Presentation

[Basspro]

So I make / made up quite a few Leadcore leaders to attach to my mainline - U know in place of "tubing" - (which I still use at times) One end has a loop to attached to swivel for hooklink etc and the other end is tied via a 5 turn Grinner Knot to the mainline - "mainline pushed through the leadcore"- ... has anyone used this method?

Question: How many of U guys actually prefer / use leadcore & what brands - Have U found that the Leadcore needles are flimsy & break while treading the leadcore - ???? any ideas here welcome ... which are good one's ??

Well mine (Gardner) broke last nite - so now I use a sewing needle which I find works just as well.

 

[momo330]

bass pro i have used 2 brands and not had problem with either of them. suffix heavy core and kryston 45lb. i use the fox splicing needles and havnt broken one yet. i prefer using leadcore when doing margin work on slack lines. i feel its most effective this way. if you fish tight lines with leadcore i dont think its going to lye flat on the bottom...

 

[Basspro]

Makes sense - will give the Fox splicing needle a go. I have very seldom fished tight lines except on extreme distance when I do big lakes - yet there also no issues regarding leadcore.

 

[MadCarper]

Basspro, I would only use leadcore in openwater fishing situations... they tend to cut into reeds and most snags quite easily, leaving you with a broken off line, and leaving the fish permanently snagged up. Seen it with my own eyes...

I used the Kryston heavy leadcore and sometimes the Sufix ones... I must've broken at least 5 needles by now, but still have 2 left, hahaha!!!!

 

[Basspro]

Yeah I don't like "snag fishing" anyway - I fish close to reeds only if I have to but will mostly avoid it & fish it when I go for Bass - If I do I'll adjust accordingly & make sure I'm very near the rods.

Sure these needles are freakinly expensive - I'm gonna stock up on actual sewing needles 'cos they work. My wife shook her head when I took her sewing needles last night.

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do hey -

 

[christodeb]

Go to www.rratlapiangling.co.za , and send Jan Steytler an email. He made me two splicing needles free of charge. They work better than anything else that i have tried. I bet they would be very cheap if he charges you for them!

 

[Basspro]

Excellent - I luv this site - always someone willing to help - Cheers man - I'll do that !!!!

 

[Spod]

Hey Basspro... Yeah those needles break for nothing... I used the Fox ones and they something like R85.00 for 2, very flimsy.....
I hardly ever use leadcore anymore, but as MC said for open water it works not too bad. I just have an issue with it as its abbrasive against the carps scales. I use the mono leader and tungsten tubing and Im very happy with this setup, I changed when I was targeting a very snaggy water and now even use it in open water... love it.

As for the leadcore, sufix leadcore is actually leadless, the metal is more an alloy, this came about with the UK complaining about the lead being dropped in the waters, where ppl were saying the lead was/is contaminating the water...lol! and they now on about the leads (weights) that we drop off...lol! (opportunity to develop glass weights?) lol!

The correct way to attach your leadcore is to feed one of the spliced loops through the swivel and stick the other end through that loop, then move the knot sothat it looks like a reef knot in the swivel, in otherwords, the loop end must move from the front of the swivel to the back of the swivel... (if this doesnt make sense, i'll put a pic up.)
Then the leader to leadcore side, make a loop knot in the main line, a figure eight will do fine, and loop to loop the mainline and leadcore. If you using an inline lead setup, make sure the lead is able to pass these knots.

 

[siocnarf]

I use a big sowing needle and it works just as well.

Before you close the splice, put a swivel or quicklink on the leadcore and then finish the splice. Then you have the swivel inside the loop. On the other side also splice and connect loop to loop with your mainline.

I have used Fox, Kryston, ESP and Suffix and they are all ok.

I just want to ask a couple of questions in general about comments made here.

If leadcore is not well suited for long distance fishing (tight lines), why would tubing be better for long distance. It will also not be laying flat and so would any other material

Why do you think leadcore will injure a carp more easily. I have never landed an injured carp with leadcore.

Why do you claim that leadcore snags easier than tubing. I have actually retrieved many fish from reeds where the fish swam into the reeds and the leadcore did not cut into anything - BECAUSE OF IT"S THICKNESS

 

[Spod]

Ok! here we go again with this topic LOL!
Eish its been a bone of contention on many a forum!

