Herewith letters to the Editor in yesterday's star from the ANC fishing desk. Perhaps someone that has contact with them should tell them that a 150 years ago there was maybe a couple of thousand people fishing in False Bay compared to what must surely be hundreds of thousands today. You can't just carry on exploiting a resource. There is unfortunately not much logic in their arguments, nonetheless a great response from the journalist John Yeld.
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Update on False Bay trek netting
- Thread starter Pylstert
- Start date
Thanx,Leon!Any chance of sending this report onto an organization such as Bulldog or similar,or would they be aware of this feedback?Carey(think that's his name) is a member of Sealine,and perhaps can be approached via Sealine.Even if he can't tackle this,perhaps he knows of someone who can push things along.
Personally,I feel that with the right spokesman,this trek net issue could reach a bigger audience if handed to Carte Blanche to investigate,accompanied with report you posted here.
A bigger audience would then in turn attract those Scientists,Specialists in their fields, to offer their findings as to whether this trek licence should or should not be allowed to be reinstated.
Personally,I feel that with the right spokesman,this trek net issue could reach a bigger audience if handed to Carte Blanche to investigate,accompanied with report you posted here.
A bigger audience would then in turn attract those Scientists,Specialists in their fields, to offer their findings as to whether this trek licence should or should not be allowed to be reinstated.
Walt, about 2 years ago i mailed Carte Blanche requesting them to investigate this and they did diddly squat. Granted my information on the topic was and still is limited, but they didnt even come back to me (not that they have to i guess). Either its a topic they dont want to touch, are too afraid too, or wanted a full story with all data from me before they'd look at it. Dunno. i thought if they replied the ball might start rolling and we could gather facts.
50/50 might do a show if someone approached them as they are enviroment related. but i have seen something on trek netting on there before, and it was pro trekking.
50/50 might do a show if someone approached them as they are enviroment related. but i have seen something on trek netting on there before, and it was pro trekking.
Patrick wrote:
50/50 is SABC, and we all know who by and how its run, so i don't think you ll get an favourable response thereWalt, about 2 years ago i mailed Carte Blanche requesting them to investigate this and they did diddly squat. Granted my information on the topic was and still is limited, but they didnt even come back to me (not that they have to i guess). Either its a topic they don't want to touch, are too afraid too, or wanted a full story with all data from me before they'd look at it. Dunno. i thought if they replied the ball might start rolling and we could gather facts.
50/50 might do a show if someone approached them as they are enviroment related. but i have seen something on trek netting on there before, and it was pro trekking.
alwyn wrote:
I am glad that I am not the only one who has noticed how "soft" 50/50 has gone.
They used to have punchy investigative journalism and now it seems more like touchy feely stuff.
Patrick wrote:50/50 is SABC, and we all know who by and how its run, so i don't think you ll get an favourable response there50/50 might do a show if someone approached them as they are enviroment related. but i have seen something on trek netting on there before, and it was pro trekking.
I am glad that I am not the only one who has noticed how "soft" 50/50 has gone.
They used to have punchy investigative journalism and now it seems more like touchy feely stuff.
jb2 wrote:
One Vuvuzella here & there is not going to make much noise,but take a whole stadium of Vuvuzellas, and you've got a match on in SA.Ask the England side,lol.
I have no clue how to blow a Vuvuzella,much like I wouldn't know what path to offer here with Glencairn debacle.
But what I do know is that I've seen the steenbras that come out at Glen and by the sheer size of those fish,I doubt they'd survive the netting,landing,etc,while trekking for Tail.
Very frustrating,as I receive so many questions on "What to do?" as it's a Steenbras spawning area.But how does one actually prove that?
They definitely don't feed there,as no one I know of has ever caught Steenbras there.And as they probably go off their feed during Spawning this could be their main motivation for being there,and that being to spawn.
So,JB,would you say this is a lost cause?It may be unethnical for you to comment,but it'd be interesting to hear how you think this could be opposed.alwyn wrote:Patrick wrote:50/50 is SABC, and we all know who by and how its run, so i don't think you ll get an favourable response there50/50 might do a show if someone approached them as they are enviroment related. but i have seen something on trek netting on there before, and it was pro trekking.
