HuntaGrunt
Member
Hi Houtarm,
I am plugging for them from the side. Hitting the Transkei points looking for the big ones.
I am plugging for them from the side. Hitting the Transkei points looking for the big ones.
Artificial Lure Angling in East London and surrounding area's.
- Thread starter clinton stanford
- Start date
Cool I'm by no means an expert in this facet and don't know the area at all, hope some of the more knowledgeable ous will help you out. I caught my first few yellowtail from the side in Jan/Feb this year, used an Finnor LT 60 with 50lb braid. My biggest fish was an 8kg so probably not the class fish your after though. I'd just think your arm will get tired very quickly plugging with an gosa 10000. My arms were falling off after an weekend spinning on the rocks with the LT60 and Adrenalin Rugged Extreme 12ft.
HuntaGrunt
Member
Thanks Houtarm,
Yes i definately noted the weight of my setup, i think the gosa 10 should be similar in weight to the lethal possibly a few oz heavier. Reason for going so heavy is simply that our eastern cape tail get fairly large and spinning from the bricks, pulling the fish towards structure i figured that extra power could come in handy as they are beasts.
So i am wondering if i could handle the big ones, Say 15 to 20kg on a 6000 gosa or stradic. It would make spinning the entire day that much easier as at this rate im gna get built just spinning lol
Thanks again houtarm
Yes i definately noted the weight of my setup, i think the gosa 10 should be similar in weight to the lethal possibly a few oz heavier. Reason for going so heavy is simply that our eastern cape tail get fairly large and spinning from the bricks, pulling the fish towards structure i figured that extra power could come in handy as they are beasts.
So i am wondering if i could handle the big ones, Say 15 to 20kg on a 6000 gosa or stradic. It would make spinning the entire day that much easier as at this rate im gna get built just spinning lol
Thanks again houtarm
HuntaGrunt
Member
Kenty,
Your right about the shad, they are full up at the moment and there have even been a few leerie around too. Not taking plugs but bucktail has been working.
Your right about the shad, they are full up at the moment and there have even been a few leerie around too. Not taking plugs but bucktail has been working.
HuntaGrunt
Member
Thanks Houtarm,
yes sadly season is passing for them this side.
Well your already doing better than me, i have made countless trips with little to no success with regard to tail. Good luck though and well done on the 8kg tail. thats an awsome catch nonetheless.
yes sadly season is passing for them this side.
Well your already doing better than me, i have made countless trips with little to no success with regard to tail. Good luck though and well done on the 8kg tail. thats an awsome catch nonetheless.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
HuntaGrunt wrote:
Up the east coast you want a multiplier and quality/tough 0.55 mono and good 1mm to 1.2mm mono, then you in with a good fighting chance..Gosa 10000 will do but 60lb, ja if a "strong" 60lb that tests higher and be prepared to loose many fish if you find them..until you on the mono, things more in your favour then..
Anything over 6kg will clean you up proper most times unless really lucky if a 5000/6000 size shimmy but you'd also fish 20-30lb on those rigs too and lighter leader..leerie setups, on a 10000 you'd be fine but the line to need to land those things is like casting a rope..there is a reason the tail specialists use a winch and bungee
ie..mono and multiplier. They cast those heavy rigs all day as they are ergonomic and actually quite light and cast WAY further than I ever did with that rope and a grinder. Accuracy when it matters, there is a reason all the bass pros use baitcasters over grinders..
Anyway.
Up the east coast you want a multiplier and quality/tough 0.55 mono and good 1mm to 1.2mm mono, then you in with a good fighting chance..Gosa 10000 will do but 60lb, ja if a "strong" 60lb that tests higher and be prepared to loose many fish if you find them..until you on the mono, things more in your favour then..
Anything over 6kg will clean you up proper most times unless really lucky if a 5000/6000 size shimmy but you'd also fish 20-30lb on those rigs too and lighter leader..leerie setups, on a 10000 you'd be fine but the line to need to land those things is like casting a rope..there is a reason the tail specialists use a winch and bungee
ie..mono and multiplier. They cast those heavy rigs all day as they are ergonomic and actually quite light and cast WAY further than I ever did with that rope and a grinder. Accuracy when it matters, there is a reason all the bass pros use baitcasters over grinders.. Anyway.
