Put prisoners to work for the good of our environment?

Q

QAZA

Senior Member
With our overcrowded prisons, be it with inmates who committed hard core, white collar or petty crimes, having a luxury life with 3 meals a day, cellphones, tv, drugs etc etc available to all thanks to the high rate of corruption in our government systems (or lack of it), and lack of the death penalty:-

Suggestions what to do with all the undesired elements living on our taxes, by implementing a plan/system that will boost our economy and, most of all, put our environment back in check with sustainability in mind.

Maybe get them to start cleaning our river systems starting and Gauteng and work there way down to the ocean?
Maybe start digging a trench in St Lucia to open the lake system again?

Tell us your thoughts.
 
K

kolstert 8*

New member
Honestly I dont think the wardens will be able to control them outside. As for a luxury life behind bars? No such thing - just looking out for yourself is a 24hr a day work. When a gang member wants to upgrade his position, he dont care who gets in his way.

But I like your idea. Prisons are seriously overcrowded and despite all the nice words of ministers etc, little is done to rehabilitate them (prisoners).
 
T

trevour

Senior Member
I agree. Prisoners should have to earn the food they eat, and the bed they sleep in. That's how the real world which they will be released into is supposed to work.

If they don't learn how to do an honest days work, what is the point. It certainly would be an upgrade to the education described by Kolstert, which they are currently receiving before being released. a
 
S

Serra Moz

Sealiner
Good idea, thought, notion................

Sadly it won't work, they (Prison Services) can hardly control them inside, outside it will be complete chaos!

I agree, a man has work for his food, pay back for his sins/crimes - chain gang!

Also if the conviction rates were higher, and the corrupt culprits ends up behind bars, you might find 80% of the parliament/Govt workers shackled together.....cleaning up rubbish.

Can only imagine Selebi & Shaik picking up rubbish!
 
T

trevour

Senior Member
It can be done without infringing on his human rights.

It would need to be a completely new system run by honest people - so don't hold your breath!
 
O

OvaR8ed

Sealiner
laat die bliksims klip kap binne in die courtyard, en as jy werk kry jy vleis op jou bord, nie boontjies nie...
 
S

speartackle

Senior Member
Fantastic idea, but as many of the previous comments rightly pose problems with this good suggestion, there are many more crooks on the outside than on the inside. What can be done about that?
 
S

Simen

Sealiner
Guys reading your comments, makes me think back to the past, not so long ago just to about 1994

Prior to that the SA Prison system was still a system

Before I carry on let me just again say that this thread must not become a political issue - Sealine rule is that we do not discuss politics on the forum

OK -- all the things you guys are wanting was in the happening before 94

Barberton Prison was a farm whre inmates use to farm vegetables, pigs, cattle and fruit. It was farmed to such an extent that they supplied most of the prisons in the country with this produce.

Pretoria central was known for its steel work workshops and even manufactured articles on tender for thr outside public.

I stand corrected a Natal prison use to farm fish, also distributed to other prisons.

So this is nothing new except that we have a new system and a thing called human rights, so human that while you are in prison you may vote and not work
 
S

speartackle

Senior Member
We used to have prisoners brought to the farm in Hout Bay in the 70's. They were used to clear bush and form fire-breaks.

They were left in your sole control and were collected at 3.30pm.  No guard or anything of the sort was left to oversee for the day.

A dozen inmates cost R7 for the day!!!

In all those days only one made a dash for it - his name was Rudy. I'm not sure whay I remember all that?
 
B

Beeslek

New member
So how does my human rights work then?I have to work 12-14 hours per day just to survive.Then my hard earned tax money has to pay for that criminal's daily upkeep?Food,water,place to sleep,medical care etc???I have to pay for all of that myself while the criminal who robbed me of my hard earned money gets it all for free???Just as a matter of interest,the cost of keeping one criminal behind bars is close to R1000/day.Food for thought.
 
