Catfish info

[Skuimkop]

So by the look of things we have established that with fish heads we use two types of hooks namely circle hooks and J-hooks. We use either one hook or combine it with another with bigger baits. Both have there strengths and weaknesses. And we rig them either through the flesh or as a hair rig. By the sound of it circle hooks are preferred with the single hook and smaller bait rigs whereby the J-hooks come more in to play with the two hook rigs and the bigger baits. Also it seems that the rigging of the hooks seems to change when moving over to the bigger baits.

My question now is can we combine the two hooks on one big bait? How will this influence how you set the hooks? Kap or no kap? Does the mechanics of such a rig really alter the way you would normally set the hooks? In my opinion not really and I'll explain after a few insets from you guys.

 

[Fishpaste]

I would not combine a J-hook and a circle hook on the same bait. Stick to either or. Also when using a circle...stick to one hook! Small baits = circle; Large baits = J-Hooks (1 or 2).

 

[Ratler]

Ek gebruik altyd 2 j-hooks met viskoppe en 99% van al my runs wat ek kry is di vis aan

 

[deisel]

Drift with j hooks and heads? Who did this without succsess

 

[IWyk]

Hi I am new to the forum, but cat fishing is one of my favorite pass times and would like to share my 2 cents

I know you are with the dead chickens at the moment but cannot wait to get to the rest. I love fishing for cats and I personally like targeting big cats. As Skuimkop said "emphasize that the way I do things is NOT the alpha and omega of Catfishing" I agree, each person has his own way. I am also no pro on the subject but love catching big cats.

First of all I believe that our catfish/barbel is the ultimate predatory fish of our fresh waters but also a scavenger.

Here is the way I prefer doing it.

For big catfish "Go big or go home" is definitely relevant.

 Targeting BIG cat fish in rivers(my favorite), with lots of structure, you need heavy tackle, not only to handle the huge power of these big cats but also to contend with the underwater structure.(Rocks, dead trees etc.)

Equipment:
1. 3m fiberglass boat- to drop baits.
2. Electric motor and battery for above.
3. BIG strong landing net.
4. Half bricks-the ones with the 3 holes.(leaving one hole intact)

Tackle:
1. Rod-for drop baits in river-24 kg solid fiberglass bottom rod.
2. Reel-650 Alvey or 71/2"KP(with brake). The brake is for preventing over runs when the cat takes off with the bait and not to fight the fish. Direct 1 to 1 ratio is perfect for this type of fishing.
3. Line-24kg main line, Bimini twist to make a short double line section, two double figure of 8 knots to join the double 24kg to 36 kg leader of at least 6m.
4. Circle hooks-10 to 14/0 wide gape inline.
5. 7kg dropper line to half brick-tied directly to the 36 kg line(no swivels), allowing it to breakaway(break off), preventing any snags.
6. Sinker-half brick.

Bait:
Bear in mind that a Catfish/barbel can swallow a live bait 20% of its own weight.

I know it is "illegal" to use live bait in some provinces but I will leave this up to you to check the regulations for the area you wish to fish.

The barbel is in my opinion the ultimate freshwater predator in our waters. Therefore my preferred method is live bait and big live baits are the way to go.

1. Live bait-best live bait is a 1kg plus mud fish or a moggol if you don't get a muddy. Carp from 800gr to 2kg are also good. The "stress" signals that a live bait sends out is irresistible to a barbel.
2. Dead mud fish/carp are the next best bait. If the carp is a bit big 3.5-5kg, I cut them from the front of the dorsal fin(just in front of the spike) at an angle down to the poepol(for lack of a better word). This will just open up the stomach cavity letting out the flavors. Always soften the head on these big baits by bashing them (use your brick sinkers)
3. Ox heart and chicken gut sandwich is next on my list. I use minimum a half an ox heart with some chicken guts wrapped on using ghost cotton.

Method:
1. I have explained above how to set up the fishing rig. I do not use any swivels as this increases the amount of knots(which weakens the whole set-up) and also the swivels can get stuck or wedged on structure. So I use just 24kg to 36 kg to big circle hook anchored with a 7kg breakaway to the brick.
2. Rigging the baits. Because I prefer big circle hooks and huge baits I need to keep my baits away from the circle hooks to guarantee good hook-up. I use Dacron for this and make a "bridle" to connect the hook to the bait. I never put the hook through the bait.
Make a loop of Dacron, push a bait needle through the nostrils of the mud fish(in the one, out the other), pull the loop through itself. Fold the part of the loop that is outside over itself to make another loop that you then put over the circle hook. This will keep the hook gape open, stay nicely against your bait fish as the cat swallows the bait and then hook up(every time) as soon as the cat takes off with the bait.
I rig the dead baits in the same way. With the ox heart I will using the bait needle pull the Dacron through the bait more times to make sure it is secured properly before making the loop.
3. Then tie a 500mm piece of 7kg line to 36kg line about a meter back from the hook. Attach the half brick to the other side. This will break away when the cat takes off.
4. Use the boat to go and drop the bait in the right spot.

