JMAG

[Enigma]

"Any conductive material (aluminum certainly is conductive, all the power transmission lines across the country are aluminum cable) that moves through a magnetic field will have an electrical current induced, Faradays Law if you want to look it up. This is how an electric motor works or a generator in a power plant. When the magnet is placed close the the spinning spool, an electrical current is induced within the spool - easy.

What also happens is a phenomenon identified by Heinrich Lenz funnily enough called Lenz's Law. This states 'that the induced emf (elecro motive force) gives rise to a current that will always produce a force in the opposite direction' - something like that anyway, been a while since uni. It's about conservation of energy and equal and opposite forces etc Newtons third law.

Anyway, the spinning spool next to the magnet generates an internal electrical current that in itself generates a force that is opposite to the force causing it to spin in the first place!

This is the braking effect these mags cause. So the closer the magnet, or the stronger the magnet or indeed the faster the spool spins, the higher the current generated and therefore the magnetic braking effect it causes.

Also, as a matter if interest. The effective field strength of the magnet is exponentially related to the distance - so when the magnet is very close at it's maximum effect, it will loose force exponentially as it moves away, this means you don't move it far away to have a huge loss in braking force.

Move it from 1 to 2mm will be 4 times the loss in force, move it to 3mm and it's 9 times. So it's important to have the mag close as possible without touching for max braking and don't move it too far away too quickly or you'll blow up the reel!

A balance depending on the skill of the individual and also the conditions under which you're casting.

The other really cool thing when you think about it is as the spool slows so also reduces the braking force. This means otherwise you'd be forced to back off the magnets during the cast or it would stop fairly quickly, however....

Depending on the diameter of the spool and how much line is on there and what size line, the spool actually speeds up somewhat as the diameter of the spool reduces as line goes out.

This means it's actually increasing the braking effect! You'll notice therefore those casters invested in getting every last cm of distance will actually back off the mags, ie move them away from the spool during the cast as line goes out.

A tricky exercise but worth a few extra meters, but also hazardous as again you risk a blow up!

This is why Diawa invented the Millionare 7HTmag. This little gem works on the spinning inertia of the spool to automatically adjust the mag position during the cast and I believe is still the pinnacle of magnetic braking systems available today."

 

[Cuban Cigar]

I have been silent up to now, as I obviously have a vested interest in the field of Magnetic Cast Control Systems (just like Old Salt does) BUT .......

I have been fascinated by the charachteristics of the different systems and just how they affect the performance, the angler is getting from his favourite fishing reels and simply have to share this with you guys.

What I'm going to say now, does not come from the internet, but rather from casting and fishing (my boss can't afgord to pay me for all the overtime I work anually during tbe three month harvest, so he gives me lots of time off to go fishing and fiddling with magbrakes and casting those reels), heaps of different makes, models and sizes of multipliers and even 2-speed leverdrag reels like the Shimmy Talicas and FIN-NOR Saraquesas etc, as well as feedback from the vast number of anglers, using the system.

The knobby system is absolutely the standard choice in the field of competitive field casting - a very specialised sport,where powerfull rods are used,in conjunction with strong casting leaders and then thin diameter line, on tiny reels, mostly in the size class of the 6500 ABU Ambassadeur Rocket etc and the Daiwa HT7.(how else can Danny Moeskops & Co, measure casts of over 250m without running out of line on these tiny reels ?)

Now go do the maths and see what type of rpm's are generated, when these tiny, small diameter reels have to spool off, those kind of lengths of line in around 10 seconds or so, with no bait attached to slow things down dus to additional air resistance !

This combination of a very light spool @ high rpm's, is actually not the most difficult scenario to control, as the enertia of the little spool is not massive and that combined with the strong current built by the high rpm's, gives a lot of control, without having to use massively strong magnets.


With the tipical multipliers used for R&S fishing in South Africa, Namibia and Angola, it is a very different scenario, with much bigger reels and their heavier, larger diameter spools @ much lower rpm's, normally asking for bigger/ stronger magnetic fields for practical control.

It is also very interesting to experience, how the almost "self compensating" charachter as mentioned by Enigma, of the so-called "static system" that we fit, allow you to cast different sinker weights/lines/rods on exactly the same setting, without the need to readjust.

You will also be surprised to find, how fine you can adjust, the static systems, by sliding the magnet(s) just a mm or so outwards or inwards on the plate, in fact, actually a finer adjustment, than what even the finest thread on a knobby will allow.

Yes, you can not do this while the sinker is flying, but do you really want/need to ?

