First up lets clear the decks on this regarding ro

J

Johan S

Senior Member
realdeal wrote:
we will get to some other rod facts later but for now i'd like to make sure that everyone understands that carbon fibre and graphite referred to in rod blanks are the same thing. next up we can look at how and why different rods are indeed so different but still being carbon fibre.
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Well, I'd really like to know what the differences are in materials/processes used to manufacture HMG and HMC rods, and what the difference in blank properties are.

Hooked, maybe you can help as well. I've read about the results of your tests with the AFAWs, and it is astonishing. But how does the material differ from that of HMG blanks?
 
M

Maestro

Senior Member
realdeal wrote:
second up lets clear the bloodydecks to the source of the post. yes a lot of the material was copied and pasted. i did not for one moment doubt that some internet searches would be conducted and that does not detract from the facts so i was well aware that this would crop up. when you say the size for a galjoen must be 35cm do you quote the source and the article of the legislation in which it is published? it's not necessary on a forum such as this as this is not a scientific thesis this is directed towards consumers in the SA market.

i do however actually know when i copy pasted what i was talking about...
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Great stuff..thanks for clearing the 'bloodydeck, for admitting that it was cut & pasted, and for admitting that the 'scientific' facts presented was actually a research conducted by a company(think its called 'Zipp' that manufactures 'CARBON FIBRE' bicycle parts,(which was scholarly omitted), & for informing us that the info was from a forum/site which also expresses views that indicate that there does exist differences between the two materials..i think its rodbuilding.org)...great job
 
Whaler

Whaler

Sealiner
Maestro wrote:
realdeal wrote:
second up lets clear the bloodydecks to the source of the post. yes a lot of the material was copied and pasted. i did not for one moment doubt that some internet searches would be conducted and that does not detract from the facts so i was well aware that this would crop up. when you say the size for a galjoen must be 35cm do you quote the source and the article of the legislation in which it is published? it's not necessary on a forum such as this as this is not a scientific thesis this is directed towards consumers in the SA market.

i do however actually know when i copy pasted what i was talking about...
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Great stuff..thanks for clearing the 'bloodydeck, for admitting that it was cut & pasted, and for admitting that the 'scientific' facts presented was actually a research conducted by a company that manufactures bicycle parts,which was scholarly omitted...great job
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I would like a 16speed racing 14 ft HMG rod please!lol::S::S
 
A

AndriesH

Sealiner
Come-on relax guys.

@ realdeal.
Thanks for trying to contribute here, allthough your methods may have upset some guys.
Please don't stop the info now, I'd also like to know what's what when it comes to fishing tackle.

If your info needs validation, post a link of sorts or tell us what your background is please.
Who knows: for all we know you could be Mr graphite himself.
 
H

Hooked

Senior Member
I dont know who Realdeal is but I do think he is only here to upset some of the members of this forum.

Carbon fibre and Graphite are two different materials with two different properties.I have never subscribed to this high modulus thing as that is just a unit of measurement.

We all know that that come from the same base material and are " baked " at different tempretures to achieve two different substances.Realdeal would like you to think that they the same substance but they do in fact have completely different properties.

If you take some sugar and put it in a pan and melt it you get one substance ( syrup I think :) ) , if you take sugar and throw it in an oven at 200 deg you get something else entirley.Basically realdeal would like you to refer to both of these sugar results by the same name ie : toffee whilst in fact they would look different , taste different and in fact , be different.

Hope this helps someone

 
 
M

Maestro

Senior Member
Alternatively,to simplify the issue,if you had a choice,would you rather be hit on the head with a carbon fibre or graphite rod? OR, alternatively, consider both as 1 and be hit with both at the same time? Choose wisely (Note: this experiment should only be conducted in a condusive and monitored environment,preferably at room temperature)
 
H

Hooked

Senior Member
Maestro wrote:
Alternatively,to simplify the issue,if you had a choice,would you rather be hit on the head with a carbon fibre or graphite rod? OR, alternatively, consider both as 1 and be hit with both at the same time?
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Here is another thought for you .If Carbon and Graphite are the same thing and the only difference is that the one is baked at a higher temp than the other why do we call a diamond  a diamond and not carbon as well.The only real difference is heat and pressure.
 