So im gonna give my oppinion in direct relation to your statements and questions mnr siocnarf:

Yes a sewing needle works very well, just blunten the point ever so slightly.

I found that puting the swivel directly in the loop before splicing causes more stress on the leadcore shield than looping the leadcore in the swivel, this way there is actually two load bearing sides on the swivel. Like a reef knot.

All those makes are known manufacturers and their goods are fine to use, no problem with the stregth and clampability in the splice.

At Long distance fishing lol! and close, tight lines is gonna make both leadcore and tungsten tubing on flo/carb not ly on the bottom, a flying back lead could help in both instances...

I have seen through my angling where I have lifted scales on a carp, and that was a 800mm leadcore leader and a 7,5kg mirror carp, where the leadcore was longer than the carps lateral length, I know you use a much longer leader but I still cant see it helping. Ive put a pic up so you can see the scale lifted. Now I use a 500mm tungsten tube on my f/carb leader and I havent had any damage, even at only 500mm long. The secret is a thicjer leader, at least 0,5mm diameter, even go upto 1mm if you need .

I had this arguement with Guru once Mwhahahaha! where I said the leadcore feels like a hacksaw blade ... even when wet, if you can remember this lil tiff lol!
I have also experienced leadcore cutting into reeds, not once many times, I think it depends on the reeds too, ripe or green, they have a difference in hard/softness. Ive just found that the mono handles the reed situation a whole lot better.

 

[siocnarf]

Spod

I am asking these questions because I just feel that some of the equipment used in this style of fishing is just shot down by people who have heard or read something somewhere.

The scale on your fish could have been lifted by a snag or in the fight it could have been scraped off on the bottom, who knows because we do not see what is happening under the water while the fight is taking place.

I use leadcore in 90% of my fishing and I have never had scales lifted by the leadcore.

Do yourself a favour and splice the swivel within the loop and do a pull test and then, do it your way and do a pull test. I do want to ask you to do the pull test while the setup is attached to your reel and your reel is on your rod, like in normal fishing conditions. I don't care what rod you are using but your rod is going to break before you break the setup where the swivel is spliced within the loop. If you do a pull test on a work bench you can virtually break anything. Remember that when you are out fishing, you do not fish with a 100% locked up reel and that makes a huuuuuge difference.

If you claim that leadcore snags or cuts easier into snags than tubing, then please stay away from braid. My reasoning is as follows: Braid is known for cutting into trees and reeds etc. It is a known fact. It is also a known fact that while under tension it is easily cut off by rocks or any sharp surface that it may come into contact with. You want to shoot my argument down by saying you are using a leader, so if you are fishing at 150 meters and you are playing a fish and the braid now gets pulled around a nice half rotten tree stump and this happens at 75 meter distance, how is your leader going to help now. You are stuck my friend, snagged up and 75 meter down the line the fish is still fighting and the thick leader is not assisting at all.

All I am trying to say is that we think we are clever but nothing that we do in our style of fishing is foolproof. When you hook a fish and this is always the case, you are endangering the fish and it can get injured because it is not swimming in it's natural state. I, you, we have now hooked the fish and it is in a fight for it's life and will do anything to survive. It is as dangerous to use leadcore, tubing, a thick leader or any other application and the one is not necesarrily more dangerous than the other.

I have seen many people using tubing on a thick leader. The tubing is even sometimes glued to the swivel. A leadclip with a T-Bar is used and while fighting the fish the braid snaps. What is the fish left with - (1) Some mainline (braid) (2) 5 meter leader and  1 meter tubing (3) Hopefully not a lead (4) a Hooklink (5) knot between the thick leader and the mainline that will stop any kind of tubing or a safety clip from sliding off the setup. My friend this fish is going to die and you still want to tell me that tubing is safer to use than leadcore and that leadcore should not be used in snaggy situations. If this is the case why do you use braid in snaggy situations because it is wrong and dangerous. I'll tell you why you use it, for better bite indication, so now explain to me where does the fishcare come in now. You are not in danger, the fish is.

Please try and remember, YOU shall never be in danger, the FISH will always be in danger.

