raggie hunter
New member
Where can I get hold of the rulings for 2008/2009 season?
Where can I get hold of the rulings for 2008/2009
- Thread starter raggie hunter
- Start date
[color=#0066cc]Reefman[/color] wrote:
Still allowed to slide in the Western Cape AFAIK - the southern or eastern cape has banned sliding from their league comps.
Extract from SASAA Agm meeting in Jul 08 in PE ...
"21.2 SLIDERS
The following proposal from W.P. is accepted:
Barbless hooks must be used. Proposal for a slider trace. The objective is not to have a sinker break off as this will increase the possibility of the anglers line wrapping around the fish. The proposed slider trace consists of a 1 mm leader, tied onto ± 700mm 120lb steel and the slider sinker tied directly onto the steel. The hook trace consisted of a slider mechanism with two 10° Barbless hooks joined onto ± 400mm 120lb steel. The logic behind the trace is that once the shark took the bait the sinker would actually travel with the fish. As soon as the fish is identified as a Great White the line must be cut. This will result in the sinker dropping to the sea bed and the line pulling out of the sliders coil. The conventional method is to have a much weaker line between the slider stopper and the sinker. During a hook up the weaker sinker line breaks, the sinker falls away and there is no means for the line to part from the Great White "
"21.2 SLIDERS
The following proposal from W.P. is accepted:
Barbless hooks must be used. Proposal for a slider trace. The objective is not to have a sinker break off as this will increase the possibility of the anglers line wrapping around the fish. The proposed slider trace consists of a 1 mm leader, tied onto ± 700mm 120lb steel and the slider sinker tied directly onto the steel. The hook trace consisted of a slider mechanism with two 10° Barbless hooks joined onto ± 400mm 120lb steel. The logic behind the trace is that once the shark took the bait the sinker would actually travel with the fish. As soon as the fish is identified as a Great White the line must be cut. This will result in the sinker dropping to the sea bed and the line pulling out of the sliders coil. The conventional method is to have a much weaker line between the slider stopper and the sinker. During a hook up the weaker sinker line breaks, the sinker falls away and there is no means for the line to part from the Great White "
[color=#0066cc]Reefman[/color] wrote:
Hey Reefer, I am around hey lol. That is the most fundamental issue with regard to any "rule". SASAA rules would apply to all National Championships and in the main would be practised within all leagues. However, certain leagues might adopt variances
eg. sliders, gaffing, keeping the odd edible etc
WCSAA definitely endorses the use of sliders as per Kumz email. The wording of the insert however is a bit sketchy there though.
Hey Reefer, I am around hey lol. That is the most fundamental issue with regard to any "rule". SASAA rules would apply to all National Championships and in the main would be practised within all leagues. However, certain leagues might adopt variances
eg. sliders, gaffing, keeping the odd edible etc
WCSAA definitely endorses the use of sliders as per Kumz email. The wording of the insert however is a bit sketchy there though.
raggie hunter
New member
EP anglers..?anyone from my area received new rules?
[color=#006600]Kumz[/color] wrote:
Hiya Kumz, I recently had a very long chat with a local PE and Springbok angler about this proposal.
My question and this is if I understand the rig corectly. When you have a length of steel 700mm long passing through the coils under tension it causes a spring effect to the steel. I currently use about 250mm of 200lbs steel from my leader to the stopper ring and everytime I land a fish the steel coils so badly that it would not easily pass backward through sliders coil. (Possibly 5 of 10 times) Would 700mm not just increase the coils and decrease the chances of the line slipping through the slider coils.
Now by adding the 8 - 10 oz sinker to the rig with steel you could end up with the fish towing meters of topshot, meters of 1mm leader and 700mm of steel attached to a 10oz grab sinker.
Never mind the line or leader snagging or being wrapped around the fish, but imagine the sinker being snagged on a rock surface. and the fish being pegged down by 150 Lbs steel!
Is it just me or am I missing something!?!
Hiya Kumz, I recently had a very long chat with a local PE and Springbok angler about this proposal.
