This torium i serviced for a client off to de hoop lucky man. The rachet plate and aftermarket dog fitted failed. I serviced and fixed the reel correctly and fitted my own dog plate and dog made from 316 stainless. The reel got the standard corrosion treatment as it was now showing signs of corrosion, this is the white you see on the frame after cleaning. The leather drag i took out and dumped and fitted rulon drags. Both gears now needed replacement as the broken teeth of the dog plate lodged in the main gear teeth effectively destroying the gearing on this poor reel. Have a peek
Reels for De Hoop Nature Reserve
- Thread starter old salt
- Start date
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
Nice worksmanship Old Salt!
My opinion is that the Anti-Reverse bearing is only there slow down the backlash and while it is strong enough to fight a fish on a lighter drag without needing the assistance of the dog pawl it is certainly not strong enough with heavy drag settings. Under high drag settings I believe that the ARB only reduces / slows down the backlash until the dog pawl can take up the load.
If you look at the design of the Dog gear in a SL30 you will see why, it has much longer "teeth"
And the lines you are fishing on a SL30 will not cause slip in the ARB so your observation would be correct when fishing eds on 0,40 line.
But then spool a Tor30 with 0,55 and hang onto a big shark and you will have a different scenario.
I wouldn't comment on what the designers were thinking when they designed it but the way we use the reels here I firmly believe the Dog Pawl is playing the major role and that is why spring loading the Dog Pawl had almost wiped out the common Anti Reverse failure that plagued the Toriums.
And the lines you are fishing on a SL30 will not cause slip in the ARB so your observation would be correct when fishing eds on 0,40 line.
But then spool a Tor30 with 0,55 and hang onto a big shark and you will have a different scenario.
I wouldn't comment on what the designers were thinking when they designed it but the way we use the reels here I firmly believe the Dog Pawl is playing the major role and that is why spring loading the Dog Pawl had almost wiped out the common Anti Reverse failure that plagued the Toriums.
Hi Fluke, you making a lot of sense there. The answer is plain to see. There are loads of reels functioning on only AR bearings without any problems but they also running lighter lines and taking less strain too. Personally the positive dog set up is hard to beat and this will always be the case from what i see. The only way to eliminate AR failure is to do what shimano did with the talica and have 3 abu style dogs locking at different intervals in relation to each other. The DC reel engineers designed this old school dog set up and double length roller bearing because of all the problems with AR failure. This in itself should from design and engineering point tell one something strong. AR bearings work well when they are looked after accordingly, not exposed to water, not exposed to silt and sand when wading and kept oiled regularly. This prevents wear on the fingers which wear not the rollers themselves. When corrosion starts on the sleeve and AR it destroys the casing and fingers, clearance increases between the sleeve and the rollers leading to failure.
Simple isnt it.
Simple isnt it.
Got to agree Old Salt, I love your passion and approach to reels!!
To put this in perspective I have already had a Finnor20 with 0,45 that was in immaculate condition and I was fighting a Duckbill. Near the end of the fight the dog pawl stopped engaging and the anti reverse bearing could not hold. The handle kept turning slowly backwards the minute I let go of it. That alone was proof enough for me that an ARB is dependent on the dog pawl.
To put this in perspective I have already had a Finnor20 with 0,45 that was in immaculate condition and I was fighting a Duckbill. Near the end of the fight the dog pawl stopped engaging and the anti reverse bearing could not hold. The handle kept turning slowly backwards the minute I let go of it. That alone was proof enough for me that an ARB is dependent on the dog pawl.
The ARB is designed to hold x amount of force before it will slip. Once the force exceeds x then the handle will turn backwards until the dog pawl engages. The pawls engage with very little backlash so you'll never feel it.
If you fish light line and light drags then you may never exceed x so you never engage the dog pawl.
All my shark reels have imprints of the dog gear teeth in the dog pawls. That added to my reference of the Finnor20 above prove that the dog pawl carries the load at high drag settings.
If you fish light line and light drags then you may never exceed x so you never engage the dog pawl.
All my shark reels have imprints of the dog gear teeth in the dog pawls. That added to my reference of the Finnor20 above prove that the dog pawl carries the load at high drag settings.
