain weight they stop breeding (I am not a fish biologist so I will not quote this as being fact).
Are ther soloutions - yes I belive there are. But in order to attain these there needs to be open debate from all affected parties - law makers, land owners, anglers etc etc. One proposal I have other than keeping small fish.
But what if one could come up with a easy way(And safe both for the angler) to steralise these big specimens to ensure that they donot over populate a body of water - I mean they do it with Grass carp and they seem to live happily.
Anyways - I am no expert but there must be alternatives and there must be a common middle ground for all parites.
It makes me very sad to see the likes of yourself and what you have done for this forum bailin on us. I have always enjoyed your posts and information and although I donot actively partake in speciemn currently I love reading the various facets of angling throughout.
Please agian reconsider before you bail, I enjoy the info, debate and taking the piss(from time to time)................
Andre Laas
Sealiner
Andre Laas
Sealiner
[color=#006600]Ryan[/color] wrote:
Hahahahaha
I would love to see our yellows, barbs, bream and barbel take a stand against the "outlanders" Viva South Africa Viva!!!
Hahahahaha
I would love to see our yellows, barbs, bream and barbel take a stand against the "outlanders" Viva South Africa Viva!!!
Andre Laas
Sealiner
[color=#006600]BigCarpio[/color] wrote:
Yes, I am aware that there are reports on large female carp exhibiting retarded or arrested reproductive activity. Unfortunately, I am not well informed on the reproductive physiology of fish in general, or carp in particular. It is well known that in most mammal species the number of ova are determined at birth and when these are depleted, ovulation and the menstrual cycle ceases (menopause). However, this does not mean that the animal will live happily ever after in sterile mode as the fertile period of the animal usually exceeds the natural expected life span of the animal in its natural environs. In the case of introduced alien species, they exist in (alien to them) transformed ecosystems and I would certainly not be comfortable in predicting the reproductive dynamics under these conditions.
OK BC, I'm back with time to respond properly. Nobody said that we are against specimen angling. I for one would have considered taking it up if I had time to do so. I have read Jacques' hilarious write up on what you need to become a specimen angler and thoroughly enjoyed it. But I do take umbrage to personal attacks and snide remarks for not sharing your persistence in contributing to an ever spiralling invasive species problem for no reason other than to ensure a continuous supply of big fish. Unlike what you preach, I believe that there is room for existence of all interest groups AND the sustainable practise of their favourite passtimes. I also believe in compromise but when compromise does not benefit both sides of the equation, it becomes capitulation. And that is something our environment cannot afford. Nevertheless, I would fully support any initiative to find a compromise that would allow release of any species provided it can be catered for within the context of responsible environmental management. More about this later.
Yes, I am aware that there are reports on large female carp exhibiting retarded or arrested reproductive activity. Unfortunately, I am not well informed on the reproductive physiology of fish in general, or carp in particular. It is well known that in most mammal species the number of ova are determined at birth and when these are depleted, ovulation and the menstrual cycle ceases (menopause). However, this does not mean that the animal will live happily ever after in sterile mode as the fertile period of the animal usually exceeds the natural expected life span of the animal in its natural environs. In the case of introduced alien species, they exist in (alien to them) transformed ecosystems and I would certainly not be comfortable in predicting the reproductive dynamics under these conditions.
[color=#006600]Jacques[/color] wrote:
It would certainly be a loss as I am sure he has a lot to offer and that many Sealine members can benefit from his knowledge. But in all fairness, he is the one continually threatening to leave because he acnnot get his way. A little like the schoolboy threatening to take his ball and go home, no?
[color=#006600]Ryan[/color] wrote:
Now this is what healthy debate and finding compromise is all about. And Ryan is quite correct about using technology such as inbred sterility as a means to ensure a supply of big fish to cater for the angler while at the same time safeguarding the environment against uncontrolled consequential damage.
Here's a thought: Why don't the specimen angling component initiate a research project to investigate the feasibility of inbred triploidy as a means to control carp breeding in natural systems and thus render a population of sterile triploid fish for catch and release bu specimen anglers?
Who will pay? An arrangement with tackle dealers offering a discount on tackle in return for an undertaking by specimen anglers to buy from the designated tackle dealers. The discounted funds go to funding the research and both anglers and dealers benefit without really being out of pocket.
Just a quick off-the-top-of-the-head suggestion that I am sure could be improved on. The point is, we need to begin somewhere.
Now this is what healthy debate and finding compromise is all about. And Ryan is quite correct about using technology such as inbred sterility as a means to ensure a supply of big fish to cater for the angler while at the same time safeguarding the environment against uncontrolled consequential damage.
Here's a thought: Why don't the specimen angling component initiate a research project to investigate the feasibility of inbred triploidy as a means to control carp breeding in natural systems and thus render a population of sterile triploid fish for catch and release bu specimen anglers?
Who will pay? An arrangement with tackle dealers offering a discount on tackle in return for an undertaking by specimen anglers to buy from the designated tackle dealers. The discounted funds go to funding the research and both anglers and dealers benefit without really being out of pocket.
Just a quick off-the-top-of-the-head suggestion that I am sure could be improved on. The point is, we need to begin somewhere.