I am glad that I am not the only one who has noticed how "soft" 50/50 has gone.
They used to have punchy investigative journalism and now it seems more like touchy feely stuff.
One Vuvuzella here & there is not going to make much noise,but take a whole stadium of Vuvuzellas, and you've got a match on in SA.Ask the England side,lol.
I have no clue how to blow a Vuvuzella,much like I wouldn't know what path to offer here with Glencairn debacle.
But what I do know is that I've seen the steenbras that come out at Glen and by the sheer size of those fish,I doubt they'd survive the netting,landing,etc,while trekking for Tail.
Very frustrating,as I receive so many questions on "What to do?" as it's a Steenbras spawning area.But how does one actually prove that?
They definitely don't feed there,as no one I know of has ever caught Steenbras there.And as they probably go off their feed during Spawning this could be their main motivation for being there,and that being to spawn.
I used to be up to speed with the old NEMA and the EIA process and there was lots of room for public participation and comment when a developent was proposed and it is still the case. I think the Marine Act also falls under the National Environmental Management Act, but with issuing of fishing licenses really not sure if there is the opportunity for comment. Possibly recreational anglers can go to court to argue that their rights are being infringed and that Judge Erasmus did not consider NEMA when he granted relief to the trekkers (remember they still need to get their new licenses as far as I know so this is not cut and dry but there is now huge political pressure on MCM). Snag is it will cost a lot of money and to provide a long term solution one should try and be proactive and find alternative sources of employment in the fishing industry for the trekkers e.g. guides or something. This will shut the politicians up.
Captain Haddock
Senior Member
Hi Guys
Please see below letter I sent to the People's Post (community paper of Southern Peninsula). I have also sent a letter to the Cape Argus, as well as the Minister for Agriculture, Forestries & Fisheries herself - a long shot perhaps but worth half an hour of my time...
Regards
Dear Editor
The letter in your recent edition from Andy Johnston of the Artisanal Fisher's Association refers.
While one sympathises with the plight of many survivalist and small-scale fishermen, who have undoubtedly been marginalized in terms of access to quotas and sustainable livelihoods, Mr Johnstone is politicising an environmental matter and muddling two different issues here. No one would argue that these fishermen need to be brought into the industry in some way, whether through access to quotas, being contracted as suppliers to quota holders, trained in skills to enable them to run fishing charters or similar. However, his proposed solution , namely to reopen trek-fishing in Simonstown and Glencairn, is a short-sighted, selfish and absolutely untenable option, for a number of reasons:
Firstly, every scientific study undertaken on the sustainable harvest of fish in False Bay has concluded that harvesting is already at maximum yield and any additional pressure could see the collapse of stocks entirely. This is particularly relevant to trek-fishing, with three licencees already in operation (Fish Hoek, Smitswinkel Bay and Strandfontein). While Mr Johnstone is quick to rubbish such scientific data, the rest of the world tends to take it quite seriously.
Secondly, one should ask why the original trek licences for the areas in question were lost. Was it perhaps due to indiscriminate poaching and illegal harvesting of fish that were not part of the allocated quota - in particular the highly threatened White Steenbras, which uses this area as a spawning ground? Rumours are that the same people who lost the licence are now applying for it again, and that they already hold or have links to quota holders so they are not actually marginalized or excluded in any event. Some clarity on this would be in the public interest.
Thirdly, the ANC has lent their weight to this issue but with no understanding or knowledge of the plight of the fish stocks in question nor an appreciation that worldwide trends show a restriction in commercial fishing practices, not an expansion of them. Mr Maxwell Moss, head of the ANC Fishing Desk handling this issue, was not even aware that Simonstown is a known breeding ground for White Steenbras!
