permits /licenses/ scraps of paper in the wallet

[Rasgriz]

Howzit guys

Can anyone tell me what the penalty of fishing without a license is?

I was at kreeftereef the other day and was asked for the first time, no problem cause I have one and had it on me. BUT, I took a buddy along who has never fished before and refused to fork out for a license, so the oke took a fairly long look at mine and then left without checking my buddies.

What sort of penalties are there in place if you are caught without a license? I have been told that they confiscate your tackle?? Someone told me they take you into a small dark room and do bad things to you! BAD THINGS!!

 

Regards

 

Rasgriz

 

[TRDwp]

They cant do anything physical to you(make sure you get badge number or name to be safe LOL)Not sure if they allowed to confiscate?!.Monetary fine I have heard in the R300 range.

Cheers!

 

[jb]

The Marine Living Resources Act provides wide powers of search and seizure.

But any seizure would have to be proportional. In other words if your parking meter has expired they can't take your car away from you.

This is set out in the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act which codifies the Consitutional protection of fair Administrative Justice.

If the Fisheries Control Officer does confiscate your kit then you are entitled to appeal to the Minister.

Only Marthinus Van Schalkwyk can sign off on an appeal. Since I would imagine that he is a busy man I would encourage everyone to appeal against heavy handed inspectors.

The appeal must be lodged within 30 days from the date of the seizure or the time that you are aware of the seizure.

I would respectfully suggest though that your life would be a lot simpler if you did not do naughty stuff and that you either get your friend to fork out for a permit or find someone else to go fishing with.

jb

 

[Nofish]

Jb
Another part of the question is what if you dont have your permit on you, For example I went trout fishing one saturday and had my permit with me, but the Sunday when we went surf angling I forgot it in my other tackle box.

What happens in such a matter.

 

[Fleming]

[color="#006600"]Nofish[/color] wrote:

Jb
Another part of the question is what if you dont have your permit on you, For example I went trout fishing one saturday and had my permit with me, but the Sunday when we went surf angling I forgot it in my other tackle box.

What happens in such a matter.

I got caught like this a while ago. Apparantly I could have gone to court and got the fine scrapped but the effort involved was to much so I just paid the fine. I cant afford to take half a day off work to go save myself the R250 for the fine.

 

[jb]

tricky one!

Section 13 of the Marine Living Resources Act (which deals with permits) requires that the permit holder must have the permit available for inspection at the locaiton where the permitted activity is being conducted.

So the inspectors are entitled to ask that you have it handy.

That having been said if you are up to your armpits in a bloodworm hole it is likely that you will have the permit in your car.

One possible approach is to ask the inspector for a couple of minutes to dash back home and present the permit. keep a note of the permit number and provide your ID number so that the inspector can see that you are not about to dash off and get a mate's permit.

It is a very unreasonable inspector that would refuse that offer.

Since it has been my experience that most inspectors are incapable of even the slightest exercise of discretion and delight in the most petty exercise of their powers, I don't know what value my suggestion would be.

jb

 

[kp11]

I was under the impression one had to have both a freshwater an saltwater fishing licence

 

[GTZA]

1) You need both freshwater and marine fishing licenses.

2) You must have the license available for inspection i.e. within reasonable distance to retrieve.

3) Powers of seizure etc. have to be specifically prescribed in law.

4) Law enforcement procedure is prescribed in the Criminal Procedures Act.

5) An alleged offender has to be provided with written dobumentation of the specific legal provisions he is alleged to have transgressed.

PS, If you find out where to obtain a freshwater license please let me know.

 

[Noddy]

What if, you're going angling on the reefs, ex: strand reefs.
You parked your car 15mins walk away from the the point where you enter the water. from that point, it's another 10-15mins walk in the water to get to the rock you gona be casting from.

And the inspector calls you, asks for your permit?

(i would imagine they would rather wait at the parking area here...?)

 

[Kumz]

I spent the last long weekend in Margate & when i noticed the Parkies doing inspection & i asked the guy what will he do if it is not to visible .

 

He told me it was fine to laminate it .

 

In ballito once i was told by another Parkie that you must not laminate it ???

 

What's the verdict ???

 

[GTZA]

Hehehe, inspectors are not famous for hardship. The keywords in law are: "reasonable and fair". It would not be reasonable to expect someone to carry a perishable piece of paper when wading chest deep through water. But then, MLRA does not set reasonable as criterium for appointment of an inspector.

But why invite confrontation? I keep certified laminated copies of my fishing and skippers licenses in my tackle boxes (2), car, bakkie and boat. Always available and no need to remember taking it along. Yes, it costs a few rand but it's worth my peace of mind.

