Ruff_Ryder
New member
Some one said this was diy.
Do you need a vaccum chamber to build lures?
Do you need a vaccum chamber to build lures?
Vacuum chambers
- Thread starter benniejordaan
- Start date
Little Green Fish
Sealiner
NO you don't.
benniejordaan
Sealiner
You do when you want to make moulds from thicker materials, You get different types of Silicones with different densities and some are quite thick and very difficult to remove air bubbles. It makes life easier when pouring stuff like Silicones and Polyurethanes. Just helps to remove the air bubbles.
But I also want to use what I build for vacuum forming.
But I also want to use what I build for vacuum forming.
Little Green Fish
Sealiner
Let me rephrase, NO you don't if you're making ordinary (the stuff we all try) "DIY" lures.
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Little Green Fish wrote:
But ja, if you don't have one you don't absolutely need one. I agree with you, you don't need it for the stuff you make.
But a piece of hose pipe is going to make your lungs tired when vacuum forming.
we should reed I. What you make and what I make are 2 completely different things.
But ja, if you don't have one you don't absolutely need one. I agree with you, you don't need it for the stuff you make.
But a piece of hose pipe is going to make your lungs tired when vacuum forming.
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Andre Laas
Sealiner
Don’t know if it will be of any help, but we have often used “Vacuum Bells (Bell jar vacuums)†in lab work. It is basically a glass dome with a handle on top that sat on a special glass base that was connected to a vacuum pump. The rim of the “bell†was sealed with a special “high Vacuum grease†I cannot remember the exact vacuum pressures we could do in these chambers. The vacuum equipment in the lab was from http://www.hyvac.com/T_O_C/TOC_Main.htm, But it will most likely be too expensive for DIY applications. The Hyvac site does have a lot of info about vacuums
A local lab supplier that sells vacuum equipment is B&M scientific: http://www.bmscientific.co.za/search_do.asp?search=vacuum. Look at the vacuum desiccator chambers, I think they would be Ideal for degassing silicone and resin, but maybe impractical and too small for vacuum forming. I think these vacuum desiccators cost in around R1500. Best option in my opinion.
In terms of vacuum pressures, I am no expert, but as far as I have it, there is a theoretical “perfect vacuum†that is in effect unobtainable in real live. The reason for this is that if you remove every last air particle from a confined space, you have a perfect vacuum, and no amount of suction can remove “nothingâ€. At sea level, the air pressure is about 1 Atm or 1.013 bar or 750mmHg. Thus an “open†vacuum chamber at sea level will be at equilibrium with the atmosphere, and if you close it off, and start to vacuum out the air (particles) you will under theoretical perfect conditions only be able to remove 1 atm or 1.013 bar or 750mmHg worth of air particles, giving you a “pressure†of 0 inside the chamber.
A bit of reading indicated that you need to pull a vacuum of about 725mmHg to degas most resins and silicones. (Thus leaving only 25mmHg’s worth of air particles in the chamber).
A local lab supplier that sells vacuum equipment is B&M scientific: http://www.bmscientific.co.za/search_do.asp?search=vacuum. Look at the vacuum desiccator chambers, I think they would be Ideal for degassing silicone and resin, but maybe impractical and too small for vacuum forming. I think these vacuum desiccators cost in around R1500. Best option in my opinion.
In terms of vacuum pressures, I am no expert, but as far as I have it, there is a theoretical “perfect vacuum†that is in effect unobtainable in real live. The reason for this is that if you remove every last air particle from a confined space, you have a perfect vacuum, and no amount of suction can remove “nothingâ€. At sea level, the air pressure is about 1 Atm or 1.013 bar or 750mmHg. Thus an “open†vacuum chamber at sea level will be at equilibrium with the atmosphere, and if you close it off, and start to vacuum out the air (particles) you will under theoretical perfect conditions only be able to remove 1 atm or 1.013 bar or 750mmHg worth of air particles, giving you a “pressure†of 0 inside the chamber.
A bit of reading indicated that you need to pull a vacuum of about 725mmHg to degas most resins and silicones. (Thus leaving only 25mmHg’s worth of air particles in the chamber).
