how to recognise a pap snoek

Johan

Senior Member
How can one determine whether a snoek is going to be pap or not?

There should be some signs to look for while the fish is still whole and then also after flecking.

After it has been frozen is there a way to determine whether its pap without thawing it? By looking at its colour?
 

Tsa

Senior Member
Good question Johan - Any of the old salts got some info on this? Anything to look for?
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
If only it were that easy, but it's not. The eyes on the fish caught that day will not vary enough for you to know what's going on under the skin.

Load up say 350 nice size snoek in a morning, then rush back to the wall to make market. All those fish were caught a few hours ago, all been properly broken and bled by experienced crew.

Some will be pap and some will not.
Now here's the odd part. It has nothing to do with breaking the neck. The die hards will argue this with me to their graves and the scientist may well support me on this.

By breaking the neck, you bleed the fish. Bleed one and don't another. You will see that the meat is richer (red) and you can see the blood from a mile away on the unbled fish BUT A snoek that's not been bled will still have firm flesh, so that blows the neck breaking theory out the water.

A properly bled snoek will not be red and the flesh will be a nice colour.
I will explain a Pap snoek the best I can. Take a piece of fresh fish and put it under fresh water then leave it for a few minutes. The flesh changes colour and goes "mushy". A pap snoek when cut open is like that, it feels too soft and mushy. Of coarse don't go near fresh water with any fish, that was just my explanation.

So why, how.
Depending on how the fish are stacked in the laatjies or your hatch and depending on how long your day is, will determine your pap rate.
The mushy flesh starts with the fish that swims a bit too much on the end of the line. It allows the acids etc to build. I never eat the ones we catch on rod and reel for myself. The quick 45sec handline fish is mine. It has not had time to build up acid or get the juices flowing. He is dead before he knows it.
Luckily for me on Vixen the hatches are ice cold inside, so it keeps fish better. We, if on a long day often turn the fish ie move them around in the hatch so they don't settle. Of coarse on a commercial boat with 400 fish that's easier said than done. But we not commercials are we. So turn the fish, they will keep better. Ice never does any harm and neither will a damp (water wrung out) towel placed on top of the fish.

So how will you know.
Hah, you won't, not always. Recently Earl Fenwick who for those of you who know is the Meneer of the bay felt around the back of our bakkie for two snoek. "No this ones pap, this ones too stiff, agh these two." Cut them open and guess what. PAP.
Now Earls got salt water in his veins and watching Earl fleck any fish is an artistic experience.

But my advice is this.
Squash the fish gently. You can feel the flesh is "mushy", it feels softer, almost detached from the skin. If you pick the snoek up and it has rigger and is stiff, it is not going to be an A grade fish either. Take your thumb and index finger, squash you forearm gently, you can feel the spring in the muscle. The ideal snoek feels like that, but as I say you will get one that proves you wrong.

What you will notice is the first cut of the flesh on a Pappy smells different. I flecked around 60 the other night at my mates who own a fish export comapny. They needed a hand and free beer was on offer. There were about 20 of us flecking, including ladies who do this for a living and we all agree that the paps smell different. I also think you can see a lighter blue tinge in the silver of the belly on the papper fish but some people think I am nuts. I also say you can smell snoek in the water when you hunt them. Fortunately a few experienced skippers do agree with me on that one.

Remedy:
90% of the time an extra heavy dose of coarse salt will draw the water out. BUT you must not lie the snoek flat. Hang them on a clothes line or like I have here at home, a long rope between two trees. Salt them, let the salt begin to draw for a few minutes and then hang them for about 40. You will see what looks like stalactites hanging from the edges.
The fish will firm up. Then shake off excess salt.

Best fish care-
Fleck the fish you want out at sea or as soon as you hit the wall. Salt it asap and then bag it. Shake excess salt off before you cook and I have even wiped off extra salt with a quick hand and sea water. Take some sea water home with you, I often go down to the beach if I forget, especially when it comes to tuna.

But tuna prep is a whole different ball game - Hey Miles!::S
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
Ok Ice!!!

Let me explain. This is shaved ice mixed with salt water. NB Salt water.
Ice and water (fresh) are going to destroy the flesh.
I for the snoek normally just use 2l bottles of water frozen to make big ice bricks. So when they melt you don't have water.
Like I said, I am lucky with hatches that keep very cold.

Salt and Ice = slurry and is more for Tuna. Although if I remember to ice up, it's great for keeping yellowtail in pristine condition.
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
BVista,  are you talking about the surface one would fleck on.
According to many an old salt, my toppie included, it was taboo to cut, fleck fish on metal surfaces, the stainless around the sink was mentioned once when I was younger.

I never work on a metal surface, normally an old wooden desk, but that's just because knives and mettle surfaces and me don't like one another.
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
I can remember catching around 60 natal snoek and it think top Cuda day was 36 between 2 of us, most of the Cuda came from the old West Street pier and the shotgun of battery beach Natal Command in '79 on that day. We still turned them and cleaned them at sea. No mission.
My old man covered fish in wet hessian bags from as long as I can remember.

I will post on proper tuna prep at a later stage. On my boat if you gaff in the belly or meat you get a quick snot klap and will sure as hell if it's Tuna not be found on board again. Way I see it, is if you going to take it out, make sure you get the best out of it and treat it with the utmost respect. I'll rather lose a fish at the gaff than destroy the flesh.

Fresh Cuda, caught and kept on ice is insane. As is wahoo. Throw it in the hatch and it is not nearly as nice as if it has been treated with some respect. Gut the dorries too at sea straight after being caught and put on ice. Makes a world of difference. Thrashing fish on a deck buggers it up. Lie on the deck while I ride at 34knots and see what you look like he he. Wrap the leader around the Dorries tail so the fish is hooked in the mouth and the leader around its tal. If you arc the fish, it then cant move. Put it out it's mysery and gut. No wild crash bash etc.

I see so many guys lob fish into a hatch and then clean it at the club. Yellowtail. Gut it the minute the fishing goes quiet or as you land it. Longfin, straight into slurry asap.
 

LX

New member
Hey guys, sorry to break it to you, but whether a snoek is pap has nothing to do with how you store it or how long you fight it on the line. Google "Kudoa thyrsites" and you'll discover that pap snoek is caused by this bacteria like critter that one finds in almost all snoek...if there are a lot of these things in the snoek, then it will go pap (still not poisonous for human consumption, just not lekker). This is quite commonly known among marine bioligists, but not by fishermen...so one finds all kinds of other theories (ice storage, length of fight) to try to explain it.
 

Dorado75

Sealiner
LX wrote:
Hey guys, sorry to break it to you, but whether a snoek is pap has nothing to do with how you store it or how long you fight it on the line. Google "Kudoa thyrsites" and you'll discover that pap snoek is caused by this bacteria like critter that one finds in almost all snoek...if there are a lot of these things in the snoek, then it will go pap (still not poisonous for human consumption, just not lekker). This is quite commonly known among marine bioligists, but not by fishermen...so one finds all kinds of other theories (ice storage, length of fight) to try to explain it.

yo are very right here, but there are other factors that accelerate the process of going pap, like warm water and catching on light tackle, and of you dont break the neck i will guarantee you that it will be going pap!

Did you know that they have the same species in New Zealand, Thyrisites atu, but their ones dont have the same bacteria and never go pap!
 
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