Fourthly, Mr Johnstone asserts that trek fishing is about survival and putting food in people's mouths. Maybe generations ago this was the case, but nowadays it is all about money and business. Earlier this year we watched a group of trekkers illegally haul in over 3 tonnes of spawning yellowtail at Simonstown, in contravention of the ban there. Conservatively, 3000kg x R20/kg = R60,000 - not bad for an hours work. No wonder there are shadowy figures at play here behind the scenes.
Finally, with all the commercial fishing activity already taking place in False Bay, including the hundreds of commercial skiboats, trawlers from Kalk Bay, and the three trek concessions already in operation, to even consider allowing trek fishing at these known spawning grounds for highly pressured fish is incomprehensible. Recreational fishermen, who contribute millions to state coffers and the economy through licences, tackle purchase, accommodation spend etc are allowed to catch one steenbras a day - how can then anyone justify allowing trekkers to catch pregnant fish by the tonne? Even if they are granted only yellowtail or haarder quotas, no one polices the trekking and soon enough the steenbras will be wiped out for good. We are only seeing the gradual return of these endangered fish to False Bay waters now, years after the last ban was instituted.
Again, one sympathises with the plight of legitimate subsistence fishers, and as a matter of urgency they need to be engaged and a place found for them to participate and earn a living. However, politicising this issue and offering unsustainable, short-term solutions will see the death knell for fish stocks in False Bay, which will do nobody any good in the long term.
Sincerely
Please see below letter I sent to the People's Post (community paper of Southern Peninsula). I have also sent a letter to the Cape Argus, as well as the Minister for Agriculture, Forestries & Fisheries herself - a long shot perhaps but worth half an hour of my time...
Regards
Dear Editor
The letter in your recent edition from Andy Johnston of the Artisanal Fisher's Association refers.
While one sympathises with the plight of many survivalist and small-scale fishermen, who have undoubtedly been marginalized in terms of access to quotas and sustainable livelihoods, Mr Johnstone is politicising an environmental matter and muddling two different issues here. No one would argue that these fishermen need to be brought into the industry in some way, whether through access to quotas, being contracted as suppliers to quota holders, trained in skills to enable them to run fishing charters or similar. However, his proposed solution , namely to reopen trek-fishing in Simonstown and Glencairn, is a short-sighted, selfish and absolutely untenable option, for a number of reasons:
Firstly, every scientific study undertaken on the sustainable harvest of fish in False Bay has concluded that harvesting is already at maximum yield and any additional pressure could see the collapse of stocks entirely. This is particularly relevant to trek-fishing, with three licencees already in operation (Fish Hoek, Smitswinkel Bay and Strandfontein). While Mr Johnstone is quick to rubbish such scientific data, the rest of the world tends to take it quite seriously.
Secondly, one should ask why the original trek licences for the areas in question were lost. Was it perhaps due to indiscriminate poaching and illegal harvesting of fish that were not part of the allocated quota - in particular the highly threatened White Steenbras, which uses this area as a spawning ground? Rumours are that the same people who lost the licence are now applying for it again, and that they already hold or have links to quota holders so they are not actually marginalized or excluded in any event. Some clarity on this would be in the public interest.
Thirdly, the ANC has lent their weight to this issue but with no understanding or knowledge of the plight of the fish stocks in question nor an appreciation that worldwide trends show a restriction in commercial fishing practices, not an expansion of them. Mr Maxwell Moss, head of the ANC Fishing Desk handling this issue, was not even aware that Simonstown is a known breeding ground for White Steenbras!
Fourthly, Mr Johnstone asserts that trek fishing is about survival and putting food in people's mouths. Maybe generations ago this was the case, but nowadays it is all about money and business. Earlier this year we watched a group of trekkers illegally haul in over 3 tonnes of spawning yellowtail at Simonstown, in contravention of the ban there. Conservatively, 3000kg x R20/kg = R60,000 - not bad for an hours work. No wonder there are shadowy figures at play here behind the scenes.
