STUPID & UNSUSTAIBLE LAWS RE CATCH LIMITS OF COLLAPSED STOCKS

[andrewb]

SA Catch limits are stupid and unsustainable.
 
I am really amazed that we are allowed to catch fish from stocks that governments own scientists tell them have collapsed.
 
As far as I know most of our reef fish are in trouble and this has a lot to do with the late age at which they reach maturity.
As far as I know the following fish stocks are below 5% of what they should be but you can still legally remove them from the ocean: Kob;  Geelbek; Dageraad;  Black, white and red steenbras; stumpnose; catface rockcod.



There are probably more black rhinos in Africa than big steenbras - (thats my own opinion).

 
I am also amazed that many angling competitions allow these fish to be killed  and then win prizes!  Their attitude is “well its legal” which is really morally and ethically weak.  Do they need a law to stop them sleeping with kids or killing people they don’t like?  They know that these species are nearly gone but as long as the law says its legal then they will kill the last one.  Fishing shops that support this are very short sighted.
 
I believe anglers should ask to government to place these species on the prohibited list until there stocks recover above 20%.  I also have an issue with the prohibited category as this prevents fishing for or being in possession of those species but with good catch and release methods I believe almost all the caught fish will survive.
 
If I am wrong about any species or excluded any please correct me.

 

[kirk]

youre not wrong , however I have the opinion that the stocks have and are depleted by the badly regulated commercial side as well as Ill disciplined rec anglers amongst us all, I would safely assume the former has the most impact due to commercial demand hence I never buy a fish product from I&J and the likes ever make my own fish fingers/cakes for the kids , if i want to eat fish I go try catch one, easier said than done. ok for us at the sea but not so lekker for u okes inland sorry, ( I hate to raise a bad word but here in the cape trecknetting- yellowtail by  the entire shoal??) but that said its allowed and as such continues even when the fish are in spawn?????.

This country has to move to slot sizes if it wants to protect its fish combined with other restrictions to keep the balance of supply and demand in check. Im not an expert but feel if other countries have come to this conclusion why are we always trying to reinvent the wheel?

Just look at the new Kreef regulations in place?- they have cut the recreational period in half, combined with the unpredictable weather. I have only managed two excursions on the deemed days by government order. The total allowable catch has not been reduced but been given to the commercials at the expence of recreationals. Go figure ?

 Look at bit deeper Our President has to produce 5 mill jobs ?? in the next few years, I bet a big part of it will be aimed at fishing???

 

[Dingleberry]

I think you hit the nail on the head Kirk. Slot limits turned the Striped Bass and Bluefish stocks around in the States as far as I'm aware.

 

[andrewb]

The commercial boats do take more fish but the big boats dont target reef fish with nets.  The reef fish have been decimated by small commercials, spearfishermen and recreationals. 

Close inshore fish like the once abundant galjoen have hardly been affected by commercials and their collapse is due almost entirely to recreational anglers and the fact that they only reach sexual maturity at five years.  On the west coast they have apparently been hit hard by gill nets but the MPA's are saving them and supplying much of the stock.

If you will acknowledge that commercials hardly affected the galjoen you can see that recreationals have a much bigger impact on fish stocks than many realise.

Something else thats really stupid (but off topic)  is how recreational anglers litter when they leave a fishing spot!  Utterly amazing how seemingly nice guys think nothing of leaving plastic bags, nylon, bottles etc  behind or shark baits rotting in stagnant pools. Bait suppliers should put an awareness message on their bait packets.

Anyway we really need to band together and approach goverment about protecting our collapsed stocks

 

[kirk]

we are all ears please put pen to paper?, agree some species are more affected i.e galjoen however most of the guys on this site are all for protection and regulate  their catches i.e most keep one or two for the pan and have great joy in releasing sized specimens for a later day. Ps Lol I have yet to catch one or even taste one? living here for 8 odd years tried but not hard enough, its a skill even if they are bountifull trust me they are fickle little buggers.

Regarding litter thats a problem we all have, some do and some dont it infuriates any decent angler. Often I come back from surf fishing with some rubbish in the back of my truck I collected that someother dick left behind, do your bit . If you see someone littering have a nice chat to them I do and Im not the biggest oke around I make them feel really stupid when they see me pick up their rubbish and toss it in the back of the bakkie without saying a word- they get the message.

By the way youre ranting it sounds like you want a total ban on all fishing?LOL.

 

[Conservnsea]

andrewb wrote:

The commercial boats do take more fish but the big boats dont target reef fish with nets.  The reef fish have been decimated by small commercials, spearfishermen and recreationals. 

Close inshore fish like the once abundant galjoen have hardly been affected by commercials and their collapse is due almost entirely to recreational anglers and the fact that they only reach sexual maturity at five years.  On the west coast they have apparently been hit hard by gill nets but the MPA's are saving them and supplying much of the stock.

If you will acknowledge that commercials hardly affected the galjoen you can see that recreationals have a much bigger impact on fish stocks than many realise.