S

skrops

Sealiner
Hooked wrote:
I dont know who Realdeal is but I do think he is only here to upset some of the members of this forum.

Carbon fibre and Graphite are two different materials with two different properties.I have never subscribed to this high modulus thing as that is just a unit of measurement.

We all know that that come from the same base material and are " baked " at different tempretures to achieve two different substances.Realdeal would like you to think that they the same substance but they do in fact have completely different properties.

If you take some sugar and put it in a pan and melt it you get one substance ( syrup I think :) ) , if you take sugar and throw it in an oven at 200 deg you get something else entirley.Basically realdeal would like you to refer to both of these sugar results by the same name ie : toffee whilst in fact they would look different , taste different and in fact , be different.

Hope this helps someone

 
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thanks Hooked, are you refering the Graphite fibre, i.e a graphite rod? if so why do these guys say the following or rather then what do they mean by that: quote from previous page(I copied and pasted)

There has been many questions as to whether or not the rod blank is ‘graphite’ or ‘carbon fibre’. In fact, carbon fibre and graphite fibre are really one in the same. For years engineers, sales people, and technologists have debated what exactly to call the material as Andrew Marshall points out in his book Composite Basics, “(from the inception)…the scientists involved could not seem to agree on exactly what it was they were producing, some calling it “carbon fibre”, while other equally qualified authorities termed it, “graphite fibre.”
 
A

AndriesH

Sealiner
Hooked wrote:
I dont know who Realdeal is but I do think he is only here to upset some of the members of this forum.
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I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to own up.

Realdeal has put his YKW on the block by stating he knows what he is talking about regarding fishing rods and materials, so hopefully he will own up - very soon.
 
S

skrops

Sealiner
Hooked wrote:
Maestro wrote:
Alternatively,to simplify the issue,if you had a choice,would you rather be hit on the head with a carbon fibre or graphite rod? OR, alternatively, consider both as 1 and be hit with both at the same time?
Click to expand...
Here is another thought for you .If Carbon and Graphite are the same thing and the only difference is that the one is baked at a higher temp than the other why do we call a diamond  a diamond and not carbon as well.The only real difference is heat and pressure.
Click to expand...
then please help us understand and explain what is the difference between Graphite fibres and Carbon fibres.^^..
 
H

Hooked

Senior Member
skrops wrote:
Hooked wrote:
I dont know who Realdeal is but I do think he is only here to upset some of the members of this forum.

Carbon fibre and Graphite are two different materials with two different properties.I have never subscribed to this high modulus thing as that is just a unit of measurement.

We all know that that come from the same base material and are " baked " at different tempretures to achieve two different substances.Realdeal would like you to think that they the same substance but they do in fact have completely different properties.

If you take some sugar and put it in a pan and melt it you get one substance ( syrup I think :) ) , if you take sugar and throw it in an oven at 200 deg you get something else entirley.Basically realdeal would like you to refer to both of these sugar results by the same name ie : toffee whilst in fact they would look different , taste different and in fact , be different.

Hope this helps someone

 
Click to expand...

thanks Hooked, are you refering the Graphite fibre, i.e a graphite rod? if so why do these guys say the following or rather then what do they mean by that: quote from previous page(I copied and pasted)

There has been many questions as to whether or not the rod blank is ‘graphite’ or ‘carbon fibre’. In fact, carbon fibre and graphite fibre are really one in the same. For years engineers, sales people, and technologists have debated what exactly to call the material as Andrew Marshall points out in his book Composite Basics, “(from the inception)…the scientists involved could not seem to agree on exactly what it was they were producing, some calling it “carbon fibre”, while other equally qualified authorities termed it, “graphite fibre.”
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Hiya Skrops , Please follow the link and read the glossary.I tend to believe the opinion of someone who makes F1 components over the opinion of someone I dont know

http://www.komprex.com/Glossary/index.htm

Then follow the links from that site and see what else they make
 
Marthin

Marthin

Sealiner
Hooked glad to see you again.