Finally, with all the commercial fishing activity already taking place in False Bay, including the hundreds of commercial skiboats, trawlers from Kalk Bay, and the three trek concessions already in operation, to even consider allowing trek fishing at these known spawning grounds for highly pressured fish is incomprehensible. Recreational fishermen, who contribute millions to state coffers and the economy through licences, tackle purchase, accommodation spend etc are allowed to catch one steenbras a day - how can then anyone justify allowing trekkers to catch pregnant fish by the tonne? Even if they are granted only yellowtail or haarder quotas, no one polices the trekking and soon enough the steenbras will be wiped out for good. We are only seeing the gradual return of these endangered fish to False Bay waters now, years after the last ban was instituted.
Again, one sympathises with the plight of legitimate subsistence fishers, and as a matter of urgency they need to be engaged and a place found for them to participate and earn a living. However, politicising this issue and offering unsustainable, short-term solutions will see the death knell for fish stocks in False Bay, which will do nobody any good in the long term.
Sincerely
strandwolf
Banned
Sorry C HOOK
Ido not agree with you as you do not have the facts nor the proof of what you are stating. As personal friend of Andy (no political affiliation) who fished this bay for more than 50 years personally and myself 30 years, you know squat.
Also we and ANC fishing desk do not sit together as they are just promising stuff for votes and got ousted by us at last 23/8 meeting at mcm.
i will ask the minister about your letter and let you know if she responded
Ido not agree with you as you do not have the facts nor the proof of what you are stating. As personal friend of Andy (no political affiliation) who fished this bay for more than 50 years personally and myself 30 years, you know squat.
Also we and ANC fishing desk do not sit together as they are just promising stuff for votes and got ousted by us at last 23/8 meeting at mcm.
i will ask the minister about your letter and let you know if she responded
Captain Haddock
Senior Member
Hi Wolfie
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.
If you read again you will see that I am not stating facts, but merely pointing out general thinking and attitudes amongst both the scientific and recreational communities. These have been gathered through much debate, consultation and experience on my part, and through engaging with various scientists at UCT and elsewhere.
I am also not personally attacking Andy, he may well be a cool guy. However, anyone who constantly reverts to race-based argument instead of highlighting real problems, and makes outlandish claims that commercial fishers should be allowed to police themselves, needs to be brought to book.
Last week on Strandfontein, I personally witnessed one well-known trekker bagging several tiny, way undersize kob and steenbras - this happens every single time these guys do a trek!
The sea must be managed for the benefit of everyone, not just commercials or trek fishers, in my humble opinion.
Watch the coming movie The End of the Line, you may change your tack a bit.
Regards
Captain
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.
If you read again you will see that I am not stating facts, but merely pointing out general thinking and attitudes amongst both the scientific and recreational communities. These have been gathered through much debate, consultation and experience on my part, and through engaging with various scientists at UCT and elsewhere.
I am also not personally attacking Andy, he may well be a cool guy. However, anyone who constantly reverts to race-based argument instead of highlighting real problems, and makes outlandish claims that commercial fishers should be allowed to police themselves, needs to be brought to book.
Last week on Strandfontein, I personally witnessed one well-known trekker bagging several tiny, way undersize kob and steenbras - this happens every single time these guys do a trek!
The sea must be managed for the benefit of everyone, not just commercials or trek fishers, in my humble opinion.
Watch the coming movie The End of the Line, you may change your tack a bit.
Regards
Captain
strandwolf
Banned
Captain Haddock wrote:
CH
in our discussion to get these nets back greement with compliance was met:
1. every net cod end will have a zip, to release the catch if the specie is not on the target list.
2. the local fco must be contacted prior to the cast of the net and only when on the scene the net be set.
3. all fish wrongly harvested will be collected by the fco, thus be sent to research at mcm.
4. fishing only daylight hours.
You and anyone have the right to phone compliance if the netter break these conditions.
Hi Wolfie
You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine.
If you read again you will see that I am not stating facts, but merely pointing out general thinking and attitudes amongst both the scientific and recreational communities. These have been gathered through much debate, consultation and experience on my part, and through engaging with various scientists at UCT and elsewhere.
I am also not personally attacking Andy, he may well be a cool guy. However, anyone who constantly reverts to race-based argument instead of highlighting real problems, and makes outlandish claims that commercial fishers should be allowed to police themselves, needs to be brought to book.