Attachments
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
If I tell you how many I have lost on braid you'd cry..
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
You want a 10 ft rod, graphite or carbon composite preferably not HMG and 2-4 oz and a very short butt and a bar in your rod bucket for resting the rod up against when plugging and for jamming the rod against when a fish is on..
Best casting reel I have used is the grandwave 40 (for me with trainer wheels - magnets), my mate swears by the new age shimanos, torium etc. with no modification except clean and oiled bearings, others swear by the BG or newer daiwas. He will seriously outcast anyone except a competition caster with a daiwa or shimano and a 2oz plug and thick line! 10 ft is the sweet spot to cast far and fight fish and use all day long without fatigue..ja a 12ft will leave you feeling beat up casting all day! Once you master a floating spool you will never go back to a grinder for most tasks..
Also a grinder is not going to get you respect from the old pros and you'll have to wait for the k@k days for a spot on the prime rocks..If you rock up with the appropriate gear they are much more welcoming..If you rock up with the appropriate gear and everyone is on the light grinder sticks, you can show how its really done..Not to bash a grinder but the truth is also that a plug has a better action with mono too.
Thats all you gonna get out of me today
Best casting reel I have used is the grandwave 40 (for me with trainer wheels - magnets), my mate swears by the new age shimanos, torium etc. with no modification except clean and oiled bearings, others swear by the BG or newer daiwas. He will seriously outcast anyone except a competition caster with a daiwa or shimano and a 2oz plug and thick line! 10 ft is the sweet spot to cast far and fight fish and use all day long without fatigue..ja a 12ft will leave you feeling beat up casting all day! Once you master a floating spool you will never go back to a grinder for most tasks..
Also a grinder is not going to get you respect from the old pros and you'll have to wait for the k@k days for a spot on the prime rocks..If you rock up with the appropriate gear they are much more welcoming..If you rock up with the appropriate gear and everyone is on the light grinder sticks, you can show how its really done..Not to bash a grinder but the truth is also that a plug has a better action with mono too.
Thats all you gonna get out of me today
HuntaGrunt
Member
Thank you Dr Hoffman,
You gave me the answer i was most expecting and the one i least wanted to hear
.
Your knowledge will be taken to heart as this is exatly what the old pros i fish with have told me lol. And you clearly Know your stuff as this the exact setup they use.
In my youth and ignorance i have been drawn away from multipliers to grinders bust i think it may be time to bring the old speedmaster out and get her spinning.
Your advice is truely appreciated and very accurate based on other info i have aquired over the past 2 seasons.Nonetheless, you must admit, it is quite thrilling being connected to a tail on a grinder and braid, despite the chances of landing the fish.
Thank you again DR Hoff. You Know your tail
You gave me the answer i was most expecting and the one i least wanted to hear
.Your knowledge will be taken to heart as this is exatly what the old pros i fish with have told me lol. And you clearly Know your stuff as this the exact setup they use.
In my youth and ignorance i have been drawn away from multipliers to grinders bust i think it may be time to bring the old speedmaster out and get her spinning.
Your advice is truely appreciated and very accurate based on other info i have aquired over the past 2 seasons.Nonetheless, you must admit, it is quite thrilling being connected to a tail on a grinder and braid, despite the chances of landing the fish.
Thank you again DR Hoff. You Know your tail
Kenty
Sealiner
Dr halibut hoffman wrote:
THE ONLY way to throw for tail a multiplier ....irrespective of how fantastic your grinder is ...still not true spinning...ek se ma net...
HuntaGrunt wrote:Â Â
Â
 Â
Up the east coast you want a multiplier and quality/tough 0.55 mono and good 1mm to 1.2mm mono, then you in with a good fighting chance..Gosa 10000 will do but 60lb, ja if a "strong" 60lb that tests higher and be prepared to loose many fish if you find them..until you on the mono, things more in your favour then..
Anything over 6kg will clean you up proper most times unless really lucky if a 5000/6000 size shimmy but you'd also fish 20-30lb on those rigs too and lighter leader..leerie setups, on a 10000 you'd be fine but the line to need to land those things is like casting a rope..there is a reason the tail specialists use a winch and bungee
Anyway.