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Little Green Fish
Sealiner
benniejordaan wrote:
Bennie, I don't have to time nor the wish to get into any tussle with you, I'm way beyond that, the question was aimed at the average Joe's level of making lures, read the question, see where Ruff-Ryder was going with it and relax.we should reed I. (the stuff I all try, somehow that doesn't read right) What you make and what I make are 2 completely different things. (you don't know what I make so you have no clue)
But ja, if you don't have one you don't absolutely need one. I agree with you, you don't need it for the stuff you make.
(again, you don't know what I make so you have no clue) But a piece of hose pipe is going to make your lungs tired when vacuum forming. (I normally just go to my buddy's place to have this done on a proper machine so I more or less don't need to suck on a piece of hosepipe or anything for that matter)
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Little Green Fish wrote:
You are right, my bad, apologies!
Mikey, you back then?
I know where he was going with it.benniejordaan wrote:Bennie, I don't have to time nor the wish to get into any tussle with you, I'm way beyond that, the question was aimed at the average Joe's level of making lures, read the question, see where Ruff-Ryder was going with it and relax.we should reed I. (the stuff I all try, somehow that doesn't read right) What you make and what I make are 2 completely different things. (you don't know what I make so you have no clue)
But ja, if you don't have one you don't absolutely need one. I agree with you, you don't need it for the stuff you make.
(again, you don't know what I make so you have no clue) But a piece of hose pipe is going to make your lungs tired when vacuum forming. (I normally just go to my buddy's place to have this done on a proper machine so I more or less don't need to suck on a piece of hosepipe or anything for that matter)
You are right, my bad, apologies!
Mikey, you back then?
Little Green Fish
Sealiner
@ Bennie, Cool, no probs.
Hi Bennie
I am in the refrigeration trade we do a vacuum pump that will give you 5CFM (cubic feet per min.). I will PM you a price. You will not get down to 1bar Absolute vacuum in the way that you would like to do it.
For what you would like to do you do not need more that 26 inches of vacuum. Go to a company that sell lab instruments. Ask as for a vacuum dome it is a glass dome with a hole in the top looks like a wind glass without the stem just bigger and a lot thicker. Get a rubber plug that fits in to the hole and connect the vacuum pump to it. You should note that the silicon will increase in size two to three times under vacuum.
I am in the refrigeration trade we do a vacuum pump that will give you 5CFM (cubic feet per min.). I will PM you a price. You will not get down to 1bar Absolute vacuum in the way that you would like to do it.
For what you would like to do you do not need more that 26 inches of vacuum. Go to a company that sell lab instruments. Ask as for a vacuum dome it is a glass dome with a hole in the top looks like a wind glass without the stem just bigger and a lot thicker. Get a rubber plug that fits in to the hole and connect the vacuum pump to it. You should note that the silicon will increase in size two to three times under vacuum.
tackle whore
Senior Member
AAAHH!! this i understand now ....if you suck it gets bigger .
The fridge pump actually works.
(Pardon the picture quality)
When my wife was'nt looking, I pinched the cookie jar in which the dog's food was kept and stiffened the lid with two 9 mm thick plywood discs. (epoxy). A copper pipe had also been silver-soldered to the lid, using a wet cloth to ensure that the rubber seal in the lid was not damaged by the heat.
About 2 minutes after switching on the fridge pump, the silicon's volume increased by +- 300% - indicating success
(Pardon the picture quality)
When my wife was'nt looking, I pinched the cookie jar in which the dog's food was kept and stiffened the lid with two 9 mm thick plywood discs. (epoxy). A copper pipe had also been silver-soldered to the lid, using a wet cloth to ensure that the rubber seal in the lid was not damaged by the heat.
About 2 minutes after switching on the fridge pump, the silicon's volume increased by +- 300% - indicating success
Attachments
benniejordaan
Sealiner
Cool thanks guys, so the fridge pump is the way forward then, at least for degassing liquids.
@ Flyfish, I look forward to that PM.
@ Flyfish, I look forward to that PM.