Last week on Strandfontein, I personally witnessed one well-known trekker bagging several tiny, way undersize kob and steenbras - this happens every single time these guys do a trek!
The sea must be managed for the benefit of everyone, not just commercials or trek fishers, in my humble opinion.
Watch the coming movie The End of the Line, you may change your tack a bit.
Regards
Captain
CH
in our discussion to get these nets back greement with compliance was met:
1. every net cod end will have a zip, to release the catch if the specie is not on the target list.
2. the local fco must be contacted prior to the cast of the net and only when on the scene the net be set.
3. all fish wrongly harvested will be collected by the fco, thus be sent to research at mcm.
4. fishing only daylight hours.
You and anyone have the right to phone compliance if the netter break these conditions.
Captain Haddock
Senior Member
Hi Wolfie
You state this as if it is a done deal - please confirm this is the case? There has been no public participation process to my knowledge so this is indeed puzzling.
My understanding is that the same restrictions apply to the current trek licence holders - and yet I have NEVER seen an official present at a trek! They just dont have the resources or the inclination...
Please share the number of who can be called if any of these terms are not met, in the interests of transparency?
Thanks
CH
You state this as if it is a done deal - please confirm this is the case? There has been no public participation process to my knowledge so this is indeed puzzling.
My understanding is that the same restrictions apply to the current trek licence holders - and yet I have NEVER seen an official present at a trek! They just dont have the resources or the inclination...
Please share the number of who can be called if any of these terms are not met, in the interests of transparency?
Thanks
CH
strandwolf
Banned
Captain Haddock wrote:
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"above your link to permit conditions, why public participate as this was public knowledge the last 6 years.
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"http://www.nda.agric.za/doaDev/fisheries/21_HotIssues/April2010/FishingPermitConditions2010.htmlHi Wolfie
You state this as if it is a done deal - please confirm this is the case? There has been no public participation process to my knowledge so this is indeed puzzling.
My understanding is that the same restrictions apply to the current trek licence holders - and yet I have NEVER seen an official present at a trek! They just dont have the resources or the inclination...
Please share the number of who can be called if any of these terms are not met, in the interests of transparency?
Thanks
CH
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"above your link to permit conditions, why public participate as this was public knowledge the last 6 years.
Captain Gurnard
New member
[/quote]
CH
in our discussion to get these nets back greement with compliance was met:
1. every net cod end will have a zip, to release the catch if the specie is not on the target list.
2. the local fco must be contacted prior to the cast of the net and only when on the scene the net be set.
3. all fish wrongly harvested will be collected by the fco, thus be sent to research at mcm.
4. fishing only daylight hours.
You and anyone have the right to phone compliance if the netter break these conditions.
[/quote]
But who is checking on the trekkers in Smits Winkle Bay, I have seen them load ski-boats with their catches of Yellow Tail and land them at night at Millers Point, 3 and 4 boats at a time
CH
in our discussion to get these nets back greement with compliance was met:
1. every net cod end will have a zip, to release the catch if the specie is not on the target list.
2. the local fco must be contacted prior to the cast of the net and only when on the scene the net be set.
3. all fish wrongly harvested will be collected by the fco, thus be sent to research at mcm.
4. fishing only daylight hours.
You and anyone have the right to phone compliance if the netter break these conditions.
[/quote]
But who is checking on the trekkers in Smits Winkle Bay, I have seen them load ski-boats with their catches of Yellow Tail and land them at night at Millers Point, 3 and 4 boats at a time
Captain Haddock
Senior Member
Hi Wolfie
That doc u posted, the links dont seem to work. Please could you just post the number of the compliance office if you have it?
My friends and I fish Simonstown a lot and are happy to know that the plan is to stay within the permit agreements. However, I would feel a lot better if we could have a contact if there are abuses.
I think thats the main issue between recreational and commercial fishers actually Wolfie. If commercials stuck to the regulations in terms of size, quota and target species, most recreationals would have no issue with them. But it seems like it goes against the grain to comply on a consistent basis.
