Outriggers Vs Cape Waters

Freedom1

Senior Member
I am really having a great time whenever I go out to the canyon area for Yellowfin Tuna. One of the frustrating issues is the fact that when trolling, my lures (in various configurations) often gets tangled up. I have tried various setups and now I am considering (thinking) of getting outriggers fitted on my 28 ft Leecat.

Question 1. Is this a huge advantage in the Cape Waters?

Question 2: Who are the best local suppliers?

 

Please advise.
 

miles

Sealiner
Hiya

We have one problem here in the Cape, its called WIND!! Because we rarely get flat calm days, wind ALWAYS affects your trolling. That is why we troll with our rods in a 'flat' position, where-as the US and tropical anglers troll their rods in a 'upright' position. The 'flat' positions allows less line above the water, thereby creating less windage on the line.

When trolling, be it on a 18' boat or a 30' boat, you should be able to run at LEAST 6 lures behind your boat. Four of them on 'flats' and 2 on uprights. The majority of anglers pull birds and daisy chains on their uprights. This is a good way of seeing EXACTLY where your lures are running.

No matter what set-up you use, if you are turning the boat too quickly, they will tangle. Your turns need to be wide, so as not to cross the lines.

Very, very, very few boats use out-riggers in the cape. I've seen a couple of guys with them on their boats, but most don't even know how to use them. Just looks cool!!:SSS

Outriggers will only be a benefit on those rare windless days, when you can add more lures to your spread. For the 99% of the time, they will not be used. The wind simply doesn't allow one to use them.

Truth be told, your bulk of the YF you will catch will come from bait fishing for them. Trolling is just a means of FINDING the fish.

How many lures are you currently pulling behind your boat? What TYPE of lures are you using? There are other ways of making your trolling spread more effective and tangle free, or rather, less prone to tangling. Please give us a bit more information and we'll be able to assist!!

Regards

miles

ps. post some photos of the boat!!::S::S

 
 

aquadementia

Sealiner
What I've found in my limited experience trolling offshore lures, is that using clips instead of a knot to attach your Rapala, Halco or Storm Thunderstick is a very good way of tangling your lines very quickly! Iv also fished on a butt-cat where the skipper tries to put a lure out on a rod filling every single rear rod holder. Eleven (randomly selected, no particular pattern) lures out the back of a ski boat on a windy day doesnt work too well
 

thika

Sealiner
Miles,

Very informative post as always...I might be dof here, but are outriggers and clips not also used to give billfish some time to mouth the bait after they have whacked it with the snout as well as for spreading lures?

Also what about downriggers fot YF?

Pardon my ignorance..I know zulch about this kind of fishing
 

miles

Sealiner
The primary use of outriggers is to allow you to troll more line. The outriggers will SPREAD out your lures, allowing you to troll more lures, as well as covering a greater area of water. The height of the outrigger, also offers better action to the lure, much like a rod in a upright rod holder gives more 'life' to a lure compared to one in a 'flat' rod holder.

Downriggers are used for when fish feed DEEPER than what your trolling lures can dive too. The most popular deep diver is the Rapala Xrap 30 here in the Cape. The 30 denotes the depth the lure is designed to swim at, 30feet or about 10m deep. This depth is how-ever only achieved using very thin line and trolling the lure very far behind the boat. A more realistic depth on our usual tuna fishing tackle would be 4-8m deep.

The problem is that fish will often feed at say 30m deep. Your lures are only running at 4-8m deep, so you are not in the 'strike' zone. Downriggers is simply a way of getting your lures down there. The simplest form of a downrigger is the Scotty styled lead ball. You have a lead ball weighing a few kg's, which is attached to a winch on the boat by means on a thin cable. The ball has a quick release clip attached to it. You attach your main line, a few meters in front of the lure, to the downrigger ball. The ball is then set at which-ever depth you want, and thats how you troll. You can say set it at -40m, and your lure will now be pulled at -40m or there-abouts (depending on the lure).

