with recent activity in the bag limit sector we be

S

subaruseun

Sealiner
with recent activity in the bag limit sector we been speaking of "WHAT" actual n=bag limit is...

my question is bag limit...

is it per day (any one day) as the brochure states? or
in your possession? over 2/3/4/5 days?

i hear the in your possession term... allot and its confusing? i have a researched answer and it comes from parks board officials.


Extract of the Marine Recreational
Activity Information
Brochure 2014/2015

Regulations specific to recreational angling
(9) The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling shall not catch, disturb, land, keep or control:
(a) any fish listed in the Prohibited Species list of Annexure 6,
(b) more fish than the bag-limit listed in respect of each species in Species List of Annexure 6 during any one day. Furthermore,
there is an overall cumulative daily bag limit of ten, irrespective of the species caught and provided that this limit does not apply
to those species listed here with no bag limit, and to those with a bag limit exceeding ten;
(c) any fish smaller than, or of a mass less than, the size-limit listed in respect of each species in the Species List of Annexure 6;




what are your thoughts.
 
E

EugeneC

Sealiner
I've always understood the bag limit to be per person per day. Ex. if you were to land and keep one legal size steenbras per day for 5 days running and stuck them all in your freezer at the end of every fishing day, you're still within the law, even though you are now in possession of 5 steenbras.
 
S

subaruseun

Sealiner
thats how i understand it and i confirmed it with parks board

however, i hear of a "in possession" term

that would technically mean what is in your possession?

so catch a steeni, braai it, then catch another smoke it, then catch another... and so on... this cant be correct? as long as you're possessing one you are okay? yet u klapped the steenies and your tummy is bursting at the seams
 
F

flippy

Sealiner
if in possession you can't harvest another until that one or two has been eaten.. no parks board is going home with you to check your freezer so best hope to nail this activity is when at the beach with more than allowed per day or in possession

eating one while you already caught one and kept is breaking the law

maybe I'm being doff
 
E

EugeneC

Sealiner
Interesting point....it would be really hard to prove that an angler landed and consumed more than one steenie in one day I'd imagine.
 
F

Fin-S

Sealiner
Possession.
Hence with crays, you can only be in possession of 4, doesn't matter if in boat, bakkie, braai or freezer - total is 4.
Same as fish.
 
S

subaruseun

Sealiner
Fin-S wrote:
Possession.
Hence with crays, you can only be in possession of 4, doesn't matter if in boat, bakkie, braai or freezer - total is 4.
Same as fish.
Click to expand...

interesting... this is what we chatted about socially, for crays is there a law you can quote as it is clear in the brochure or THE amended MLRA Act.

but reading the MLRA 2014-2015 it clearly says any one day!
it does not say possession or imply possession its says...

"""The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling shall not catch, disturb, land, keep or control:
(a) any fish listed in the Prohibited Species list of Annexure 6,
(b) more fish than the bag-limit listed in respect of each species in Species List of Annexure 6 during any one day"""


the possession rule is for crays when it comes to transportation and it was designed to curb cray sales, it goes further and says

"""A maximum of 20 rock lobsters may be transported per day, on condition that all the persons who caught such rock
lobster are present in the vehicle, vessel or aircraft during transportation, and that such persons are in possession of
recreational rock lobster permits; keep control or be in possession of more than 20 west coast rock lobster at any time –
eg. home/residence."""


what is more is that park board works on the "any one day rule"...

maybe its time for DAFF to clearly define the rules of the game and at the same time reduce critical specie quotas or enact a similar law to that of OZ
 
S

subaruseun

Sealiner
Thanks sparks.

"any one day land or be in possession of."

like i said parks board applies the any one day rule so you may fish again tomorrow
 
F

Fishbait

Senior Member
subaruseun wrote:
Thanks sparks.

"any one day land or be in possession of."

like i said parks board applies the any one day rule so you may fish again tomorrow
Click to expand...

I would be sceptical to take the advice from parks board "Any one day land or be in possession of", due to the fact that many agencies enlisted by DAFF to enforce the MLRA 18/1998 are not even clear themselves on the regulations, prescriptions and provisions of the Act.
there is only one Act that being 18/1998.

In so doing these agencies can advise wrongly and create a lot of doubt around the interpretation of the Act.

"No person (or recreational Fisher) may on any one day land or be in possesion of more than the species-specific Bag Limits as indicated in the species list."Annexure 6

This would imply, that the Bag Limit for the beach is the Bag Limit for the freezer at home, on any one day.

Any one day meaning at any time. So say for example you should get paid a visit by DAFF Officials, as they can visit just about any one without a Warrant according to the MLRA 18/1998, based on reasonable suspicion.

Your Bag Limit for example Steenie will comply with the fish species list being a minimum size of 60cm, otherwise it would be considered undersized and a maximum of one as per Annexure 6 of the MLRA.