Lastly, the human nature of mankind, is to want to fiddle and adjust if at all possible and I wonder, if some of us might not be better of, to limited our own ability to adjust on the fly ?

Old Salt, enjoy the ride and take of time to go cast and fish these knobby's, you are certainly going to have hours of fun using them!

Cheers !

 

[Cuban Cigar]

Sorry for the terrible spelling, particularly towards the end - Escom loadshedding ate my mobile's battery and I had to rush to complete the post !

Anglers will now be spoiled for choice with both the "MAG-IT" and now also the JMAG and it will just be about your own preferance - ajustibilty from outside or inside, drilling or not, visible or not etc.

Well done Johno !

My wish remains - better casting reels for all - enjoy the ride !

 

[grootvis]

The professionals like D.Moeskops have developed a feel for the knobby, and perfected that for adjusting on the fly just like a formula 1 racing driver for his brakes. I certainly wouldn't recommend doing that, especially with braid on your reel. It is actually designed for the professionals. If braid was allowed at casting tournaments, do you think they would use it to cast 250+ meters? Just a question.

As with the internals, adjust once or maybe twice, and like you mentioned, you can cast without worry cast after cast and not worry about where you last left your adjustment , as what can happen with a knobby, it will be more difficult to see just how much you adjusted it and next throw...Bam.

This has been a very insightful thread from both sides of the coin and I think it has closed the doors to many doubts and makes the decision so much easier to make for me and perhaps others.

My final 2 cents from a fisherman's perspective:

Knobby = for more experienced professional casters, mainly surf casters with nylon.

Internal mag = Novice all the way through to professional. Surf, rocks and ledges(spinning). Surf and braid.
No mag at all = Henning Venter.....

 

[bambooskollie]

imported post

 

[Armand steenkamp]

grootvis, why only nylon with the knobby?

Regards

 

[grootvis]

Armand steenkamp wrote:

grootvis, why only nylon with the knobby? Regards

Armand, before I say anything and it gets exploded, I dont want to comment further on this thread as I do not require anymore motivating or technical data as I have now checked both types out and forced the internal and external suppliers to explain why each one works. If I weigh up the pro's vs cons for both its self explanatory to me which one will suit my needs better. For your answer, can you imagine trying to throw 200m on a fully loaded cast with no thumb and using braid and trying to fix it during a cast? Eina! Knowing me, I'm loskop, and might forget where I put my setting, and just now I leave it free mode and then ill be crying.....you know what I mean. Its just not for nylon , many people use braid with it, but are not trying to cast 200+ meters, the whole objective initially by the internal mag party, was to make easier casting reels...not necessarily furthest casting reels. And it just a fact that the knobby is not as easy as the internal mag. No-one can dispute that. The knobby wasn't purely designed for easy casting, it was give distance and control on that distance probably for the pendulum cast(im just speculating that one). Too many people here are comparing whats been around for years,in the US and UK , Euro,but in fact it has not been around the SA angling area for that long besides a handful of people.  There are approx. 1500 000 anglers in south africa, besides Bambooskollie and a few have taken it seriously in there fishing, most of the anglers are novice or intermediate and the internal mag will benefit them more than a knobby mag. The only added difference with a knobby is you can adjust it as needed during a cast, but that is not always a good thing. bambooskollie might be a good caster, but does he know how much that mag is actually assisting him. A good caster will be less noticeable and an novice more. The technical info is layed out in the thread, I got slated because I was asking the right questions that all should be able to read and understand both pro's and cons. If you state something is the best, prove it, not by test casting with impartial persons but give it to a man on the street who has never fished and then see if it works and which one is better, that is the only way to determine if a product works or not. Alot of good fisherman don't want distance but easier casting with braid and also nylon. Also just a very small factor, I have thought about, if you don't have the right guide layout on your rod, perhaps Old salt forgot to mention that, look at the  rod layouts these guys are using, nothing that we use here in SA. Again, take an ordinary off the shelf rod, standard cheapo guides and attempt it. By all means put braid on your reel, with external fitted mag and throw your hardest without thumbing and decide, but bear in mind you are experienced, others are not. I hope that helps. And thats just from a fishermans perspective!

MAG-IT takes away the human factor/error///no dispute. We all know what human error results in!

It would be hilarious if the adjusting thumbscrew seizes ever so slightly and you try loosen it and it is a bit stiff and all of a sudden it goes....that would be hilarious!!!

