Shad Potection

[COBIA777]

Hi Guys

Firstly I was banned from another site as a result of a Shad conservation discussion where I raised my opinions about this fish and its protection over the years. I was banned because one of the members said I have no facts to prove my opinion. I explained that my opinion is based on the many years I have fished and the passion that I have for fishing. Hey I am no scientist, but I think in our modern society I can voice my opinions and theories as long as I am not offensive to others.

Ps I hope I dont get slated. I think I have a good theory of our Initial Shad decrease back in the seventies occured. I thought about this very carefully and there is an extreme posibility this could of occured and contributed to the apparent Shad depletion back in the seventies. I also commented on the fact that this fish is a migratory fish that swims from one point to another , does the spawning thing and heads back to where it came from. The little ones hatch and make there way back to the Cape and SWest waters, running the predatory gauntlet and polution factor. They grow up in the lagoons untill they are big enough to enter the big ocean. I commented on that this fish being a migratory fish cannot be outfished by shore anglers. If this fish was only found in one area, yes it would be outfished at a rapid rate.

So back in the 70s it was reported that the Shad population had depleted. Our marine scientists had done there research......Overfishing to blame.

Now heres my theory. What if for a certain period of the Shads normal migratory, spawning run most of the population decided for whatever reason to head in the opposite direction of its norm thus giving an impression that the fish are depleted in numbers off the KZN waters.

Is my reasoning possible?

Thanks guys. Ps dont slate me. Perhaps there is a fish scientist/ expert on our forum that can give us a good answer.

 

[Koper]

So coming out of the lagoon, instead of turning left to KZN, they turned right to...

Angola???

Interesting theory.

 

[BTTB]

Around 1990 if my memory serves, there was concern that Elf/Shad was in decline.

In the Strand area a number of boats used to target this species with reports of large catches. Sometime during this period the Elf went missing and everyone was alarmed that the species was in decline from overfishing so they banned it. Perhaps you had to have a A licence or something, maybe the semi commercial (B) licence I had was not allowed to catch Elf, it is too long ago to remember all the finer details, but there was huge concern over Elf as a species, so what you are saying is not new, history seems to be repeating itself.

The following year or the one thereafter around the 1990 period, my memory is hazy, there was reports of huge shoals back in the Strand area. I personally found shoal upon shoal of Elf between the Vlak Bankie and the Oriental Pioneer off Struisbaai around 1991/2, the echo sounder wrote blocks and blocks of the stuff, but unfortunately we were not allowed to catch it, this after the people in the know had almost written if off.

Another species, much like the Elf story was Geelbek, twice in my living memory Geelbek was determined by Scientists et al to be near endangered levels. The following year the Geelbek bit for a solid month around the engine block of the Oriental Pioneer at Struis, the boats recorded record catches. A decade or so later the species was once again stated to be in decline, they pitched up in the False Bay area and once again record catches were made.

So never say never when it comes to most fish species, they have this tendency to bounce back. Reading the Skiboat Magazine the other day it was encouraging to read that 74s are back in force up the East Coast.

 

[COBIA777]

Guys thanks for the replies thus far........

Koper Ja something like that. I can fully understand and its all common logic, yet i had a huge heated debate about this subject. I was told I have no proof and no research. I went on to say yeh I dont need proof and facts to have a theory in place. Maybe I am wrong. If you think about the fishing back in the 70s fisherman numbers were no where near to what it is today. Logic tells me that there would of been less pressure on these fish. How on earth can a person out fish a migratory fish with a rod n reel combo. Ps I am just talking about a Shad, not about other species as each and every specie is unique to its own .

I put together some figures using only shad of round about first spawn, 25 to 30 cm and took a random figure at starting point of control, lets say there were a milion Shad left on our shores back in the 70s. Back then lets say 50 000 fisherman. I guesstimated a mortality rate. I considered factors such as major and minor feeding activity ........ and then I came up with a figure that does not even fit on my calculator. I did a few calculations increasing number of fisherman ect. Conclusion No way this fish can be outfished.