My question and this is if I understand the rig corectly. When you have a length of steel 700mm long passing through the coils under tension it causes a spring effect to the steel. I currently use about 250mm of 200lbs steel from my leader to the stopper ring and everytime I land a fish the steel coils so badly that it would not easily pass backward through sliders coil. (Possibly 5 of 10 times) Would 700mm not just increase the coils and decrease the chances of the line slipping through the slider coils.
Now by adding the 8 - 10 oz sinker to the rig with steel you could end up with the fish towing meters of topshot, meters of 1mm leader and 700mm of steel attached to a 10oz grab sinker.
Never mind the line or leader snagging or being wrapped around the fish, but imagine the sinker being snagged on a rock surface. and the fish being pegged down by 150 Lbs steel!
Is it just me or am I missing something!?!
[color=#006600]Trophy[/color] wrote:
Hiya Trophy, just a quick question. In your experience, where do most of the burn off's occur. At the ring or on the main of the 1mm leader?
Hiya Karma,
I think Habib posted a thread on how to get a slide down to the stopper. I recon that most of the time the slide never reaches the stopper. I don't suffer may burn off's and when it has happened I recon that it was the result of the silde getting tangled with the main either on the topshot or leader.
What did you think of my concerns on the proposed sliding rig?
I think Habib posted a thread on how to get a slide down to the stopper. I recon that most of the time the slide never reaches the stopper. I don't suffer may burn off's and when it has happened I recon that it was the result of the silde getting tangled with the main either on the topshot or leader.
What did you think of my concerns on the proposed sliding rig?
carcharias
Sealiner
Hi Trophy
What steel are you using? Is it a solid wire or a twisted multi strand?
Other than the problem you have adressed, the rig appears to be pretty good to me. If the coiling can be eliminated, the rig should save a lot of fish. I have not personally had this problem. Even with the Raggie skrops caught, there was no coiling of the wire.
Perhaps others can ad thier experiences to this thread and a solution can be found.
Thanks
G
What steel are you using? Is it a solid wire or a twisted multi strand?
Other than the problem you have adressed, the rig appears to be pretty good to me. If the coiling can be eliminated, the rig should save a lot of fish. I have not personally had this problem. Even with the Raggie skrops caught, there was no coiling of the wire.
Perhaps others can ad thier experiences to this thread and a solution can be found.
Thanks
G
We are still allowed to use sliders here in WP, but we have to make sure our bards are squashed, and that the sinker trace line is 1mm. In that way, if you are burnt off while the slide is half way down, or your line parts while fighting a fish, the sinker will get stuck in the ocean bottom and the fish is able to swim the rest of the line out and only have the trace in its mouth. And because it is barbless, the trace will hopefully fall out quickly.
[color=#006600]Trophy[/color] wrote:
Hi Trophy
Sorry for the late reply. Most burn off's appear to happen as you pointed out on the leader itself, even though I have seen more than my fair share of top shot burn offs. The steel tied to the ring very seldom however display the 'pigtails' you describe and it also not a compulsory item to have on your rig (could just use the 1mm leader straight to the ring). Having said that, it would also then be "concluded" that with the sinker anchored and assuming the burnoff is at the start of the leader/top shot area, the slider is now exiting the top shot/leader area and not the sinker area
The rig was "modified" by Robbie Janse and Greg Kellerman (Noweeds) in conjunction with Mike Meyer (MCM) to try to eliminate the amount of tangling and potential drowning of the fish. I will however pass on your concerns and ask Robbie/Greg to test it and see if the rigs work better with the shorter steel. The more questions we have, the more accomplished the rigs can hopefully get.