 

[Basspro]

Ok guys : here's the thing - as much as carp fishing & its applications causes debate, difference of opinions etc..which I must agree I enjoy because it show's that we learning - & applying.

To each his own boys as long we practice safe angling & carp care is paramount i.e "RIGS"

Now I never "attach a swivel" to my loop - hardly ever - I make up leadcore with a loop at 1 end & the other end I leave "straight" yes yes I know how to make & attach lines via "loops" BUT I prefer my mainline to pass "in thro' the leadcore - of course with about 50mm lead removed" & I make a 5 turn Grinner knot - the lead passes over this much better in the event of a crack off or something.
I find safety rigs & running rigs to work better for me using tubing or leadcore - in this way I know carp is taken care of -

scales lifting --------- mmmmmmmm I'm yet to see tubing or lead core being the culprit.

 

[siocnarf]

Basspro

There is nothing wrong with attaching the leadcore and mainline like that. You also get a specialised glue, that dries instantanously once exposed to the sun, that you can apply to the knot before it is completed. After applying the glue, pull tight and expose to sunlight. I promise you that nothing is going to slip and the glue is flexible, not like superglue that stiffens the rig.

The glue is widely used in the flyfishing industry.

 

[Spod]

Siocnarf, to each his own was my mental answer while reading your post here, I wasnt attacking your method, not in the least, rather viewing my own opinion and personal experience of the leadcore application, yes there is a place for both systems, and yes I understand the braid implications in snagged waters, Braid is good stuff when it comes to high tension for line diameter, but very very bad on the abbrasive side, like you mentioned any scrapping and its off!

As for the line test in a vice? well that will never give a true indication..lol! The reason I made the loop through the swivel was to spread load and durability on the leadcore, hey, I know that to fit the swivel in the loop works, It just made more sense to give the leadcore more bearing surface, instead of a single strand in the eye of the swivel, maybe the engineer in me lol!
Obviously a drag setting needs to be set when fighting a fish, and even more so angling with braid, Hey I even unlock the reverse stop and wind forward and backward, kinda UK style lol!

Basspro, I only use a swivel at the safetyclip or inline lead end, the main to leadcore is the loop to loop or as most do, a grinner, that way everything can move over the joint, and is tested once assembled lol!

I only use the Fox safety clip lead systems with t bars in place, my hooklinks are a weaker strain than my leader.

Now coming back to the fish in the pic, I know this fish scale was lifted during the fight, I felt it all the way, and not due to a snag, this particular water is very open yet very very silty, 500mm of silt throughout the dam, it surfaced very close to its hookup site and this carp was a lively one and fought me all the way from 350m out, relentlessly, turning, rolling, the works. Funny thing was it was near the surface too, it never dived at all.

Look Im not saying my way is the safest and that's that! What Im saying is what I use now seems to work with my style and water I am angling.
Yes I can appreciate a fish swimming around a stump etc, and then snagging up, but a good angler wouldnt keep pulling or tugging to snap off, we have boats to go to the fish and at least attempt a rescue. When I use a 10m leader and its 30lb and 05-1mm, I can get to the fish and lift the main line till I have the leader in hand without snapping my 25lb braid, usually Im angling in 6m of water, then, as my hooklink is usually lighter than my leader, the worst that can happen is a hookpull(not desired) or the hooklink breaking, leaving a short section of line with the fish. Now in my humble opinion, I could never lift the line enough to get hold of a short leadcore section, hence in the event of a snappage, leaving the fish with a longer length of line to contend with, and not knowing if it is in actual fact freed. But as I said earlier.. this is my own oppinion and it works for me.

 

[Basspro]

Ok Spod now tell me how do I upload an image - share that info too since U done so well with the Lead core tread ....lol !!!

 

[Spod]

Basspro, the image must be a jpeg, best format for internets, then when you reply, dont use the quick reply box below the previous post, but rather use the reply button in the previous post found in the blue band, there you will find a browse box, where you can find youtr pic on your pc.