Hi Fluke, you are spot on the number here my friend. We on the same page finally someone who says something who understands in practise how things work. There are a lot of internet access points to get and obtain information as well as misinformation on any topic, this is great but the people providing information arent always clued up and often dont understand how reels function from a mechanical side. Before one can go into depth like in the AR subject one needs to understand 1 how a roller bearing design really functions and 2 how the antireverse dog works in conjunction. They compliment each other in real terms. Any antireverse bearng is designed to only carry and hold a certain load, this is design. When this load is exceeded it fails as it cannot do anything else. Then the humble positive dog becomes the most important thing especially if you have a big fish on the other end. Like with you when this second failsafe goes your knuckles will certainly let you know about it in a big hurry. The one relys on the other to provide a solid lock up. Some people get more technical than practicle. I love your practicle approach, you have my vote for president sir.
The torium, trinnie, finmor, quantum, saltist, saltiga, some grinders all use the same AR bearing. Then you look at the DC a double length roller which enables much much higher load carring ability and has a positve engaging dog thus zero failures.
The penn fathom had issues initially with not failing but squeaking rollers, not penns fault but the supplier to penn, i have been very involved with that issue. Since then roller was corrected and the roller alone holds a massive 126kg if i recall before it slips,this is most impressive for a small roller indeed. The abu reels have been using the same roller for a long time without issues. This is an extremely interesting topic and i am glad comments have come onboard from those whom posted. All shimano rollers come greased from the factory, i very otfen grease them too but the correct kind of grease and correct viscosity is important. If you unsure use light oil to keep it functioning proporly. Perhaps now you will come to understand why i do reels not because of money but because i am very passionate about them all Daiwa and Shimano also in leu of the constant debate. Guys ask me dont you get bored doing the same thing, the simple fact is its seldom the same thing as reels have different issues in the same make and model. I love what i do, this will never change. So look after your roller bearings follow the tips i have provided and if you do i am certain you will have trouble free AR issues. Lastly use a light oil that clings to your dog where it mounts on the dog post this will ensure it works perfectly all the time.
The penn fathom had issues initially with not failing but squeaking rollers, not penns fault but the supplier to penn, i have been very involved with that issue. Since then roller was corrected and the roller alone holds a massive 126kg if i recall before it slips,this is most impressive for a small roller indeed. The abu reels have been using the same roller for a long time without issues. This is an extremely interesting topic and i am glad comments have come onboard from those whom posted. All shimano rollers come greased from the factory, i very otfen grease them too but the correct kind of grease and correct viscosity is important. If you unsure use light oil to keep it functioning proporly. Perhaps now you will come to understand why i do reels not because of money but because i am very passionate about them all Daiwa and Shimano also in leu of the constant debate. Guys ask me dont you get bored doing the same thing, the simple fact is its seldom the same thing as reels have different issues in the same make and model. I love what i do, this will never change. So look after your roller bearings follow the tips i have provided and if you do i am certain you will have trouble free AR issues. Lastly use a light oil that clings to your dog where it mounts on the dog post this will ensure it works perfectly all the time.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
Your working with the different reels day in and day out and having a passion for them makes it really great for the plebs like me that would never get exposed to all the different gear. I would never know what fails and why and who shares the same AR bearing or why they fail, according to the manufacturers, they are all the latest and greatest and all have the best AR and none fail
And when we've spent a pretty penny on them and they do break, it's nice knowing there is a place to send them to get some love!
And when we've spent a pretty penny on them and they do break, it's nice knowing there is a place to send them to get some love!
Good morning All, a quick one before im stuck into the tuna internations reels.
Why does the stella cost so much, why is it thr premier reel in the grinder line up, what sets it apart beside being built rock solid, check it has a decent anti reverse bearing and rocl solid housing so total rigidity under extreme load
Why does the stella cost so much, why is it thr premier reel in the grinder line up, what sets it apart beside being built rock solid, check it has a decent anti reverse bearing and rocl solid housing so total rigidity under extreme load
Attachments
Then the cherry on cake guys look here a dog that works positvely all of the time. Look closely on the left see the dog cam and dog pawl held in place by the screw. You pay more for these refinements also.
This is part of what places these range of grinders in their own class, build, design, quality, form and function. NICE.
This is part of what places these range of grinders in their own class, build, design, quality, form and function. NICE.
