Some advice please...

[MarvelousMark]

Hi Guys

I need a bit of advice, I am looking at getting myself a rod and reel for frogging/surface fishing as its one of my favorite technique's, but i'm not sure if what i have my eye on is suitable  for this technique. ie: 7'2" cumara MH, with 7. ? gear ratio Quantum PT Tour reel. filled with 65lb braid (what brand would you recommend..?) and i say 65lb because i read somewhere that the reason you use such heavy braid is because it has low knot strength. Or could i use lighter braid, say 25lb and use a fluorocarbon or mono leader with a Bimini leader knot in the braid...?

And one more thing i have a 7' crucial medium power, fast action rod, with line rating of 6-12lbs that im looking at getting a new reel for. What reel would be a good choice for this rod..

Was thinking a curado but not sure which retrieve would best suit this rod..?

Your help would be greatly appreciated..:cry1

 

 

 

[MarvelousMark]

Surely there is some one here that can offer me some advice.. pretty please man..!

Bass season proper is just around the corner..

 

[Monster]

Hi Mark

In my opinion the Cumaro is the better Rod. You want a stiff rod so you can inpart movement in the frog. In my experience short little tugs make the frog do a walk the dog action and if you get the rythem just right it looks like the frog is swinging from side to side. Very little linieer movement. A longer rod sometimes make it difficult to control the frogs movement and makes it difficult to pitch the frog in under cover.

I have a MH crucial that use to be 6'8" until my ex pruned it in my car door. However this rod is perfect now. Its about 6'6" with almost no whip in the tip and lots of back bone. Frogs are heavy so casting distance is an issue.

I personally use the faster curado reel. But because I try and limit the amount of rods( we do more artlure so you end up with a bucket load of rods) I just put 14lb fluoro on my reel so I can use it for diffrent appliations.

I would recomends something like abu STX because of iets massive drag and nothing more than 30lb braid. I've pulled 10kg barbel out from under a tree's routes with fireline and right after that the barbel trimmed about 1.5m worth of palmiet like it was a garden trimmer with the line. If its good enough for barbel it sould be good enough for bass.

Please if any one has a different view on this please let me know. Like I said iets my opinion and we all know we all have one

 

[Little Green Fish]

I have three Cumara's (used to have Quantum's but they're no match for the Cumara's) all of which are 7,2ft's, a Med (extra fast), MH (Fast) and a MH (Extra Fast) now if you're planning on buying one and wanna use it predominantly for frogging and surface fishing then I'd go for the MH (Fast) the Extra fast is a little limp for that.  When coming to a reel for this I'd only strap two reels to it (here's the thing I cannot decide myself) one being the PT Tour and the other the Smoke (both Quantums) check the thread on Seriously stuck for some specs on the Smoke and the comparative Tour specs.

25lb braid should be fine if you rig a fluro leader to it, however I've caught a serious fright when it comes to braid as I've snapped two rods whilst using braid and I don't even strike as hard as a Union in SA. So I rather just opt for heavier Fluro like 20lbs, nothing more. Hope this helps.

The Crucial's reel, well again PT Tour or Smoke, depending again what you wanna use it for, the Accurist with the flipping switch is also a consideration if you wanna use it for general fishing.

Sorry for the Flood of Quatum Reel advice but yes I'm BIAST and rightfully so, been fishing with my PT Energy's since I can remember and not a day of trouble, so never will I ever buy another reel except perhaps another PT Energy, after I've bouhgt two Tour's and two Smoke's of cause.

 

[SmokingToe]

I'd goto the shops.. take ur rod or goto a shop with ur exact rod in stock and put every baitcaster on there and play around with it for a while, narrow it down to 3 then go research online. The retrieve speed of the reel should be based on what type of fishing.. Usually slower for cranks, higher for jigs etc.

For ur new rod id do much the same... just play around with the rods in ur price range till you get three then research and compare etc. Then go through the reel for rod setup again.

I agree that 65lb braid is a bit overboard although i have never fished with it. I hate casting thick line so I personally wont ever bass fish with anything heavier than 30lb braid.

Another thing to take into considering with the reels is spool size which is usually overlooked, the smaller the spool the better for flipping and pitching normally(performance wise that is not so much because it has a smaller spool etc). And then u must remember that a baitcaster with a 150 spool size and 6.7 ratio will probably be faster on retrieve than a 7.0 ratio with 110 spool size. Look for inches per turn on the reels you research.

 

[MarvelousMark]

@ Monster, First of all thanks for the reply..

So the conclusion i have come to now is that you actualy need two rods for frogging He he..! ie: a short one for close up, pitching, walking the dog etc.

And a longer one for grassy flats,sight fishing etc.

And ya, ive got to aggree with you there if 30lb braid can handle a 10kg barbel then i dont see any bass, being able to break it, not unless it has had access to Vernon Koekamoer's steroids..!!! ( and the magizine i read that in, recomends 100lb braid. UNBELIEVABLE.!!! )..