 

[bambooskollie]

grootvis wrote:

Armand steenkamp wrote:

grootvis, why only nylon with the knobby? Regards

Armand, before I say anything and it gets exploded, I dont want to comment further on this thread as I do not require anymore motivating or technical data as I have now checked both types out and forced the internal and external suppliers to explain why each one works. If I weigh up the pro's vs cons for both its self explanatory to me which one will suit my needs better. For your answer, can you imagine trying to throw 200m on a fully loaded cast with no thumb and using braid and trying to fix it during a cast? Eina! Knowing me, I'm loskop, and might forget where I put my setting, and just now I leave it free mode and then ill be crying.....you know what I mean. Its just not for nylon , many people use braid with it, but are not trying to cast 200+ meters, the whole objective initially by the internal mag party, was to make easier casting reels...not necessarily furthest casting reels. And it just a fact that the knobby is not as easy as the internal mag. No-one can dispute that. The knobby wasn't purely designed for easy casting, it was give distance and control on that distance probably for the pendulum cast(im just speculating that one). Too many people here are comparing whats been around for years,in the US and UK , Euro,but in fact it has not been around the SA angling area for that long besides a handful of people.  There are approx. 1500 000 anglers in south africa, besides Bambooskollie and a few have taken it seriously in there fishing, most of the anglers are novice or intermediate and the internal mag will benefit them more than a knobby mag. The only added difference with a knobby is you can adjust it as needed during a cast, but that is not always a good thing. bambooskollie might be a good caster, but does he know how much that mag is actually assisting him. A good caster will be less noticeable and an novice more. The technical info is layed out in the thread, I got slated because I was asking the right questions that all should be able to read and understand both pro's and cons. If you state something is the best, prove it, not by test casting with impartial persons but give it to a man on the street who has never fished and then see if it works and which one is better, that is the only way to determine if a product works or not. Alot of good fisherman don't want distance but easier casting with braid and also nylon. Also just a very small factor, I have thought about, if you don't have the right guide layout on your rod, perhaps Old salt forgot to mention that, look at the  rod layouts these guys are using, nothing that we use here in SA. Again, take an ordinary off the shelf rod, standard cheapo guides and attempt it. By all means put braid on your reel, with external fitted mag and throw your hardest without thumbing and decide, but bear in mind you are experienced, others are not. I hope that helps. And thats just from a fishermans perspective!

MAG-IT takes away the human factor/error///no dispute. We all know what human error results in!

It would be hilarious if the adjusting thumbscrew seizes ever so slightly and you try loosen it and it is a bit stiff and all of a sudden it goes....that would be hilarious!!!

If the thumbscrew becomes stiff it will be due to some kind of user error, the spring does not fuction the way you are assuming it does.
It cannot release as you think and spring into action by itself. It is purely there to hold the users setting in place.
These adjustable mags "knobbly" are unbelievably user friendly and robust.
They seldom if ever give problems.

I do know how much the mags assist me because I am a compentant caster without one. As Enigma says Practice Practice.
Every other casting session I have is with an unmagged GW50 or my Penn 500(my first Multiplier). Maxima 0.40mm mainline and maxima 0.60mm leader.
or alternatively the double tapered T-line I had made up.

You might like it for casting and spinning . It works well,
I Landed a few fish with no issues on it last season.
I have some samples still, so please let me know if you wanna try it.

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=95860&forum_id=62&highlight=grandwave


The adjustable mag is not ONLY adjustable during the cast but before and after the cast aswell. This makes them desirable for changing conditions throughout the fishing day . ie. Heavy 20- 25+ knot winds drumming you in the face or the ear all day.

One of the sole reasons I started playing with the mags was to get less over-runs and more distance in severe weather conditions while spinning.
You still need to be awake when you turn off the mags to get that extra metre . - LOL.
I went from a handful of over-runs during these sessions (K@K weather ) to a handful of them during a season.
Installing Mags are that positive as we all know. No matter what option you choose.
Saving lots of tackle, saving lots of cash.

I think you might be right about why the knobbly came into use, It being used for ease of control during the cast.

 

[grootvis]

Like you said...only human error can make it malfunction. I recall earlier this year, myself and Dr.Halibut, having a epic session with the tail and leeries in what must have been 40+ knots of wind into our faces, the fish generally will come right up against the coast in these conditions, so distance wasn't the problem, but for me the overrun before the plug landed. No matter how much you try to improve distance in the wind, if its Gail you not going to achieve distance at all all but have less overrun. I think me and you and all that have posted , are thinking for ourselves , I hope to see some guys who are novices or not good casters post questions to the actual guys who are making these. I'm just a fisherman, they are the technical guys. I'm keeping my mouth shut now and am going over to the freshwater section to check out some barbel! and maybe some freshwater magged reels.... BTW, this is an excellent thread about magnetic control mechanisms and although a bit hot, should actually be made a sticky as the information is very useful for anyone wanting to know....LOL Ok, nuff said.