ciao
Hi Trophy
Sorry for the late reply. Most burn off's appear to happen as you pointed out on the leader itself, even though I have seen more than my fair share of top shot burn offs. The steel tied to the ring very seldom however display the 'pigtails' you describe and it also not a compulsory item to have on your rig (could just use the 1mm leader straight to the ring). Having said that, it would also then be "concluded" that with the sinker anchored and assuming the burnoff is at the start of the leader/top shot area, the slider is now exiting the top shot/leader area and not the sinker area
The rig was "modified" by Robbie Janse and Greg Kellerman (Noweeds) in conjunction with Mike Meyer (MCM) to try to eliminate the amount of tangling and potential drowning of the fish. I will however pass on your concerns and ask Robbie/Greg to test it and see if the rigs work better with the shorter steel. The more questions we have, the more accomplished the rigs can hopefully get.
ciao
[color=#006600]Karma[/color] wrote:
Hiya Karma,
I was very surprised to read that you very seldom experience the 'pigtail' or coil effect that occurs after hooking and landing a fish on a slide rig. I scratch out a rig used last w/end in M/bay. The pictured coils were formed after landing a 20 kg Smoothhound shark on a 5 min fight.
I experience this at least 9/10 times. Are there any other Shark anglers on Sealine that could add their comments and the effects this would have on the new slide proposal.
Regards
Trophy
Hiya Karma,
I was very surprised to read that you very seldom experience the 'pigtail' or coil effect that occurs after hooking and landing a fish on a slide rig. I scratch out a rig used last w/end in M/bay. The pictured coils were formed after landing a 20 kg Smoothhound shark on a 5 min fight.
I experience this at least 9/10 times. Are there any other Shark anglers on Sealine that could add their comments and the effects this would have on the new slide proposal.
Regards
Trophy
Attachments
Katonkel Tom
Sealiner
Trophy dont they burn off when you cast?
Hey Trophy
Smoothounds and Black spotties would have a tendency to roll up the line, so to speak, at or near landing hence the pigtail effect. Bronze whalers and big toothies tend to be very different. The purpose of the change in the rig is to provide some form of opportunity for the "big fish particularly" to have a greater opportunity to swim off without the extended line and more particularly, not have line wrap around its body. Let's face it that most spotties/smoothounds are also caught using leader 1mm as trace line on throw baits rather than sliders.
Bear in mind that once you have hooked the fish and the slider is at the stopper then other issues come into play and the design is more for the 40% (guestimate) of the time that burn off occur. This is certainly not a failproof solution, but makes sense to minimise adverse effect occuring during burn-off when the fish picks you up.
Smoothounds and Black spotties would have a tendency to roll up the line, so to speak, at or near landing hence the pigtail effect. Bronze whalers and big toothies tend to be very different. The purpose of the change in the rig is to provide some form of opportunity for the "big fish particularly" to have a greater opportunity to swim off without the extended line and more particularly, not have line wrap around its body. Let's face it that most spotties/smoothounds are also caught using leader 1mm as trace line on throw baits rather than sliders.
Bear in mind that once you have hooked the fish and the slider is at the stopper then other issues come into play and the design is more for the 40% (guestimate) of the time that burn off occur. This is certainly not a failproof solution, but makes sense to minimise adverse effect occuring during burn-off when the fish picks you up.
[color=#006600]Karma[/color] wrote:
Hiya Karma,
I have caught my fair share of sharks and suffer very few burnoffs. I believe that many anglers have a false sense of belief that their slider has actually reached the stopper ring. What the actual stats are who knows, prehaps someone could do a number of 'slide and dives'under various conditions and locations. This would finally provide the accurate stats on the whole slide reaching the stopper debate. If we knew these facts then we could adapt how we fish slides correctly to reduce the number of burn off's. (amount of shaking, line tension & drag setting, stike, lower rod, lift rod......................)
I believe the pig tails are caused when the a fish has taken a bait and the slide is either on or near the leader. The slide under pressure, and possibly at an agler to the anchor sinker, runs over the steel and created the pigtails. We all know that if you run steel trace over or around an object under pressure it will coil.
I have inclided another picture as I'm still not sure what exactly been propsed.