There is no doubt in my mind that conservation is here for a reason and that if it wasnt for todays conservation laws and things like marine reserves etc put in place, there would be many more fish in serious trouble.

Here in KZN Karrenteen, called Streepies in the Cape waters as well as Pinkies, called Varkies in the Cape waters are getting very scarce here in KZN. The Streepies also migrate to us in Winter. My thoughts are that the Shad that feed on these fish as well as other baitfish are actualy, litteraly destroying the populations of Streepies and Varkies.

Hey guys these are just my theories and as said before I got banned from a site because I strongly believe in these possibilities. It was said that I was not promoting conservation. Lol. I have caught more fish than some okes have changed underpants.

Hope to here from our Scientists soon.

By the way Koper sounds like you know your way around the ocean. Ps that you know your stuff!!!

 

[Koper]

I wish I knew my way better around the ocean, maybe I would have caught more fish...

The long and the short of my believe is that the ocean is such a vast unknown resource, I don't even think we know maybe 5% off what's happening in that unknown expense of water.

Our scientist think they know and understand, but do they really (not badmouthing you guys, you doing a hell off a job)?

Should have gone into Marine Biology.

 

[witwolf]

my knowledge of 30 years on the sea conclude thus: elf/shad is a pelagic species and roams all over the world nearly. we caught shad in our purse seine from Mauritania to Angola from 200 to 400ton in 1 set. in Namibia the catch was very limited up to 20 fish in a set but only those seasons the water was hot and the fish all 10kg and above. in Falsebay we hunted them day and night and the sea literately boiled when they feed and you had to move to keep up with the shoals. even this year measly 25days old and still a week ago they had the sea boiling again from 5 houses right up to macassar. my 50c is that you cannot ban a pelagic specie from a fisher who use a line. a linefisher cannot ever decimate a pelagic specie. STOP THE TRAWL NETS AND PURSE SEINE NETS THAT TARGET THESE SHOALS OFFSHORE. Look at cob and geelbek and others, one trawlnet kills more cob a day than the total catch of all linefishers could do in a day on the south african coastline. trawling can be done even when linefishers is at home.

 

[COBIA777]

Hi Witwolf

Very interesting reply.

Koper.... Totaly agree about the diversity of our ocean, and there is only two doors in our ocean warm and cold currents. Yip I think under circumstances our scientists are doing a splendid job. I was on the beach a few days ago and got chatting to a MCM officer accompliced by two learners doing some field work training. Got going with this theory of mine and these students were taking some serious notes. I have been extremely fascinated with our oceans since a youngster. I have read many a Jacques Coustou book and was a regular viewer of his program on tv.

Ok so back to the Shad. Our limit started with 2 then 4 then 5 then back to 4 shortly after the fishing licence introduction. In my own personal opinion I certainly believe that its time to increase the limit to at least 6 fish per day and put a min and maximum size limit in place. 35cm to 50cm max.

As far as catching culprits exceeding limits and size restrictions are concerned for any type of sea creature , I think only a drop in the ocean are caught. ( speaking of shore based angling only )

You sometimes see this fish for sale in stores. I wonder if they are impoted from neighbouring waters or international waters via netting practices. Tons as explained earlier are captured in this way. There is such an emphasis on Shore angling for Shad but I wonder how transparent our fish scientists are about the capture of this fish is along our coast. Hey dont get me wrong here people have to eat and earn a living. I know that beach sceine netting is a common practice from the Cape shores and there is no way to determine what is going to end up in the net other than the targeted fish, it could be a shoal of Shad. There is a strong public outcry when these things happen.

Just a little off the subject. I saw my second propper Galjoen, yes propper Damba, not the Banded Galjoen caught from KZN shores last year September. Back in the day they apparently were frequently caught in the winter spring months from the KZN shores. Back in the Cape the control of this fish has been under control for many years yet there is no visible sign that these fish have grown abundant enough to stretch themselves along our coast. Food for thought.

Anyway nice chatting guys. At least I have not been banned yet.