The same applies to recreationals who bin undersize fish or catch above their quota, no mercy should be shown and they must be reported.
I have stood at Strand slip, where you work from, and seen the boats come in with bins and bins full of kob that were so small that they could not even be filleted...and its the same with the trekkers. The undersize fish go in the pockets, down the jacket, in the bins to be covered by haarders....it happens time and again. Every time they trek actually. In ten or twenty years time, will there be any fish left?
Maybe you make a habit of sticking within the rules, but you know as well as I that this makes you an exception. The guys at Simonstown and Glencairn will be watched like hawks by the yellowtail spinners there, I can promise you, so I hope they comply to the rules.
Best
CH
That doc u posted, the links dont seem to work. Please could you just post the number of the compliance office if you have it?
My friends and I fish Simonstown a lot and are happy to know that the plan is to stay within the permit agreements. However, I would feel a lot better if we could have a contact if there are abuses.
I think thats the main issue between recreational and commercial fishers actually Wolfie. If commercials stuck to the regulations in terms of size, quota and target species, most recreationals would have no issue with them. But it seems like it goes against the grain to comply on a consistent basis.
The same applies to recreationals who bin undersize fish or catch above their quota, no mercy should be shown and they must be reported.
I have stood at Strand slip, where you work from, and seen the boats come in with bins and bins full of kob that were so small that they could not even be filleted...and its the same with the trekkers. The undersize fish go in the pockets, down the jacket, in the bins to be covered by haarders....it happens time and again. Every time they trek actually. In ten or twenty years time, will there be any fish left?
Maybe you make a habit of sticking within the rules, but you know as well as I that this makes you an exception. The guys at Simonstown and Glencairn will be watched like hawks by the yellowtail spinners there, I can promise you, so I hope they comply to the rules.
Best
CH
strandwolf
Banned
MS A NORTIER CELL 0827718896
Captain Haddock
Senior Member
If I knew how to give mana, you would have some...
tackle whore
Senior Member
SURE SOME ONE WILL DISAGREE BUT HERE GOES
It looks great on paper all these regulationsand compliance rules but lets face its only a piece of paper, at the end of the day if we dont have the MCM personal to manage it it means jack##it .As a commercial line/tuna pole fisherman you need to sighn all types of paperwork relating to birds/sea mammals, yet they still shoot the shit out of the seals and no one does any thing , police/MCM just need to search a boat , why carry a shotgun onboard a snoek boat other than for seals we dont have pirates ?? more petrals/ albatross are clubbed to death 40 miles out by tuna crews for a 15 rand hook or smashed with a pole as they dive in the lok - what use is the paper now ? I know for a fact that when one trek fisherman calls MCM to come inspect the other one is further down the beach poaching undersize kob and steenbrass .Even went so far as to film the paochers in Hout Bay dropping off crayfish and pearlies , gave the info to the relevant parties , was told they knew who the paochers were but were not prepaired to do anything against them ......
SORRY GUYS once politics gets involved we all loose at the end of the day.
It looks great on paper all these regulationsand compliance rules but lets face its only a piece of paper, at the end of the day if we dont have the MCM personal to manage it it means jack##it .As a commercial line/tuna pole fisherman you need to sighn all types of paperwork relating to birds/sea mammals, yet they still shoot the shit out of the seals and no one does any thing , police/MCM just need to search a boat , why carry a shotgun onboard a snoek boat other than for seals we dont have pirates ?? more petrals/ albatross are clubbed to death 40 miles out by tuna crews for a 15 rand hook or smashed with a pole as they dive in the lok - what use is the paper now ? I know for a fact that when one trek fisherman calls MCM to come inspect the other one is further down the beach poaching undersize kob and steenbrass .Even went so far as to film the paochers in Hout Bay dropping off crayfish and pearlies , gave the info to the relevant parties , was told they knew who the paochers were but were not prepaired to do anything against them ......
SORRY GUYS once politics gets involved we all loose at the end of the day.