P

Patrick

Sealiner
Make em work I say. Like they say, idle hands are the devil's workshop. Keep them busy all day long so there is no time to run illegal/gang activities in the prisons.
 
D

D5

Senior Member
I wish we can transform them into a fishes and release them to our oceans.

In this country to achieve what you all suggest and you are so right is possible just like my wish is.
 
K

kolstert 8*

New member
Guys what u say is so true. The majority sit and waste time in prison. A select few study and some perform labour associated with being in prison - cooks etc. There are many guys who are true criminals and should be locked up for good. On the other hand there are also many who made a mistake and are willing to work to repay society and come out a beter person on the other side.

Unfortunately identifying the good from the bad is going to be a monumental task. Some people are born liars and manupilators. So who will take the blame if something happens to joe public? Surely not the prison authorities, they cant protect an inmate from being attacked as it is now.

A good system run by good administration and correctly trained supervisors can and will work wonders in our prisons. But we are far away from that...
 
W

Walt

Sealiner
Inclined to agree with Kolstert based on this exact topic coming up as a suggestion on Cape Talk radio.

The immediate problem on Radio was as to who would monitor these prisoners,as wardens are disciplined in one particular methodology,and suddenly they will be thrown into another completely alternative one,and there is the added problem of Prisoners unsettling the inhabitants of a certain area,those ratepayers who fear for their family while prisoners work in their areas.

On paper,idea is great,but in reality,there is the unforeseen happening such as shortage of monitors,wardens,etc,which could lead to paranoia should prisoners disappear in a certain area they may be allocated to.

Lots of thought has already been given to these ideas of utilising prisoners,and some prisoners would even benefit by being more constructive while in confinement if used properly, as it's a known fact that it can cause prisoners to become more destructive within the negativity of closed quarters due to Walls closeing in on them.

Food for thought though,and a good topic!
 
E

Ellafish

Senior Member
hello,

in 2010 it cost the goverment R147.00 per day to accomadate an individual prisoner. this is a fact and not sucked out of my them.
just thought i would supply you with the correct information its not R1000.

happy fishing, good post and interesting to know others thoughts on prisoners.
 
W

Walt

Sealiner
About 30 yrs ago,As an individual ,the man in the street could be put through the process at your nearest prisons of applying to 'Loan' prisoners for something like R28 pd which went into the prisoner on 'Loan',into his account.

You had to pass a process and be sworn in to be responsible for this means of utilising prison labour.

AB Khan,a good friend of mine,would regularly get 2 or 3 low risk prisoners daily to work in his garden ,and he provided food coffe,cigarettes, and must admit there never seemed a problem. They would be kept within sight and supervised by himself and one of his sons.

I mean what better way to rehabilitate a prisoner than being with a family and seeing a normal way of life.

Criminology and Ethnology syllabus's establishes that most criminals surface via their lack of roots,whereby Mom and dad are away,and offspring is left with aunt,uncle,neighbours,and that they have no knowledge of right from wrong when left on their own.

Can one still hire prisoners on loan,because I feel that was the way to go,especially with petty crime type criminals,depends on their prison status though?

Pollsmoor- This was a definite 'Program' like 30 yrs ago,but really not sure if this is still possible.If yes,there's nothing stopping you from putting these guys back into society,doing odd jobs at home,like painting,gardening,etc,and these skills could be useful to them when they are released into society again after completion of sentence.

I wanted to try this out,as I thought itd be doing the right thing for these types to get them on track,but never quite got down to it.

Cheers
 
Q

QAZA

Senior Member
Thanks guys for excellent posts, however, I would like to return to my original post of how the unwanted elements of society and be utilized for the benefit of our environment.
 
K

kolstert 8*

New member
Sorry Qaza, but you cannot make suggestions without looking at all the facts first. Is your idea of making them work for society a good idea? Absolutely! In reality it would probably cause more harm than good at this stage.

I do not enjoy paying for their upkeep. Neither do I enjoy paying taxes that some officials pocket for themself.

As for a luxury life behind bars - i repeat, there is no such thing.
 
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