THE ONLY way to throw for tail a multiplier ....irrespective of how fantastic your grinder is ...still not true spinning...ek se ma net...HuntaGrunt
Member
If I may ask though dr Hoffman,for when you may have time to reply. Why not an HMG rod, is this due to the possibility of breaking the rod as hmg should not be bent to the extent of a composit, resin or fibre rod?
HuntaGrunt
Member
I understand what your saying Kenty sir, but I believe your mistaken in that it's the only way. Many many catches of big tail are made on the east coast using spinning outfits though I am sure your aware of this. Even ridiculously light setups, though I know landing them on these setups is a matter of chance. But none the less it can be done. I guess though that anything could happen,the works record yft from the rocks is on a grinder an so are many others. the record light tackle gt is at 45kg on 12lb line class so miracles do happen. This is not saying that the most effective way isnt a multiplier setup. But for one looking specifically to get them on grinder. I ask wether my reel will handle and I believe Mr Hoffman answered that. Thank you though, having fished with true pros, they have said to me exactly what you just did, so I am by no means writing off your statement, respect the opinion a d appreciate the advice.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
I am sure though that the drag on the record YFT was abouts the same you need to land a decent tail from the side?! My drag is poked on my reel, just been locking em this season down on with a golf grip, on the grip LOL! Need some carbontex!
Landing YFT needs line capacity, smooth drag, patience, technique and a good back, tail are other animals.. I pull harder on a big tail than I do on a 100kg tuna! If I fight a big tuna on the drag I use on a tail, he'll pull me into the deep blue sea. My bud hooked a gas bottle yellowfin about 3 weeks back on the boat in 30m of water on what can only be described as a 10lb grunter rig, little shimmy grinder, sedona or something.. Mate fought that fish for 30 mins, almost got spooled once or twice and eventually it was circling under the boat and the hooks pulled..he was gutted but that is fishing. and braid..Check the competition LTB fishing for tuna in the cape on 4kg mono!! Takes em like a whole day but they can land a 200lb yellowfin on 4kg.
Composite rod casts nicer for spinning multiplier style, the tip is softer and the cast smoother. It has more of a parabolic action pulling the fish and takes knocks and gnashes on rocks in the enviroment you fish for them much better, when you hook a proper fish the tip doesn't snap off. I prefer HMG rods for everything else though LOL..But was told to get a "carbon" rod by the pros as opposed to a graphite rod but was misuse of terms, they were referring to the bluemarlin 10ft 2-4oz "pro carbon" T24 blank which is not available anymore, the mandril damaged/skew, my rod builder suggested a 50/50 composite blue marlin SS made up from parts of the grinder blank (which is 50/50) and he was spot on the money. That rod casts amazing, and pulls and is very light.
My chom landed a 10kg plus tail this year on the lightest 10-20lb braid leerie rig, but it was a fluke and luck and also experience and skill and he thought he had a leerie on the way the fish was fighting and it stayed on top luckily, bottom was cold, he put his rod in a holder in the rock to throw at some tail while it was on the line and picked the rod up to fight it later while the fish was skulking in a rock pool up the drag..turned out to be a very nice tail?! But that is him, the tail and him go back till before he was born. Like a 3rd generation tail nutter.
I got cleaned up few weeks back, proper by a small 6kg class fish that I thought was a katonkel as it swam twards me headshaking, until it was close, on my 20lb grinder rig..It woke up and cut me off on a reef 200m out.. locking down a fish on a grinder is unwieldy while you are fighting and it running, when you do, pop! You need the stretch. On my proper rig that little fish would pronto be in the freezer in a vacuum bag! I got one of 15kg last year, took me less than 10metres out, fight was pretty intense and over quickly..If I had no bungee that fish would have cleaned me up. If I had no gaffman it would have been way more in the fishes favour and it was still touch and go for moments in the fight.
When I was chasing them on a sustain 10000 and eventually up to 65-80lb braid, I think I got over the thrill of hooking the big boys on braid right around after loosing fish #13 or #14 in a row or something ridiculous..It gets tired quick. I was like 3 seasons in and it was getting expensive!! The petrol (and road tax!) I spent on that getting that first big boy out on braid. It's was, but it's not worth it.