Something else thats really stupid (but off topic)  is how recreational anglers litter when they leave a fishing spot!  Utterly amazing how seemingly nice guys think nothing of leaving plastic bags, nylon, bottles etc  behind or shark baits rotting in stagnant pools. Bait suppliers should put an awareness message on their bait packets.

Anyway we really need to band together and approach goverment about protecting our collapsed stocks

You're wrong about the galjoen andrewb.  This is a migatory species - the furthest migration being around 3200kms where one was tagged on the Namibian coast to where it was re-caught at Chintsa.

Stocks of galjoen were decimated by commercial netting in False Bay and thereabouts where they congregated on their spawning migrations.  The late John Wiley Minister of Environment Affairs in the previous government outlawed this practice circa 1984.

But by then it was too late.  The damage was done.  The stocks won't recover in our lifetimes.  The same netting is still occurring with white steenbras.

You're also incorrect about netting and reef fish.  Sometime ask the Xmasvale guys about how the Ciskei licensed trawler Ocean Pearl destroyed their fishing in the 1980's.  If vessels are not deploying nets and longlines for our reef fish, what were the longliners Seawin Sapphire and Seawin Diamond doing when they were repeatedly seen in the Border Closed Areas and off Transkei..?

And what are the vessels doing close inshore at night off the Transkei coast..?

 

[andrewb]

Conservensea I quote from a paper in African Journal of Marine Science 2005 by CG Attwood and PD Cowley:  There was a very large tagging programme of  25 191 galjoen done and "the vast majority of fish were recaptured (2174) at the site of release."  "it is estimated that 95% of tagged fish remained at the release site. The remaining 5% moved throughout the SA range of galjoen, which was seperated from the Nambian range."   "though not territorial galjoen do hold home ranges which was estimated to be no larger than 1.38km in extent but probably much smaller"

Not many people are aware of that but that does explain why there are so few galjoen outside the MPA's.

I only yesterday heard of the TKei netting by trawlers.  I dont know why these ships were not confiscated and the owners jailed. 

But i still believe any boat that goes out and still brings its legal limit back is doing tremendous damage to the few steenbras left.  I get sickened by the site of a 30 year old proudly displaying a dead black or red steenbras that was 10 years older than him.  Thats a prime breeding fish gone forever.  Nothing to be proud about killing the last few left.

 

[andrewb]

Kirk i am a passionate person so i do rant but i dont want us to destroy what we have.

Galjoen used to be plentiful - the reason you havnt caught one is that some people killed lots.   That pisses me off.

Good on you for helping keeping SA clean.

I would not want a ban on fishing as i love fishing but we have to save our endagered fish before their gone.  Good catch and release methods can be used though bringing them up from depths is probably too risky.

 

[Conservnsea]

andrewb wrote:

Conservensea I quote from a paper in African Journal of Marine Science 2005 by CG Attwood and PD Cowley:  There was a very large tagging programme of  25 191 galjoen done and "the vast majority of fish were recaptured (2174) at the site of release."  "it is estimated that 95% of tagged fish remained at the release site. The remaining 5% moved throughout the SA range of galjoen, which was seperated from the Nambian range."   "though not territorial galjoen do hold home ranges which was estimated to be no larger than 1.38km in extent but probably much smaller"

Not many people are aware of that but that does explain why there are so few galjoen outside the MPA's.

I only yesterday heard of the TKei netting by trawlers.  I dont know why these ships were not confiscated and the owners jailed. 

But i still believe any boat that goes out and still brings its legal limit back is doing tremendous damage to the few steenbras left.  I get sickened by the site of a 30 year old proudly displaying a dead black or red steenbras that was 10 years older than him.  Thats a prime breeding fish gone forever.  Nothing to be proud about killing the last few left.

It's a sad day if the debate on fishing descends into the emotive imagery and language used by animal rightists and radical welfarists in the anti-hunting debate.  The person being criticized for photographing his/her fish is the kind of person who needs to be converted to the cause of conservation, not denigrated.

The majority of people will be converted to conservation of fish species because they want to continue catching (killing) and photographing them.  When they're convinced that conservation efforts will result in more and bigger fish to catch they'll join the cause.

The message shouldn't be that there's anything wrong with killing and photographing fish - it should simply be we've got to ensure that what we're doing is sustainable now and into the future.

There are many ways of doing this, but the most effective is to ensure that illegal plunder is stopped.  That way one gains credibility with fishermen and responsible authorities.  The next is to ensure that laws are equitable and actually contribute to the perpetuation of the species being targeted.

In your sights currently are the legal sport/recreational fishermen who do the least damage to sustainability of fish species.  Even your criticism of the laws is aimed at them.  What is the sense in berating sport fishermen to stop their practices and to even practice tag-and-release when for every billfish they release, thousands of tonnes are being legally plundered by longliners..?

The guys aren't that dumb.  They know the fish species aren't being conserved by the authorities because of some philanthropic sense of conservation of biodiversity - they're being conserved so that commercial fishermen can plunder them again when the stocks recover, like they did to cause them to collapse in the first place.