You may have a overall cumulative daily bag of 10 ten fish but annexure six will specify how much per specie. for example 5 kobs, minimum size being 50cm, 1 Steenie min size being 60cm, 2 Gallie min size being 35cm etc.

Hopes this sheds a little more light on the Bag Limit of a person in possession a recreational fishing permit, in possession of fish.

Alternately if persons are in possession of saleable species then that person has to produce an invoice from the supplier that sold the specie to the person in possession of fish exceeding the bag limit on any one day.
 
K

kennylau

Senior Member
I concur with fishbait.

It all comes down to "Interpretation of Statutes".

This was explained to me a few years ago by Kevin Green from Emzivelo Wildlife in KZN as well.
 
E

EugeneC

Sealiner
The solution is simple: do the right thing, practise catch & release and if you want to take fish home stay on the conservative end of the interpretation of bag limits. ;)
 
D

Dr halibut hoffman

Moderator
I agree with fishbait, that is the way that it has always been explained to me, ie.. A bag limit is "on any one day" is at any time, any meaning today and tomorrow, not today or tomorrow. This is taken to mean in your possession, including in storage, at home or wherever. The only way to get around it is to limit those in your possession is by releasing, giving away or eating prior to the total limit being reached so one could continue catch and release or "disturbing the fish".
 
G

grootvis

Sealiner
Its a big mess actually, same as the commercial guys, they may not have any fishing rods onboard their vessels, or any other fish catching device other than line and hooks etc, but....................
 
S

subaruseun

Sealiner
thanks for the input.

we dont primarily fish for eds anymore... if we do, we tag em... the odd one is kept. the idea is to get a proper answer and not interpretation.

i hear you when you say "parks board advice is incorrect", try telling the langebaan weekenders that... when we fish there, the collection drive is obvious and spoken of, fridges... eish man they get stocked to the top.

the regs are full of loopholes, go around in the fishing fraternity and its evident that guys are stocking and selling.


for example typical summer situation...
my bait freezer has 7yt, 1.5 katonkel, a cob head, a few kgs chokka a couple of snoek heads does this mean i have reached bag limit?


a big mess indeed!
 
Marthin

Marthin

Sealiner
Sparky says it best black on white...

It can't be any more clear than that... the fish in your bakkie is under your posession, so is the fish in your freezer... you may not be in posession of more than the daily limit at any one time.

If you have 2 gallies in the freezer you have to release the one at the beach.
 

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R

rofflign

Sealiner
So in theory if you had two gallies in the freezer and caught another one, before releasing it you would be in possession of three..:?
 
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Expat

Sealiner
Die 2014/2015 regulasies praat nêrens van "in possession" nie!

http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/sideMenu/fisheries/21_HotIssues/April2010/MarineRecreationalActivityInformationBrochure/Marine%20Recreational%20Brochure%202014-2015.pdf

Regulations specific to recreational angling
(9) The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling shall not catch, disturb, land, keep or control:
(a) any fish listed in the Prohibited Species list of Annexure 6,
(b) more fish than the bag-limit listed in respect of each species in Species List of Annexure 6 during any one day. Furthermore,
there is an overall cumulative daily bag limit of ten, irrespective of the species caught and provided that this limit does not apply
to those species listed here with no bag limit, and to those with a bag limit exceeding ten;
(c) any fish smaller than, or of a mass less than, the size-limit listed in respect of each species in the Species List of Annexure 6;
(d) any fish during the closed-season listed in respect of each species in the Species List of Annexure 6.
(10) The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling may use a gaff for the purpose of landing a fish that has been hooked
on a line, but may never use a club, stick spear or speargun.
 
E

Expat

Sealiner
Die 2014/2015 regulasies praat nêrens van "in possession" nie!

http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/sideMenu/fisheries/21_HotIssues/April2010/MarineRecreationalActivityInformationBrochure/Marine%20Recreational%20Brochure%202014-2015.pdf

Regulations specific to recreational angling
(9) The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling shall not catch, disturb, land, keep or control:
(a) any fish listed in the Prohibited Species list of Annexure 6,
(b) more fish than the bag-limit listed in respect of each species in Species List of Annexure 6 during any one day. Furthermore,
there is an overall cumulative daily bag limit of ten, irrespective of the species caught and provided that this limit does not apply
to those species listed here with no bag limit, and to those with a bag limit exceeding ten;
(c) any fish smaller than, or of a mass less than, the size-limit listed in respect of each species in the Species List of Annexure 6;
(d) any fish during the closed-season listed in respect of each species in the Species List of Annexure 6.
(10) The holder of a recreational fishing permit endorsed for angling may use a gaff for the purpose of landing a fish that has been hooked
on a line, but may never use a club, stick spear or speargun.
 
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