That's abouts when grootvis, here on sealine, kindly gave me his old weathered saltist 40 (that is still catching fish after fish BTW) to learn to cast and I bought an exage 11ft casting (which I still use for cliffside cracker hunting). I could barely throw 30 meters but persevered, here I am a few years later and I can't believe I fished so uncomfortably for so long before and lost so many fish before I stopped being stubborn and listened to the experienced guys/gals landing fish.
It is much more thrilling landing them and the old timers might make a space for you on the rock. Also have you considered how the braid stuffs it up for the guys on their game..You cut off the guys on mono if there are multiple hook-ups. I was sworn @ a few and I still did not land my fish. LOL. You cast less accurately on grinder and bomb shoals more, the line is highly visible and I was a sceptic but now over the years I have had TOO many fish of all sorts intently trying their hardest to EAT my leader knot right before my eyes so I use high vis braid on the light rig no more. The braid guys will loose most of their fish when they do come past and this will send the shoal scooting away following the lost fish who are in panic mode to get away, this takes the shoal away. If you watch the pros like wayne stanley and their crew working together with no kooks in the way and a keen shoal, they will work together to hook and land fish, keeping the shoal there and occupied and keen and landing multiple fish, each, from it. You can't do that with one braid guy in the mix even. Even when a shoal is full of S#%@ my bro will take the first cast with a little plug over them and rile them up, form a stripe and bring em closer, then I can get a cast in behind him, behind them and bring my plug through the middle of them now that they are a bit pissed off, and get smashed, and keep the shoal with the hooked fish as I let it bungee around, and let him hook up, land mine, let my mate keep the shoal following his fish, throw hook up, and let him land his and get another shot again. Now try doing that with braid.
Braid is keeping you from being invited to the bigger leagues my bud.. It has its place but it is not in this game. I started spinning from the boat with my multiplier this year, the skipper is like "WTF you can cast now?!" As in my casts are landing where I want them to, the grinder would fly everywhere where I did not want to and I was famous for bombing shoals, casting 2 oclock when fish are at 9 o clock..First trip I took the grandwave to sea, I was like, why didn't I do this yonks ago, so much better..shame my battle along penn battle that has died and been revived too many times may to my complete surprise be retired, alive after all these years and being on the whole journey with me! Accuracy of grinder is way less than multiplier.
The old timers advice to me, and it was around this time of year when the tail were moving off and I had just learned to use my real reel but was a complete hack still, was to pack away my grinder till next summer and force myself to bait fish the whole winter on the saltist 40 and exage and get used to it and next season start fishing it. Was one of the best things I have done in fishing, never looked back. Hardly fished a grinder for bait since and hardly spun bar a leerie or shad or bass with a grinder in the years since then.
Landing YFT needs line capacity, smooth drag, patience, technique and a good back, tail are other animals.. I pull harder on a big tail than I do on a 100kg tuna! If I fight a big tuna on the drag I use on a tail, he'll pull me into the deep blue sea. My bud hooked a gas bottle yellowfin about 3 weeks back on the boat in 30m of water on what can only be described as a 10lb grunter rig, little shimmy grinder, sedona or something.. Mate fought that fish for 30 mins, almost got spooled once or twice and eventually it was circling under the boat and the hooks pulled..he was gutted but that is fishing. and braid..Check the competition LTB fishing for tuna in the cape on 4kg mono!! Takes em like a whole day but they can land a 200lb yellowfin on 4kg.
Composite rod casts nicer for spinning multiplier style, the tip is softer and the cast smoother. It has more of a parabolic action pulling the fish and takes knocks and gnashes on rocks in the enviroment you fish for them much better, when you hook a proper fish the tip doesn't snap off. I prefer HMG rods for everything else though LOL..But was told to get a "carbon" rod by the pros as opposed to a graphite rod but was misuse of terms, they were referring to the bluemarlin 10ft 2-4oz "pro carbon" T24 blank which is not available anymore, the mandril damaged/skew, my rod builder suggested a 50/50 composite blue marlin SS made up from parts of the grinder blank (which is 50/50) and he was spot on the money. That rod casts amazing, and pulls and is very light.