Pro's:
You only catch big cats

Con's:
Need some specialized equipment(Not necessarily a bad thing as we always need more fishing stuff!!

I have caught barbel on this method all year round. On one trip we caught seven barbel in row using the same muddy. Obviously it was dead after the first three but kept on producing bites.(The cat will spit the bait out once the hook sets and due to the Dacron bridle the bait is often recovered).

I have caught barbel on chicken, platties, worms, chicken livers, small fish heads(all cast baits), you will catch big cats from time to time using these baits and methods. However using large baits guarantees big cats most of the time.

I also catch cats by using the spot and cast method but this calls for other equipment and technique.

 

[AYOBA!]

 

[ziyaadb]

WOW thats some post.Thanks for sharing.

 

[Skuimkop]

IWyk wrote:

Hi I am new to the forum, but cat fishing is one of my favorite pass times and would like to share my 2 cents

Welcome to Sealine and very good post for your first post. Hope we will see more of your inputs here at the Catfish section as I can see you are also a 'thinker' if it comes to Catfishing. Nice having you here.

 

[Skuimkop]

IWyk wrote:

2. Dead mud fish/carp are the next best bait. If the carp is a bit big 3.5-5kg, I cut them from the front of the dorsal fin(just in front of the spike) at an angle down to the poepol(for lack of a better word). This will just open up the stomach cavity letting out the flavors. Always soften the head on these big baits by bashing them (use your brick sinkers)

Something like this?

 

[Skuimkop]

Ending up something like this?

 

[Skuimkop]

You can even make small Carp as a big bait by just cutting of the tail. Make a small incision at the stomach area to let those guts juices out. You can insert a 'strip' of floating foam next to the spine whereby you will basically just turn the fish 'right side up' and it will just let your bait 'lie' on the bottom but your bait will be moving with the surrounding water and this will mimick a wounded or dying fish struggling to get of the bottom.

 

[Skuimkop]

Because Muddies are a smaller fish species than Carp I rig them also like this when targeting the the big boys. As mentioned before, for smaller baits I would just use the head.

 

[Skuimkop]

Here you can see the guts just sticking out.

 

[IWyk]

Hi, the cuts are perfect and the illustrations well done. Only thing I would not agree with on a bait this size is choice and placement of the hooks. The hooks are too small and I would go with a single circle hook instead of tandem J. More so if I was fishing in a river due to increased chance of fouling.

From your last photo, the back hook is almost not visible and gape on the front hook is almost closed by the bait. For me a single big(at least 14/0) circle hook rigged on a bridle on the front side of the head would be much more successful.
When circle hooks rigged using a dacron bridle(even big ones on big baits), are swallowed with the bait, they will fold against the bait without bothering the barbel when it swallows the bait. When it takes off it will then hook-up in the corner of the mouth every time.

IMHO the way this one is rigged, the barbel will swallow the bait and when it takes off it MAY be hooked and the chances off getting hooked in the gut is also high, which will affect the well being of the barbel when released.  If the barbel spits this bait or if the angler strikes to soon chances are this bait will come out without hooking up properly and you could loose that once in a lifetime 100 pounder.

Part from the hook issue for me this is a nice size bait and well presented will produce a decent size fish.

 

[Skuimkop]

I'm quickly going to explain the 'flap' head bait to you guys. Very good bait with lots of success. Basically what you do is to cut the fish in half like IWyk explained and as can be seen in the demonstrations I posted. You the 'fillet' the body part that is still attached to the head cutting out the spine and cuts. You now sitting with a solid head with two 'flaps' attached to the head. Fold these flaps back over the head after you gave the head a good bashing (almost mushi) and secure it in position over the head with ghost cotton. The bashed head will give you that irresistible sent and the 'fillet flaps' will give you the 'body and extra soft meat texture'. You can enhance your bait by spraying it with cod liver on the soft fillets. This method also increases small head bait in size if you want to target the bigger boys.