 

[Walt]

Hi GTZA!Something's been bugging me about this licence system repercussions and perhaps you or someone else can clarify this.About 25 years ago,my dad and i were freshwater fishing at Zeekoeivlei and approached for our licences.Unbeknowingly our licences had expired which is no excuse.However,inspector wanted to confiscate all our gear,etc.We eventually had to pay a fine.As you know we're living in an age where there are so many scams.So,here's my question.If approached by an inspector,are we entitled to ask for identification?I ask this,as there may be bogus inspectors out there,which could be as they recently locked up a wannabee cop in uniform while going on duty and stating he was from another police station, as well as guys pretending to be all sorts including Car guards,etc.And what worries me is the angler who doesn't have a licence probably won't ask for ID as he is already in the wrong with no licence and wouldn't want to feel that he's making inspector feel intimidated.With the result a bogus inspector could confiscate gear under these pretences of being an inspector.To overcome this,the answer would be for all anglers to ask for inspector's Identification and report them if they in turn can't identify themselves as Inspectors.But what happens if inspector refuses to produce an identification and takes offence to angler asking for ID and in turn misinterprets this as hostility and resorts to enforcing the law?I have a licence and keep within the parameters of the law but there are individuals out there who will use these laws to rip off some of the more gullible people.And the answer would be to ask Inspector for ID but what are the implications of this?Cheers!

 

[duckbill]

i heard that if you are caught without a licence you will be strip searched. and in some regions the inspectors are female lol...

 

[GTZA]

Walt, never be intimidated by an inspector or any other law enforcement officer, even when you are in the wrong. All law enforcement officers whether uniformed or not, are required by law to carry identification to this effect and to produce such identification on request. The powers of a law enforcement officer can only be exercised if he has such official identification on his person.

So please, please. please always ask for official identification of any law enforcement officer, including fisheries inspectors, before conceding to any request from them. Also, always insist to be informed in writing of the specific legal provision you are alleged to have contravened, and of the mandated powers under which a search or confiscation is carried out, if so.

If the officer is ticked off, so be it. If he/she threatens or becomes physical, lodge a complaint with the official body or lodge a case of criminal assault.

 

[Angus]

Hypothetical question: You are armed, and are approached by a law enforcement official who either does not have or does not want to produce an official identification when asked by you to do so. If he then resorts to using physical measures/his weapon to effect an "arrest" on you, what are your rights wrt self-defence? Bear in mind that he has not proved his status as a law enforcement official.

 

[Walt]

Thanx GTZA!I've been approached by only 2 lots of inspectors up to now and they've been nothing but pleasant and my reference was more towards the con artistic bogus inspectors.There's so many impersonations going on by these innovative types that one's gotta be ahead of the game.

Laminations?I've done the same and made copies and laminated them and there's been no problems with inspectors after perusal.Cheers! 

 

[nevilled]

A probing question indeed, i say shoot the *****er

 

[GTZA]

Angus, Eish! This is getting into grey area now. Always keep three golden rules in mind:

1) Circumstances dictate i.e. your recourse will be different depending on whether you are quitly smoking pot in a corner or chasing someone around with your bait knife.

2) Any person has the right to effect an arrest in extreme circumstances e.g. when you are spooking drunk and have driven your landy through a crowd of toddlers.

3) You have the right to resist illegal arrest or defend yourself if you are under threat but only using the means and force appropriate to the threat. Example: You may defend yourself against someone of smaller stature but not by means of a weapon unless one is used against you. Also, if you weigh 130kg and your opponent is a 70kg chappie, kicking him in the head until he froths at the mouth is not a good idea.

 

[jb2]

[color=#006600]Angus[/color] wrote:

Hypothetical question: You are armed, and are approached by a law enforcement official who either does not have or does not want to produce an official identification when asked by you to do so. If he then resorts to using physical measures/his weapon to effect an "arrest" on you, what are your rights wrt self-defence? Bear in mind that he has not proved his status as a law enforcement official.

Lovely question could have been lifted from the pages of a Law School Exam paper!

Your subjectice intention is not to commit a crime but to defend yourself from people who you suspect to be people impersonating a police officer and acting unlawfully. The objective reality is that they are actually police officers and acting lawfully.  

I think the answer has something to do with attempt but I only got 50% on the exams and I left out that part.

The answer in the fisheries example is that a fisheries control officer is obliged to identify him/herself.

They are issued with special cards. There have been examples of Hout Bay inspectors refusing to identify themselves. The follow up from MCM was lacklustre

jb