Question on Shark Fishing

A

Arrie D

Senior Member
Something that has bothered me for a long time and would like to put the question out there.

If landing a bronzie/raggie female and she is pregnant  - does the weight of the fish (now not being buoyant) not crush the pups and the fish intestines ? Remember she is also tired and cannot necessary tension her muscles for protection.

Then for the photo we sit on her back - does this do even more damage ?

Then we pull her by the tail - to release. Does this not cause damage to the spinal cord.

Then she swims away tired, hurt and  falls prey to other sharks as she gets over the drop.

Same questions for gaffing. Does the gaff wound get infected.

Does the gaff mark not bleed and attracts other shark as soon as the fish is over the drop.

This now if the fish was not gaffed in the stomach.

Would love to read your response. 
 
K

kitefisher

Sealiner
Arrie,

Some very much needed questions there bud.I do not proclaim to have the answers,but I will wager a few "guesses". Firstly I would have to agree with the lack of buoyancy now places added weight on pups,whether it is enough to "crush" them would be a guess from most people. If an angler then stradles her,without supporting his own weight to a large extent,in other words not sitting flat-out on her back,(like I have seen some savvy-Sealiners do,big ups to those guys) then I suppose the effect would be minimal,or let me say the same as her supporting herself,like in the first scenario.

 As for pulling her back by the tail,Once again I am speculating,but recaptures,must surely show that although this is nowhere near ideal,it is not necessarily fatal.The same would go for gaffing, again we all know it is not ideal but sometimes conditions/terrain dictates for some anglers to use a gaff.Yet again the only way one would be sure of the condition of the gaff-wound after some time would be from a recapture.It may even heal the way bitemarks from other sharks during predation or even mating. where biting is common ,heals.

The gaff in the stomach deserves the death penalty :fbash.

We must bear in mind that the ORI programme has been going since 1983 or thereabouts,and gaffing was only frowned upon much later.Like you, I sit and wait in anticipation to hear from fellow Sealiners who may have gaffed,posed on top of,and tagged and released a Raggie,and then to have had it recaptured without any significant remarks regarding her gaff-marks.

p.s  One could assume or rather wish/pray, that if such a female Raggie was recaptured in good health,that the birth of her litter went well.

Arrie, again , your questions really got me thinking and this is all I can come up with from a logical point of view.

Good post. 
 
A

Arrie D

Senior Member
Morning Kitefish - the problem I see is we will never know. Thats the concern. Has the pups survived or not. The dragging back of a fish 20 - 70kg is still ok - you can pic them up at the dorsal and assist the body weight - but not fish over a 100kg.

The gaffing - the gaff that is used is going to be rusty and or old blood and scare tissue from a previous gaffing still on the gaff - immediate infection ?

Just some more thoughts ?
 
K

khalaharikid

Sealiner
Read this post and see very valid comments statements and replys, except the ones from the peanut gallary lol,

Gaffing on the beach is a big no no, there is no need to gaff a fish from the beach, the shore break can work for you to, most gaffs are rusted and never cleaned so yes infection is a good possibility, do not gaff on the beach, just helps the shark a bit in a struggle to survive when it is realesed.

kk
 
F

fishfinder23

Senior Member
agree about the gaff...i hate gaffing any fish if i don't intend on eating it...and i don't intend on eating a shark, so why gaff it?sure some situations call for it, and i'm not reprimanding anyone, however i personally don't enjoy pulling a gaff into a beautiful animal. I would rather try my best to land the fish in an area no gaff is needed...just my2 cents... ;)
 
Marthin

Marthin

Sealiner
Sea Monster made a very valid point the other day... Let's take the 200kg plus bronzie they caught from the beach with a very likely large lip and strong rip 20 metres from the dry sand... Would you rather struggle another 20 metres to try and subdue the fish, yanking even more on its tail where a simple small gaff to a fin would finish the job in less than 5 minutes. There's not always a crowd of people to land a fish like that on a beach, and not all beaches are a gentle slope.