I also thought of this one you said above.

Both a diamond and a piece of antrasite is the same thing as far as i know or pretty close to, one has just been heated more at a higher pressure.

But they don't have the same characteristics.
 
A

AndriesH

Sealiner
@ Hooked,
You've got a bee in your bonnet and it's getting ugly.
Maybe you should stop digging a hole for yourself and try to add value to this thread.

The moment the word FIBER comes into context, then, and only then can you start differentiating between the constituant differences between carbon and graphite.

Untill such a time - They are molecularly IDENTICAL. The diferences in properties are achieved by the temperature treatment of the material that results in different crystaline structures, in the material.
 
S

strandloper

Senior Member
AndriesH wrote:
Hooked wrote:
I dont know who Realdeal is but I do think he is only here to upset some of the members of this forum.
Click to expand...
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to own up.

Realdeal has put his YKW on the block by stating he knows what he is talking about regarding fishing rods and materials, so hopefully he will own up - very soon.
Click to expand...

I am with AndriesH on this one....

Give Realdeal a chance to give us the facts.  If he is right and knows his stuff we can all learn, if he is only trying to upset guys or pickinga fight, he has just succeeded in doing so!

Let him speak and then the guys that does have the knowledge can debate and we can all learn!!!!::balance:

I know NOTHING of graphite/carbon except that my wife's bike is made of it and it is very strong and light compared to my old steel frame!

I would like to learn more (as I think others would). Be it from Real Deal or AndriesH or any other member that knows way more about these things than me! ^^..

If I am gonna spend money on a new rod, I want to know what I am buying.

 
 
Whaler

Whaler

Sealiner
realdeal wrote:
second up lets clear the bloodydecks to the source of the post. yes a lot of the material was copied and pasted. i did not for one moment doubt that some internet searches would be conducted and that does not detract from the facts so i was well aware that this would crop up. when you say the size for a galjoen must be 35cm do you quote the source and the article of the legislation in which it is published? it's not necessary on a forum such as this as this is not a scientific thesis this is directed towards consumers in the SA market.

i do however actually know when i copy pasted what i was talking about and that's why the contenders to this post is going to have some difficulty in disproving any of these facts. i'm not re-inventing the wheel i will rather build on the facts that are commonly out there - not going to redraft documents for existing scientific facts to be able to say that it is my own work. i'm not about to reperform the scientific research done in this regard already nor do i have the budget to do this.

The facts are simple "carbon fibre" and "graphite" as referred to in rod blanks are the same thing. You cannot say one rod is carbon fibre and the other is graphite as they are one and the same. HMC and HMG are abbreviations used by rod manufacturers or assemblers as i like to see it as seldomly do they manufacture the blanks themselves. I'm not here to prove my point this is simply scientific facts so i'm happy to regurgitate what is commonly known in scientific fields.

we will get to some other rod facts later but for now i'd like to make sure that everyone understands that carbon fibre and graphite referred to in rod blanks are the same thing. next up we can look at how and why different rods are indeed so different but still being carbon fibre.

what i do like is the way i've been challenged...someone is going to walk out of the room hurt and it's not going to be me because i ACTUALLY know what i'm talking about
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You might know something about carbon, graphite or whatever you want to call it! but it is clear that you know jack sh1t about forums! if you want to be taken seriously you should introduce yourself and explain your field of expertiese! then you will be taken seriously, let us know who you are and DONT make threats on a public forum, you might be threatening Jack the ripper for all you know!lol this is a fery interesting subject and one i'm very interested in, i realy hope you are not going to turn in to another Zebra!

Regards

Whaler
 
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