 

[Cuban Cigar]

Hi bambooskollie !

I'm really sorry that you experienced my post, in the way you obviously did, judged by your reaction.

Possibly if you knew me in person, or have dealt with me yourself, you might have perceived it in a totally different way ?

The simple matter of fact is, that I was fearing, exactly what has happened now and thus, hesitated for so long to contribute to this specific thread.

I felt that it was a real pity though and that anglers interested in this topic, was loosing out, as I surely have something to contribute on the topic, after all the testing and experimentation I did and that is why I eventually succumbed and posted on the topic.

On the technical side, I'm not going to go into a long drawn out expanation on just why I say that you can actually make finer increments in adjustment with the "static adjustable" system and bore everyone on Sealine,
but it has to do with tbe angle of the sidewall of most spools and the effect of radius.
You are most welcome to PM me, should you want to discuss it.

Lastly, I did not attack Jonathan, when he stated that " the knobby adjustable style, is the best and only way forward", as this is an open forum and we are all entitled to our own opinions, Jonathan and myself included, as long as we play the ball and not the man.

In fact, you can check with Jonathan himself- a while back when he told me in person, that he was going the knobby route, I asked him to let ke know when he was ready to start fitting, so that I could refer customers to him, if they were adamand, that they want an externally adjustable system !

When I commented on "the nature of mankind, to want to fiddle and adjust", I did not simply pull it from fresh air, to suite any particular argument, it is fact and I saw that only too well, in the 19 years that I spent in the hunting/fishing/firearms business, when it came to the use of variable magnification riflescopes.

I'm sorry if anyone feels offended and I certainly hope Jonathan didn't, but it should be clear that it was not my intention and that it is only my putting guestionmarks around specific issues of a given topic, that we all learn.

Lastly, please keep in mind, that English is my second language and that what you perceived of how I explained myself, might not have been exactly what I intended.

Regards !

 

[bambooskollie]

 Cuban,

Hitting the nail on the head is not always the right thing to do on an open forum.

Hence the reason I retracted my post. 

Moving along - 

 

[Cuban Cigar]

Don't worry bambooskollie, after all the nitty gritty of differing opinions and hitting or misding the nail, we certainly do agree, that various angles of technology, can only help our sport and in particular, make it easier for both novice and expert, to enjoy better and safer casting, that will enhance our enjoyment and hopefully our ratio of success as well !

Keep on posting the info, to trigger carefull consideration of all the options !

Cheers !

 

[bambooskollie]

Do you have any Ball park prices for the unit with and without installation ?

 

[Whaler]

grootvis wrote:

The professionals like D.Moeskops have developed a feel for the knobby, and perfected that for adjusting on the fly just like a formula 1 racing driver for his brakes. I certainly wouldn't recommend doing that, especially with braid on your reel. It is actually designed for the professionals. If braid was allowed at casting tournaments, do you think they would use it to cast 250+ meters? Just a question.

As with the internals, adjust once or maybe twice, and like you mentioned, you can cast without worry cast after cast and not worry about where you last left your adjustment , as what can happen with a knobby, it will be more difficult to see just how much you adjusted it and next throw...Bam.

This has been a very insightful thread from both sides of the coin and I think it has closed the doors to many doubts and makes the decision so much easier to make for me and perhaps others.

My final 2 cents from a fisherman's perspective:

Knobby = for more experienced professional casters, mainly surf casters with nylon.

Internal mag = Novice all the way through to professional. Surf, rocks and ledges(spinning). Surf and braid.
No mag at all = Henning Venter.....

JA, all mags wat henning het is die op sy Hilux...

 

[tima]

I’m not a tournament caster but I am from the UK (although I now live in Australia) so I’m used to the various magnetic and brake block braking systems on reels although I haven’t used the 50 sized reels much: my SLOSH 50 seems to cast fine with EP90 oil in the bearings and the red blocks though.

Tournament casters in the UK used to use a mixture of brake blocks and oil viscosity to maximise their distances then someone tried adjustable magnets which allowed casters to reduce the mag braking while the sinker was still in the air to cast just that little bit further. The knobby type became the most popular: the large knobs on them make for easier adjustment while the sinker is in the air.