As for the rusty gaff and infection, i would go as far as saying NOT A CHANCE, but i'm likely to be informed different for a learned friend. Without any written knowledge on it, just observation, 1. We want easily rusting hooks so they can rust out of the fish's mouth. Many of these species eat rays and skates with POISONOUS spines that stick in their mouths, body and all over with little to no ill affect. A gaff i can't see causing any problem.

Then i'm not certain but i'll look into it during the day, but i think sharks have a natural anti-biotic substance that helps them against any form of infection, and if this is the case, i've caught FAT well feeding galjoen with a rusting hook in it's guts that i found when cleaning it, and if it was that healthy with something like that in it's stomache, i cant see a rusty puncture in a sharkfin causing it any discomfort, especially if you see the deep scarring due to mating. Also note that female sharks have thicker skin on pectoral fins and certain other areas specifically for mating, so i actually think utilizing this to get a fish landed and released quicker is a good thing.

But i havent caught a shark bigger than 25kg so im no expert.
 
K

kitefisher

Sealiner
KK

Got to agree fully with you regarding the gaff from the beach.

@ Arrie

Once again I must emphasise that my thoughts are by no means scientific,it is merely speculating,and as you say, we may never know the answers.As for gaffs,Some anglers believe that they have their place when fishing certain types of terrain,and they actually believe that they are doing the fish less harm in applying the gaff,than they would otherwise.I am not criticising them at all,as I must admit I have in years gone by, seen some maestros with a gaff,guys who know exactly where and when to gaff,and how to use the water with great effectiveness to ensure landing their quarry.(the mickey mouse fish that I catch, would never warrant the use of a gaff anyway lol)

I suppose one could contact ORI and ask them for statistic on 100kg plus female Raggie recaptures for example,from the venue on the taggers card it would be able to ascertain if was caught from a beach ,because then one can assume that it was most likely dragged back to the ocean by its tail.

As for making it back to the drop,I think many swim-baiters will attest to the fact that although it is an effective means of catching sharks,not every swimbait making it back to the drop and beyond constitutes a "fish on"

Lastly,seeing as it is not illegal to use a gaff(as far as I know) maybe one or two of the TV-shows could do a section on disinfecting a gaff and keeping it that way,as I honestly dont think the use of it will be erradicated completely.

Just more thoughts, probably worthless Zim $
 
A

alchar

New member
The guys in Namibia often gaff their bronzies. Many of these get recaught where the old gaff markes have healed well, Spyker Kruger can perhaps offer comment here. Sharks demonstrate a high tolerance toward bacterial infection and any flesh wound heals quickly. The longer it takes to land a shark the higher the lactic acid build up will be in the animal which could lead to mortality. The use of a carefully placed gaff in such incidences is definitely questionable.
 
J

JJ Pienaar

Sealiner
If landing a bronzie/raggie female and she is pregnant  - does the weight of the fish (now not being buoyant) not crush the pups and the fish intestines ? Remember she is also tired and cannot necessary tension her muscles for protection.
[/b]
 Raggie’s only give birth to one pup, prolonged stress of her lying on dry land unsupported  may cause damage to her and the pup, and some times even  a miss carriage “dead pup”.

I don’t know about bronzies

Then for the photo we sit on her back - does this do even more damage ?

[/b]This should not be done at all “sitting on her”, but most guys who know this only stand over the fish and don’t sit on it…

Then we pull her by the tail - to release. Does this not cause damage to the spinal cord.
[/b]
Even when releasing any ‘shark big or small” it should not be swung or drag’d by the tail to release it might dislocate their spinal cord “ so keep the fish in the shallow water if possible” , use  the wave action to pull her back “the water will support most of her weight so wait for the waves timing to hull her  â€œ4people are necessary to do this”.
[/b]
Then she swims away tired, hurt and  falls prey to other sharks as she gets over the drop.
[/b]Pregnant Female Bronzies & Raggies are big girls often pregnant raggies are 260kg+ and are often the biggest fish in the area at the time but predation is highly likely in CTP and Wild Coast waters [/b]where many big sharks frequent.[/b]


Same questions for gaffing. Does the gaff wound get infected.