 

[willem wikkel spies]

moenie worry oor ban nie. hier is nie kinders nie......
moenie persoonlik hier raak nie, dis my raad.

shad, elf, tailor, bluefish, kom reg oor die wereld voor.
in amerika was daar gevalle van aanvalle op mense "shad"

shad is n aasvis soos sardines.
alles eet shad, noem dit maar.

so om hulle te vang is om mullet te vang, net lekkerder om te eet.

ek dink wel, dat shad soms n pes is, en dat hulle alles opvreet wat voorkom.
hulle stop vir niks nie.

verder behoort jy te weet, dat shad sal alles uit hulle pense kots net om nog te kan eet.
hulle swem in skole waar almal min of meer dieselfde grootte is, ander vreet hulle mekaar op.

so, ons praat eintlik van n klomp varke wat swem, as jy my vra!!!

 

[willem wikkel spies]

ek glo regulasies is daar om die voortbestaan te beskerm en te sorg dat ons more weer vis kan vang.

soos koper tereg gese het, ons weet eintlik niks van die see af nie

 

[COBIA777]

Ek stem saam.

 

[On_Dad]

Hi all,

Latest news on the topic:

SASSI has approved LEGAL sale of SHAD/ELF on condition it is caught PE and southwards. 

http://www.wwfsassi.co.za/?keyword=shad&m=sitesearch&online=&application=&s=

Was at a store in Gauteng today where they had large stock and fish barely making size, i mean 301mm?

Please excuse my ignorance, but is the species found in KZN not Pomatomus Saltatrix as well?
What is the bag limit for commercial fisherman?

Will there be any shad left?

 

[Gerbou]

they only approved it now? but as I understand its been sold since 2007 is it considered green on the sassi list now?

 

[COBIA777]

Double standards here...... so one can go thru a red robot in PE but in KZN its ilegal.

I am gonna do some research on this, see what I come up with, just for interest sake.

 

[Foxhat]

I live and fish on the Bluff in Durban. 30 to 40 years ago it was normal to live off fishing and yes you are right, in the late 70's to early 80's we never saw shad for 7 years.

We had to travel down the south coast to load up and the fish were thick. The shortage was only in our area off Durban. The shad offshore now are in abundance all year and practically are a menace.

The seasonal geelbek that we catch have always been there, they just seem to be much deeper, although over 1 month of the year in particular, they come close and hundreds get caught up in the shark nets off Durban and are caught off the South Pier in big numbers from the side.

Sardine runs have always been sporadic, but 2 years ago off Durban beach front, the seine netters netted everyday for 5 months. Never in my life have I seen so many sardines, but alas, very little game fish.

There is no doubt that worldwide surveys by scientists accurately report overfishing eg:Codfish, North sea. Miraculously mother nature allows them somehow to recover somewhat, but it requires restrictions.

Without a doubt many more fish would find there way into the hatch if it wasn't for the damn sharks off Durban, this population needs to be culled, not protected!

 

[willem wikkel spies]

Foxhat wrote:

I live and fish on the Bluff in Durban. 30 to 40 years ago it was normal to live off fishing and yes you are right, in the late 70's to early 80's we never saw shad for 7 years.

We had to travel down the south coast to load up and the fish were thick. The shortage was only in our area off Durban. The shad offshore now are in abundance all year and practically are a menace.

The seasonal geelbek that we catch have always been there, they just seem to be much deeper, although over 1 month of the year in particular, they come close and hundreds get caught up in the shark nets off Durban and are caught off the South Pier in big numbers from the side.

Sardine runs have always been sporadic, but 2 years ago off Durban beach front, the seine netters netted everyday for 5 months. Never in my life have I seen so many sardines, but alas, very little game fish.

There is no doubt that worldwide surveys by scientists accurately report overfishing eg:Codfish, North sea. Miraculously mother nature allows them somehow to recover somewhat, but it requires restrictions.

Without a doubt many more fish would find there way into the hatch if it wasn't for the damn sharks off Durban, this population needs to be culled, not protected!

I can tell you this:"if I keep on bring fish to the boat and being taxed the whole time, I'm not going to be happy about it.

it seems like there is a imbalance, but how to rectify it is the question?