A - Optional
B - Proposed Legislation
If 'B' is the case and 'A' remains optional, there will still be many anglers using steel from leader to stopper ring. If an anglers main line snaps, and an instance of 'pig tails' occurs the slide coil has a very good chance of snagging. The resulting effect is a fish towing the leader and topshot and a 8oz sinker bound by steel. Double death?
Hiya Karma,
I have caught my fair share of sharks and suffer very few burnoffs. I believe that many anglers have a false sense of belief that their slider has actually reached the stopper ring. What the actual stats are who knows, prehaps someone could do a number of 'slide and dives'under various conditions and locations. This would finally provide the accurate stats on the whole slide reaching the stopper debate. If we knew these facts then we could adapt how we fish slides correctly to reduce the number of burn off's. (amount of shaking, line tension & drag setting, stike, lower rod, lift rod......................)
I believe the pig tails are caused when the a fish has taken a bait and the slide is either on or near the leader. The slide under pressure, and possibly at an agler to the anchor sinker, runs over the steel and created the pigtails. We all know that if you run steel trace over or around an object under pressure it will coil.
I have inclided another picture as I'm still not sure what exactly been propsed.
A - Optional
B - Proposed Legislation
If 'B' is the case and 'A' remains optional, there will still be many anglers using steel from leader to stopper ring. If an anglers main line snaps, and an instance of 'pig tails' occurs the slide coil has a very good chance of snagging. The resulting effect is a fish towing the leader and topshot and a 8oz sinker bound by steel. Double death?
Attachments
carcharias
Sealiner
Hi guys
Surely using sinle strand wire to the stopper is the answer.
I previously stated that we had not got the pigtails. I believe its because we used single strand to the stopper. Only use multi strand from slider to hooks.
The other thing I feel may help is to use pre- streched cable.
We had the cables on our sailboats pigtailing when the mast was lowered, pre streched reduced the problem dramatically.
Surely using sinle strand wire to the stopper is the answer.
I previously stated that we had not got the pigtails. I believe its because we used single strand to the stopper. Only use multi strand from slider to hooks.
The other thing I feel may help is to use pre- streched cable.
We had the cables on our sailboats pigtailing when the mast was lowered, pre streched reduced the problem dramatically.
There is absolute no legislation that pre-determines what your slider should look like. The SASAA proposals applies to all SASAA sanctioned nationals. Affiliated associations have unanimously adopted this but bear in mind variances can take place in each league i.e. some allow gaffing and no sliding and other the opposite way. Any proposals are geared to the masses and would apply accordingly. Most anglers believe their slides have reached the bottom - I think you would agree that a multiple number of reasons can result in it not happening. The number of rings on the slide, quality and succinctness of the knots, the "lay of the land so to speak" etc.
A 300mm or 1.2mm steel, dependant on the pick-up will lead to pigtails developing, IF the slide has not reached the ring, so the shortness or length does not hold a significant benefit according to Robbie and his research. Bear in mind that the purpose of the changes is for
a) The sinker to stay anchored
b) The slider to exit at the non sinker end
c) Our inhouse research and consultations with other associations league anglers indicated that most burn-off's occured on the leader line. However, where on the leader is subject to conjecture.
Robbie would however welcome a discussion with you as we are open to anything that can enhance the sport.
Robbie Janse (Robbie is a WP and Springbok Angler who made the recommendations for the changes in the SASAA sliding amendments)
082 778 4543
Hope this helps.
A 300mm or 1.2mm steel, dependant on the pick-up will lead to pigtails developing, IF the slide has not reached the ring, so the shortness or length does not hold a significant benefit according to Robbie and his research. Bear in mind that the purpose of the changes is for
a) The sinker to stay anchored
b) The slider to exit at the non sinker end
c) Our inhouse research and consultations with other associations league anglers indicated that most burn-off's occured on the leader line. However, where on the leader is subject to conjecture.
Robbie would however welcome a discussion with you as we are open to anything that can enhance the sport.
Robbie Janse (Robbie is a WP and Springbok Angler who made the recommendations for the changes in the SASAA sliding amendments)
082 778 4543
Hope this helps.