[/b]Most fish have a high immune system just before birth to deal with the stresses of giving birth which lowers their immune system  , infection is highly possible, but so is infection in hooking a raggie in its mouth with a baited hook.

Does the gaff mark not bleed and attracts other shark as soon as the fish is over the drop.
[/b]
When [/b]mating [/b]male garries bite continually in to the female to get a grip to mate causing massif scaring and bleeding so I don’t think if gaffed contently will cause any harm “but gaffing should only be a last option and the person who is doing the gaffing should know where and how to gaff” , when raggie females give birth blood, body fluid’s and the new born  pup sent  might attract predators.   

This now if the fish was not gaffed in the stomach.

[/b]The person who is gaffing should know what he is doing when gaffing and should have assistance for his and the fishes safety….. and gaffing should only be done  if there is no other option to… there is always that nifty rope tailing “Gaff”  

Guys this is fishing we cant always be certain that our catches make it after release, but as for our raggie population in SA over the years , we have the one larges population on raggie’s in the world where as Aus and others countries their population is decreasing because of  illegal fining, long lining  and other causes… just keep at taking proper care of your catch the best you can when caught  and releasing, then every thing should be okay My 2c....
 
K

khalaharikid

Sealiner
Marthin wrote:
Sea Monster made a very valid point the other day... Let's take the 200kg plus bronzie they caught from the beach with a very likely large lip and strong rip 20 metres from the dry sand... Would you rather struggle another 20 metres to try and subdue the fish, yanking even more on its tail where a simple small gaff to a fin would finish the job in less than 5 minutes. There's not always a crowd of people to land a fish like that on a beach, and not all beaches are a gentle slope.

As for the rusty gaff and infection, i would go as far as saying NOT A CHANCE, but i'm likely to be informed different for a learned friend. Without any written knowledge on it, just observation, 1. We want easily rusting hooks so they can rust out of the fish's mouth. Many of these species eat rays and skates with POISONOUS spines that stick in their mouths, body and all over with little to no ill affect. A gaff i can't see causing any problem.

Then i'm not certain but i'll look into it during the day, but i think sharks have a natural anti-biotic substance that helps them against any form of infection, and if this is the case, i've caught FAT well feeding galjoen with a rusting hook in it's guts that i found when cleaning it, and if it was that healthy with something like that in it's stomache, i cant see a rusty puncture in a sharkfin causing it any discomfort, especially if you see the deep scarring due to mating. Also note that female sharks have thicker skin on pectoral fins and certain other areas specifically for mating, so i actually think utilizing this to get a fish landed and released quicker is a good thing.

But i havent caught a shark bigger than 25kg so im no expert.
Click to expand...
You have a point, big seas easier to gaff the shark and minimize the fighting time, however you show me one person that can time and time again put that gaff where you want it in the fin, not many if any at all. yes i have seen it done and done it myself, it is not easy and you can end up being on the recieving end of a big suprise  . this pic was before i joined sealine and my eyes were opened to how the angler is responsible for the fish they catch and realease, this was a 174kg grey at Sitonga Transkei
 

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Marthin

Marthin

Sealiner
KK definately not a job for the inexperienced. I've only gaffed a few edibles from rocks and while tuna fishing and i havent put one gaff in the rights spot according to the angler, and i havent gaffed one fish in nearly the same area.

So it's definately not an easy task, has it's place i think, and should not always be frowned upon.

That being said i've seen some of Trophy/Brett's fish and i don't think he uses a gaff at all.
 
K

khalaharikid

Sealiner
Marthin

Experience- there is no better.

I am 9 to 0 on fish over 100kgs  , one day i will get mine but i dont want a gaff to spoil the moment on such a beut of a fish, if it is done right happy. But if the gaff is in the wrong place, spoils the whole concept of catch and realese 
 
A

Arrie D

Senior Member
If have caught a couple of fish over a hundred  - and for the last 10 years have not gaffed a fish. You need to summarize the spot you fishing and decide were you will be landing the fish before you start fishing the spot.

Surf fishing is easy - tip of the tail and lead the fish out with the wave action.

 
 
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