My chom landed a 10kg plus tail this year on the lightest 10-20lb braid leerie rig, but it was a fluke and luck and also experience and skill and he thought he had a leerie on the way the fish was fighting and it stayed on top luckily, bottom was cold, he put his rod in a holder in the rock to throw at some tail while it was on the line and picked the rod up to fight it later while the fish was skulking in a rock pool up the drag..turned out to be a very nice tail?! But that is him, the tail and him go back till before he was born. Like a 3rd generation tail nutter.
I got cleaned up few weeks back, proper by a small 6kg class fish that I thought was a katonkel as it swam twards me headshaking, until it was close, on my 20lb grinder rig..It woke up and cut me off on a reef 200m out.. locking down a fish on a grinder is unwieldy while you are fighting and it running, when you do, pop! You need the stretch. On my proper rig that little fish would pronto be in the freezer in a vacuum bag! I got one of 15kg last year, took me less than 10metres out, fight was pretty intense and over quickly..If I had no bungee that fish would have cleaned me up. If I had no gaffman it would have been way more in the fishes favour and it was still touch and go for moments in the fight.
When I was chasing them on a sustain 10000 and eventually up to 65-80lb braid, I think I got over the thrill of hooking the big boys on braid right around after loosing fish #13 or #14 in a row or something ridiculous..It gets tired quick. I was like 3 seasons in and it was getting expensive!! The petrol (and road tax!) I spent on that getting that first big boy out on braid. It's was, but it's not worth it.
That's abouts when grootvis, here on sealine, kindly gave me his old weathered saltist 40 (that is still catching fish after fish BTW) to learn to cast and I bought an exage 11ft casting (which I still use for cliffside cracker hunting). I could barely throw 30 meters but persevered, here I am a few years later and I can't believe I fished so uncomfortably for so long before and lost so many fish before I stopped being stubborn and listened to the experienced guys/gals landing fish.
It is much more thrilling landing them and the old timers might make a space for you on the rock. Also have you considered how the braid stuffs it up for the guys on their game..You cut off the guys on mono if there are multiple hook-ups. I was sworn @ a few and I still did not land my fish. LOL. You cast less accurately on grinder and bomb shoals more, the line is highly visible and I was a sceptic but now over the years I have had TOO many fish of all sorts intently trying their hardest to EAT my leader knot right before my eyes so I use high vis braid on the light rig no more. The braid guys will loose most of their fish when they do come past and this will send the shoal scooting away following the lost fish who are in panic mode to get away, this takes the shoal away. If you watch the pros like wayne stanley and their crew working together with no kooks in the way and a keen shoal, they will work together to hook and land fish, keeping the shoal there and occupied and keen and landing multiple fish, each, from it. You can't do that with one braid guy in the mix even. Even when a shoal is full of S#%@ my bro will take the first cast with a little plug over them and rile them up, form a stripe and bring em closer, then I can get a cast in behind him, behind them and bring my plug through the middle of them now that they are a bit pissed off, and get smashed, and keep the shoal with the hooked fish as I let it bungee around, and let him hook up, land mine, let my mate keep the shoal following his fish, throw hook up, and let him land his and get another shot again. Now try doing that with braid.
Braid is keeping you from being invited to the bigger leagues my bud..
It has its place but it is not in this game. I started spinning from the boat with my multiplier this year, the skipper is like "WTF you can cast now?!" As in my casts are landing where I want them to, the grinder would fly everywhere where I did not want to and I was famous for bombing shoals, casting 2 oclock when fish are at 9 o clock..First trip I took the grandwave to sea, I was like, why didn't I do this yonks ago, so much better..shame my battle along penn battle that has died and been revived too many times may to my complete surprise be retired, alive after all these years and being on the whole journey with me! Accuracy of grinder is way less than multiplier. The old timers advice to me, and it was around this time of year when the tail were moving off and I had just learned to use my real reel but was a complete hack still, was to pack away my grinder till next summer and force myself to bait fish the whole winter on the saltist 40 and exage and get used to it and next season start fishing it. Was one of the best things I have done in fishing, never looked back. Hardly fished a grinder for bait since and hardly spun bar a leerie or shad or bass with a grinder in the years since then.
HuntaGrunt
Member
Dr Hoff,
Your insight and info with regards to this facet is nothing short of astounding.
Being a relative rooky in the field you have brought a number of points to mind that are without a doubt, un arguable.