In the commercial heyday at Kei Mouth, upwards of 20'000 and possibly even as many as 50'000 fish were being landed per annum, mostly slow-growing reef species.  Catches of up to 90 red steenbras a day per boat were seen.  It's doubtful whether the entire sport/recreational skiboat fraternity exceeds 1500 fish a year currently.

The focus should be to sustain the economic activity generated by sport fishing (yes, even cameras..!) and to prove to the authorities it's economic worth, employment capabilities and it's ability to transform society through racial desegregation and upliftment of previously disadvantaged folk. 

Now all that is a lot more difficult than tackling some innocent soul who is photographed with a fish.  But if one really cares about conservation of biodiversity of marine life, unfortunately it's the more difficult route one must take to achieve meaningful results.

But if it's "feel good" and publicity one's after, well ... the lessons taught by the animal rightists in the terrestrial debate are well worth following..!

 

[andrewb]

  Conservnsea you may well be right that what is needed is a more informative approach and I tried that before several times for example - the Captain Morgan comp that used to reward pics of whoever had the biggest dead fish - nobody paid the slightest attention to my suggestions over months  about changing the comp to C&R until I told the brand owners in London that I would get them negative publicity.  That worked and they changed to a catch and release format.   
I know that people like Bruce Mann have been speaking to people about these issues for years e.g. asking in 2006  SADSAA that comps use more C&R and I see that they seem to be taking this more seriously, rewarding released fish with bonus points.
 
Asking the Japanese etc to stop killing whales for “research” didn’t do anything but militant action against the whalers has. Whatever you may think of the Sea Shepard Capt Paul Watson, he is probaly prepared to die for his cause.  In fact I think thats a condition of being on his boats - to be prepared to die for the cause so it not for "cheap publicity or a feel good factor".  I am not after publicity or feel good – I want to save the fish.  If I could I would devote much more time and money to that end.
 
Stopping the illegal plunder would be great but that industry is bigger than the commercial one, apparently by about a third.
 
I agree that we have to get the laws changed to be sustainable as a law allowing the harvesting of Red/Copper Steenbras, which it has been suggested are now below 1% of what breeding stock should be, is not sustainable.
 
My criticism of the laws is not aimed at recs – it is aimed at all harvesting of endangered species – except for genuine research.
 
While there are several fish that are NOT allowed to be sold Baardman; Blacktail; Brindel Bass; Bronze Bream, Striped Catshark; Galjoen; Garrick; Jan Bruin; Kingfish; Knifejaw; White Musselcracker; Natal Wrasse; Pompano; Potato Bass;River Bream; River Snappert; Sawfish; 74; Spotted Grunter; Spotted Gully Shark; Springer; White and West Coast Steenbras; Cape & Natal Stumpnose it is incredible that given the severely collapsed stocks that the Red & Black Steenbras can still be sold.  There is some disagreement about kob but scientist suggest their stock is about 2.5%.  Scientists (I am not one) believe that below 20% stocks may not recover.
 
I would especially like to see Black and Red Steenbrass totally protected.  I know that there are anglers, commercials and spearfishermen who know these fish are almost gone but as long as the law says so they will continue to kill them.  I don’t think talking to these guys will help.  And they certainly wont sign petitions to save the species and a few of them will be happy to kill the last big one.
 

 

[MOGGY]

This isa very interesting debate and I see that conservnsea's best catch is a Red Steenbras ( hope it was released ) LOL

I used to be a hon conservation officer, up untill last week and what sickens me is the commercial industry with its  "legal " bycatch.

When you see six crates of baardman offloaded from an inshore trawler as bycatch and when the hake longliner has exactly the right bycatch quota of Kingklip onboard, which the skipper sells.

The geeelbek is now only coming right and this is becuase we campained to have the A licence removed from the chokka deckboats that were coming in with seven tons of frozen beaks. One whole fishing club does not catch that much in a year. The problem was that these fish were being caught in natural consevation areas, which were too far for norma commercials and reccreationals to travel too.

You only need to read up on how many big red steenbras were caught on the Alphard banks and even recently a vessel was caught at gansbaai with tons of coppers on board. I aske Dr. Mark Griffiths about the effect at a MLMC meeting once and he agreedthat that had a profound effect on the stocks, because the juviniles were brought inshore by a current, which replenished our stocks.

The one big problem is the amount of recreationals that still sell their catches.

 

[andrewb]

 Moggy how does one become an honary conservation officer and why did you stop?

 

[MOGGY]

To become a HFCO ( honarary fisheries control officer ) you have to speak to the person in charge of the area that you wish to get involved with.

If they wish to appoint you, you willhave to get a policfe clearance and you will be given an induction course.

The minister will have to sign your appointment.

You cannot fine people unless you do another course.

I stopped, because I was not giving it enough time, because I also do skippers courses and survey boats.

 

[shuraj]

tHank you gusy this was very interesting and informative .