 

[Spod]

Ok, I have uploaded the leadcore to swivel pic, to show the load bearing capabilities.

pic has 3 parts, this is just to help those that dont understand the description I wrote.

 no 1.   make a spliced loop in the leadcore, also you can see the Fox safety clip in the pic

no 2.   now thread the spliced loop through the swivel eye and then thread the other end of the leadcore through the spliced loop.

no 3.  now pull tight and tease the loop behind the swivel eye.

 

Hope this helps

 

[MadCarper]

francois,

"If leadcore is not well suited for long distance fishing (tight lines), why would tubing be better for long distance. It will also not be laying flat and so would any other material"
- My question to this is, at long distance using for example mono, would the line not lie in a bow/sagg to such an extent that your leadcore would be lying on the ground anyway, if you are fishing long distance? Obviously it would be different with braid, or would it be?
The only way you will get your leadcore/tubing to lie flat on the bottom is to fish slack lines...

"Why do you claim that leadcore snags easier than tubing. I have actually retrieved many fish from reeds where the fish swam into the reeds and the leadcore did not cut into anything - BECAUSE OF IT"S THICKNESS'
- I "claim" that leadcore snags easier than tubing, firstly because I have had to unsnag fish myself, where the leadcore has cut into the reeds, versus having had to get fish out of snags where the tubing has not cut into the reeds, but the line has only tangled around reeds etc... in this situation I would try and net the snagged fish, then bite my leader off and retrieve the leader normally quite easily by pulling it out by hand... With the snagged up leadcore (Kryston Heavy leadcore that is thicker than other brands), I've had to literally go and unwind the leadcore where it got wrapped into the cluster of reeds, for example.
If you look at leadcore, its fixed between your leader/mainline and your rig, so when it rubs against a snag, it cannot come loose on the line, where tubing can come loose and slide up the line making it pretty impossible to cut into anything... And I would say that leadcore has a rough texture that could make it cut into objects better than a smooth piece of tubing or even mono would...

perhaps it does not always happen that leadcore cuts into snags, like you found. however the possibility is there, so why risk it? lol!

But after reading your second reply, to Spod, you have blown this whole thing up way bigger than just the leadcore/tubing debate, including the type of main line used, etc into the whole thing... almost as if you are trying to cloud everything up so that everything we use in fishing seems unsafe, lol! I still believe, despite all the arguments, that tubing is the better option overall... but hey that is just my opinion..  as for your braid mainline getting snagged 75m out etc? How often does that happen compared to the carp swimming into the reeds? On top of that, 99% of the few times that I've had fish snagged up in the middle of the dam, I've always been able to retrieve my mainline braid as well as my leader, from my boat.... BUT, if a person is going to stand on the bank and try and pull your snagged mainline loose, then its a different story, and very irresponsible.

Its always messy to try and argue a point on a forum, I prefer having a debate face to face on the bank, where its normally easily sorted out and the things one says comes over much more clear... This debate can go on and on....!

 

[Basspro]

Spod that is exactly how I do mine ......... nothing wrong with that - I do agree on the loop idea on the swivel - much stronger.

This will help for those just starting off - well done !!!!

 

[siocnarf]

Johan

Can I remind you that we are on an open forum and that there are a lot of newcomers to this facet of angling. Surely the more info that can be given here the better. If I voice my opinion, it is my opinion and you can take it or leave it. I am not fighting with anybody but all I do is look at all the possibilities and I try to also bring in the experiences that I had.

What I do not like is that people are making statements about a specific material and don't really think about it, in the sense that the very same thing may also happen to other types of materials.

I do however agree with you that at distance with mono sagging that both the leadcore and tubing will be flat on the bottom and not like somebody else said that the leadcore will be up and the tubing down.

Years ago I have said that there is going to be fish casualties irrespective of the care one takes, therefor I maintain that once you put a baited hook in the water you are actually endangering the fish. I have accepted that as a given and therefor take extra care where possible.

You'll also me shocked at how many anglers are still pulling for a release because not everybody owns a inflatable or a canoe.

I also agree with you that a face to face discussion is better but not always possible and then discussing something like this on an open forum is also good.

I thought we know each other long enough that you'll understand that this is not a personal attack on anybody although I sometimes feel to have "Rammies" resurface if I read some of the idiotic opinions of some contributors on different forums.

Keep the clothes on Johan, it is only my opinion, nothing more. It will not become law tomorrow.