So ya, for now i will go with the longer rod as i dont have a boat yet.

.

 

 

 

[MarvelousMark]

@ LGF.

It was you that got me thinking in the lines of the cumara, PT Tour set up in the first place.

Having seen your Distances achieved with then on the cast..!!!!  "just what i'm looking for".

Henk is the fast not more limp as opposed to the extra fast.?

ie:    fast = 1st one third of the rod from the tip, flexes before it hits the backbone of the rod.

Extra fast = 1st quater of the rod flexes from the tip.

Also i observed in an oldish mag when the cumara was introduced, they advertized a Heavy powe,r Extra Fast Action, 7'2" cumara, that i havn't been able to find on the net, do you know if such a rod exist's, and would it not perhaps be more suited..?

As far as the braid goes what  type of leader knot do you use, and how long do you make your leaderIf you dont mind me asking..,wouldn't using a mono or  co-polymer leader help with the whole strikeing issue..?, plus it floats.

Sorry for all the questions Henk, but just one more... how do you end up breaking your rod when strikeing with braid.?

Hope you been keeping well...

 

 

[MarvelousMark]

Smoking Toe

Thanks for the insight with regards to the size of the spool, its an angle i hadn't been considering until now..

Light lure, weightless fishing, pitching & flipping = small spool, makes sense if you consider the inertia of the spool..

 

[SmokingToe]

I think the reason the mag u read recommended 100lb is cos its an american mag? The structure the okes fish over there is.... challenging. In which case 100lb would be a possibility

 

[toadee]

Nice to see comments on the effect of the spool size. Another interesting fact is the effect on drag strength as it relates to amount of line on the spool.

A fully-spooled reel is going to have a "weaker" drag than the same reel spooled to 50 or 75%. Simple torque at play.

You'll sometimes read of people tightening down their reel drags with pliers for flipping or slop fishing. A less harmful method might be to quarter fill your reel. The only drawback is a greatly-reduced effective retrieve ratio.

As regards a frog setup, I use a Crucial 7'6" heavy action flipping rod spooled with 30+lb braid and a Curado 200E7. I favour the longer rod for the increased ability to move the fish.

 

[toadee]

Also, don't break the bank on a frogging stick. You don't need a super-sensitive rod for a topwater bite. You'll "detect" the bite with a broomstick

 

[Monster]

You can go past the guys at Fishing Pro Shop in Lynwood. They let you cast diffrent combinations until you get what you like. So swing past there the guys service is awesome and there advice is spot on.

 

[SmokingToe]

I would suggest taking someone with you to the shops and testing them out alongside you.

Fishing Pro Shop has been the most helpful out of all the shops. Just dont take their word as being set in stone. I was told I wouldn't feel 0.8oz difference in a reels weight by one person.

Angling Africa has done similar by telling me that only one kind of Rod was coming from a certain manufacturer, so I took it, even though it wasn't the Rod i wanted.. next visit to the shop, there stood the exact Rod i asked for and was told he couldn't get.

I don't know if it's because the staff get annoyed and just wanna brush you off... or if they genuinely are unaware. In angling africa's case I KNOW the guy was brushing me off or trying to get rid of me. In Fishing Pro Shops case i think the staff were unaware.

The only person you can take for his word is yourself, so it's best to go in and see what you want. Take a buddy with to point out the things you miss like ballancing, weight action power etc....

 

[MarvelousMark]

@ Toadee

Thanks for the information and help, i love learning the tecnical aspects of fishing in general...

@ Monster

Thanks for all the help, i will look them up..!

And to Smoking toe. It was South African mag.. I guess the differance is, with a professional you want to use heavier line, rods so as not to loose any fish where as socialy you want to enjoy the fight a little more..!

 

 

[SmokingToe]

Suppose, if u loose a fish on 30lb braid though, the 60lb wasnt going to help u anyway in my opinion. Might have something to do with getting the line to float?

I just really REALLY hate fishing with thick line..

 

[arab]

yeah, thick line really sucks :/

 

[MarvelousMark]

At the end of the day you don't want a bunch of trophy fish swimming around with broken line and lures in there mouths, just because you didn't match the tackle with the situation properly..!

I mean were hear to catch the fish not loose them..! 

 

 

[bblunt]

Just remember you can have 60lb braid but if your max drag on you reel is 20 pound and you've tightened it down, more likely than not the rod will snap. Very few bass rods are rated higher than 25lbs in terms of line rating. You need the fast to x-fast tip to help you to get some accuracy and distance on your cast. I use a StCroix 7ft Heavy/Fast with a Quantum PT Tour 7.1:1 and 30 pound braid. It is light, can cast on a spot and will out muscle any fish including big barbel. My 2c.