 

[IWyk]

If I may use your picture of the mudfish rigged with two J hooks(very well done and I would not be able to replicate it) to explain why I prefer big circle hooks to J hooks for big dead or live baits. As has been mentioned before on this forum a barbel will always swallow a whole(live or dead presented) bait head first. Most of the time a big cat will also "descale" a fish bait before swallowing it. This is when you could see some movement on your line, policeman, alarm, rod tip or some click click coming from your reel, while the cat is busy doing this.
Now if you look at the picture again you will see some issues related to this presentation when taking the above into account.
1. While descaling the bait the cat needs to take it into its mouth from the side and then "chew" it and "roll" it in it's mouth to try and get the scales off. The two J hooks will definitely interfere with this process and could cause the cat to leave the bait or keep on playing with it for a long time and not swallow it. Especially if it gets "zapped" a few times by the hooks in the process.
2. While swallowing the bait (head first), the two hooks will acts as "stoppers" actually making it difficult for the cat to swallow the bait, because they are pointing towards the side the cat will swallow from. (Both the points are facing forward on this presentation).

If using a big circle hook on a bridle- the hook is away from the bait during this descaling, it then moves flat with the bait when swallowed and then when the cat takes off it will slide out until it gets to the corner of the mouth and then VAS!!!

Apologies for "highjacking" your photo but you did it so well it helped me explain some of my circle hook theory. Hope this makes a little bit of sense.

 

[steelpulse007]

This thread just keeps getting better, gotta commend you guys on your awesome contributions to edify those of us still looking to break the water with a monster ;-)

 

[Skuimkop]

IWyk wrote:

If I may use your picture of the mudfish rigged with two J hooks(very well done and I would not be able to replicate it) to explain why I prefer big circle hooks to J hooks for big dead or live baits. As has been mentioned before on this forum a barbel will always swallow a whole(live or dead presented) bait head first. Most of the time a big cat will also "descale" a fish bait before swallowing it. This is when you could see some movement on your line, policeman, alarm, rod tip or some click click coming from your reel, while the cat is busy doing this.
Now if you look at the picture again you will see some issues related to this presentation when taking the above into account.
1. While descaling the bait the cat needs to take it into its mouth from the side and then "chew" it and "roll" it in it's mouth to try and get the scales off. The two J hooks will definitely interfere with this process and could cause the cat to leave the bait or keep on playing with it for a long time and not swallow it. Especially if it gets "zapped" a few times by the hooks in the process.
2. While swallowing the bait (head first), the two hooks will acts as "stoppers" actually making it difficult for the cat to swallow the bait, because they are pointing towards the side the cat will swallow from. (Both the points are facing forward on this presentation).

If using a big circle hook on a bridle- the hook is away from the bait during this descaling, it then moves flat with the bait when swallowed and then when the cat takes off it will slide out until it gets to the corner of the mouth and then VAS!!!

Apologies for "highjacking" your photo but you did it so well it helped me explain some of my circle hook theory. Hope this makes a little bit of sense.

No problem using what I post here, actually I will encourage it as long as more info can be gathered and we can help fellow anglers.

And a I said before i hope you stick around because i can see you are a thinker. Regarding your post it occurred not long ago to me that we might be getting rigging big baits wrong. Follow this link:

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=90806&forum_id=64&msg=7

So yes I fully agree with you. I would just argue a little bit with you regarding the the J-hooks hooks (more debate). I trust in them and will post my rigs for you for your opinion if you off coarse don't mind. Photo of above carp head rig is actually not mine.

 

[IWyk]

Agreed on your comments on above link. The more knowledge we share the more we all learn in the end.

I do use them but only on small baits and seldom in tandem(for barbel that is). "Spot and stalk" fishing with a float and small bait would be one place I use them and then also with "blaasop" platanna as bait I may use them.

As for big live and dead baits, I have had such good results with hookup rate and good hook sets using big circles that it will take some convincing to change my opinion regarding them.

As Franktjie mentioned in his recent report-I LOVE BABERS- "I'm very happy with the mustard circle hook performance. 5 takes, 5 fish- all hooked in the corner of their mouths. "

That is what circles where designed to do and what they seem to always do.

Looking forward to your thoughts and techniques on J hooks, though. Always good to see what other anglers use, how and why.

 

[Jakes 10]

WOW!!!! Some awesome info!!! Thanks. One thing, using a circle hook with a j hook has mixed results. I believe it the J hook will negatively effect the performance of the circle hook, but I've read in the saltwater section (I think it was a post by Enigma) that they use circles and J hook combos with great success. I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in the eating....

Awesome thread!