Points i had not even contemplated.though some will not apply as I am one who avoids a crowd at all costs and keep my feet firmly on the rocks spinning( no boat) but still, you make a fine argument for the multiplier in all respects.infact ones that simply cannot be beaten by a grinder fan. I have spun multiplier outfits and am comfortable in doing so, though never for tail.such vast insight and knowledge does lead me to want to bring out the multiplier, though then I have wasted a terrific amount of cash on my heavy grinder outfit lol
. Though it will still come into use as I use it for smaller gt aswell. I still stick by the fact that, many good tail have been landed on grinders, infact just this weekend one was picked up on a point I fish regularly on a light setup. But I do not wish to lose that once in a lifetime fish simply because I'm to stubborn to pull out the multiplier. So I will take the advice given, put the gosa aside for a while and see if I can still cast that crows nest machine:lol:1. Thank you gents, the info is really appreciated and sadly for me, confirmed what I kinda already new.
That is a lovely tail in that pic sir.
Your insight and info with regards to this facet is nothing short of astounding.
Being a relative rooky in the field you have brought a number of points to mind that are without a doubt, un arguable.
Points i had not even contemplated.though some will not apply as I am one who avoids a crowd at all costs and keep my feet firmly on the rocks spinning( no boat) but still, you make a fine argument for the multiplier in all respects.infact ones that simply cannot be beaten by a grinder fan. I have spun multiplier outfits and am comfortable in doing so, though never for tail.such vast insight and knowledge does lead me to want to bring out the multiplier, though then I have wasted a terrific amount of cash on my heavy grinder outfit lol
. Though it will still come into use as I use it for smaller gt aswell. I still stick by the fact that, many good tail have been landed on grinders, infact just this weekend one was picked up on a point I fish regularly on a light setup. But I do not wish to lose that once in a lifetime fish simply because I'm to stubborn to pull out the multiplier. So I will take the advice given, put the gosa aside for a while and see if I can still cast that crows nest machine:lol:1. Thank you gents, the info is really appreciated and sadly for me, confirmed what I kinda already new.That is a lovely tail in that pic sir.
HuntaGrunt
Member
I infact have to thank you again.that was a time consuming and very Indepth reply which certainly taught me something and covered grounds I hadn't even questioned.
Very much appreciated Dr Hoffman.
Very much appreciated Dr Hoffman.
HuntaGrunt
Member
HuntaGrunt
Member
Aha Houtarm ,
I happen to follow you on insta an saw your awsome catch already, fishing with duggy fishing.
Absolutely beautiful sir. Was it the lt60 setup you got him on and how did the setup handle if you dont mind me asking.would also love to know where that is if i may ask, though i understand if thats too much sharing. Definately not rooikrans so must be in the bay? or down towards bettis? haha have to try my luck.
I happen to follow you on insta an saw your awsome catch already, fishing with duggy fishing
.Absolutely beautiful sir. Was it the lt60 setup you got him on and how did the setup handle if you dont mind me asking.would also love to know where that is if i may ask, though i understand if thats too much sharing
. Definately not rooikrans so must be in the bay? or down towards bettis? haha have to try my luck.Ah yes I caught it with Dougie yes.
Ja fished with my LT60, 12ft Rugged Extreme and 50lb braid. Actually my gallie setup.
The setup handled it awesome. We caught more than 20 tail over three weekends, all on light spinning setups (mine was the heaviest between four setups used).
We lost a lot of fish as well, but not one due to cut off's on reefs. All the fish were lost close to the side while trying to land. They were biting in schools and getting a good hookup seemed to be difficult when 3 or 4 fish grabs at the lure. I lost only two spoons over the three weekends, due to my own stupidity
.
Not too keen to share the area, sorry man!!
Ja fished with my LT60, 12ft Rugged Extreme and 50lb braid. Actually my gallie setup
. The setup handled it awesome. We caught more than 20 tail over three weekends, all on light spinning setups (mine was the heaviest between four setups used).
We lost a lot of fish as well, but not one due to cut off's on reefs. All the fish were lost close to the side while trying to land. They were biting in schools and getting a good hookup seemed to be difficult when 3 or 4 fish grabs at the lure. I lost only two spoons over the three weekends, due to my own stupidity
.Not too keen to share the area, sorry man!!