The distances that were obtained with the old brake block/oil combos weren’t far behind the magged reels the casters use now so in terms of fishing they are fine although you guys may find things different with the bigger reels you use. However if you get to the beach and the reel is set up to run fast and there is a head wind then you have to take the reel apart to change the blocks or oil which is a pain. With a knobby magged reel though you just turn the knob in or out or move the slider to suit the conditions which is easy. As someone said earlier it is easy to knock the slider so the knob is more practical.

As to adjusting the brake during the cast frankly you wouldn’t bother while you were fishing unless you were desperate for an extra few yards so you just “set and forget” as they say. If the wind changes or you change your sinker or bait size then you just adjust the magnet to suit before you cast and a smaller knob is fine for this. The springs built into the magnet assemblies will stop the knob moving accidentally.

I am going to try fixed mags in my 20/40 but haven't got around to it yet so cannot comment on them as such. Obviously though if you have a knobby mag or a slider you can adjust the reel without taking it apart which you can't with a fixed magnet reel. In terms of fishing though I would be surprised if there was much difference in the distance you cast between a properly set up fixed magnet reel and a knobby type and of course you don’t have to drill holes in the reel for the fixed magnet type.

So from my point of view if you want the flexibility  and the potential for slightly extra distance get a knobby otherwise the fixed magnets would be fine.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Pieter Immelman]

tima wrote:

I’m not a tournament caster but I am from the UK (although I now live in Australia) so I’m used to the various magnetic and brake block braking systems on reels although I haven’t used the 50 sized reels much: my SLOSH 50 seems to cast fine with EP90 oil in the bearings and the red blocks though.

Tournament casters in the UK used to use a mixture of brake blocks and oil viscosity to maximise their distances then someone tried adjustable magnets which allowed casters to reduce the mag braking while the sinker was still in the air to cast just that little bit further. The knobby type became the most popular: the large knobs on them make for easier adjustment while the sinker is in the air.

The distances that were obtained with the old brake block/oil combos weren’t far behind the magged reels the casters use now so in terms of fishing they are fine although you guys may find things different with the bigger reels you use. However if you get to the beach and the reel is set up to run fast and there is a head wind then you have to take the reel apart to change the blocks or oil which is a pain. With a knobby magged reel though you just turn the knob in or out or move the slider to suit the conditions which is easy. As someone said earlier it is easy to knock the slider so the knob is more practical.

As to adjusting the brake during the cast frankly you wouldn’t bother while you were fishing unless you were desperate for an extra few yards so you just “set and forget” as they say. If the wind changes or you change your sinker or bait size then you just adjust the magnet to suit before you cast and a smaller knob is fine for this. The springs built into the magnet assemblies will stop the knob moving accidentally.

I am going to try fixed mags in my 20/40 but haven't got around to it yet so cannot comment on them as such. Obviously though if you have a knobby mag or a slider you can adjust the reel without taking it apart which you can't with a fixed magnet reel. In terms of fishing though I would be surprised if there was much difference in the distance you cast between a properly set up fixed magnet reel and a knobby type and of course you don’t have to drill holes in the reel for the fixed magnet type.

So from my point of view if you want the flexibility  and the potential for slightly extra distance get a knobby otherwise the fixed magnets would be fine.

Cheers

Tim

Well said Tim

 

[old salt]

Good morning All, yesterday I spent the day working on the lathe and made these mag holders and adjusters for my JMAG. As you can note we are steadily progressing and just about ready to fit. This is made from stainless steel, and has a mulititude of magnets I use depending on the size reel being magged. Coincidently I got some reels from out of town to service and the one salitga 50 lever has the black dog tackle mag fitted. Now have a look at the pics I posted to see how much smaller the JMAG is, this means you have the functionality of the adjustable mag and it is more compact than the ones being made oversea. It is a high end product that will enable the seasoned caster as well as novice to get the maximum permissible performance out of there reels in terms of casting. When night fishing the mag can be adjusted a turn inner to ensure you dont have a crows nest while casting in the dark, what could be better. Maximum distance, maximum performance, no overwinds, trouble free night fishing what could be better than this by the simple turn of a dial takes a secind to adjust according to your personal preference. I am nearly ready to suppply and fit you can email me to jjfishmore@gmail.com. thanks.

 

[old salt]

More

 

[old salt]

My JMAG compared to the oversea black dog tackle one

 

[Johan9255]

Well done looks very promising