The downside, they only work well when you troll VERY slowly. When you pick up speed, the ball will RISE up behind the boat, moving your line higher into the water column. When a fish strikes, the clip releases the line and you can fight your fish as one normally would.

Since most anglers troll around the 4-7knts speed, they use lures which are effective at those speeds. A downrigger is simply not compatable with the other lures optimal trolling speeds.

Our yellowfin are very finicky buggers when it comes to water temperature. When the temperature is warmer than 22degrees, the YF simply dis-appear. Another issue, is that at night, our YF do NOT feed. Yet, in the US waters, they ONLY catch YF at night. The most common thought reason is that their water is too warm in the day and the fish feed at night, when the waters cools down a bit. Sounds very plausible. Now, there is ALWAYS a thermocline out in the deep. When that warm water moves in, we don't know whether the YF move away with the cooler water or whether they stay in the area, but are simply staying very deep, below the thermocline, in the cooler waters. Trolling downriggers on those very warm seawater days is an experiment i still plan on doing, just to see whether they are deeeeep down............

Pictured below is us fishing for salmon with downriggers in British Columbia, Canada:

Here my wife's fighting a coho salmon, whilst we are still trolling the other rod in the photo at -30m

25ggxoh.jpg


 

Another view of the side mounted downrigger, completely operational as we troll at 1-1.5knt's with the bait set at -30m

2ijnns7.jpg
 

thika

Sealiner
Thanks Miles,

It all makes a lot of sense

At Protea Reefs out of Shelly beach you could trawl for weeks during daylight hours and only catch small shoal tuna (lots of them!)

At night though, and especially two/three hours before sunrise, we REGULARLY caught some nice fish up 30 kilo's drifting, on chum and never any small ones ( which maybe go into hiding?)

So what you say about them feeding in colder water, even if only a very few degrees, makes sense to me.

I reckon the tuna move down and not away....just seems like less effort, and the downrigger idea might work when the surface is hot...just never thought of trying it for that reason before!
 

tkei

Sealiner
Ok, my 2c.
as miles said, outriggers not going to be gr8 in the cape. They also cause a boat to roll quite a bit when deployed.
Thika, the drop back you are refering to is when live baiting usually. On lures, you want to come right as soon as possible as the fish will feel its not a real food fish its just chomped and reject it. with a natural biat, you want it to swollow it before coming tight.
as for down riggers, I believe they would be great in the cape for deeper feeding fish. I kenya they always have a downrigger down for both live bait and lures. for livies, cuda and gt's and marlin love it. When trolling lures, both marlin and sail spreads, they always have a lure on the downrigger. My mates dad has kept a log of strikes etc, and the downrigger catches 60+ percent of the fish. When tunny around the downrigger is invariably the first to be hit and then as the school rises, the rest go off (up to 11 rods away at a time). sure as yyou go faster, the ball will rise a bit, but if you trolling at 6 knots and you want the ball at 30m, just drop it 35 and then this alloows for the ball to rise 5m. you usually troll a lure similar to what you have on the surface, so if pulling "raps" then have a rap on the rifgger.
 

thika

Sealiner
So much knowledge on this site!

Thanks for that tkei.

I am gonna give it a go irrespective of the surface temperature and will report back in due course.

Now, regarding downrigging, another thing springs to mind and has to do with the point Miles raised:

Where are the fish when they are not on the bite?....from my diving days I know you hit temperature inversions in still water (little or no current), it also affects the viz!

Would it pay to lower a probe and see what the vertical temp variations are in the colder Cape waters?...or am I just getting too carried away here with my computer angling?

And where are the baitfish when the Tuna is off the bite?
 

nicos

Senior Member
thika wrote:
Would it pay to lower a probe and see what the vertical temp variations are in the colder Cape waters?...or am I just getting too carried away here with my computer angling?

I went hake fishing with some okes in the Southern Cape once, and they would drive some km's, lower a thermometer to a certain depth, drive more, lower again... until they found a temp range in a depth range that they liked, and then put down baits.

Wish I could remember the details, but it was 15 or 20 years ago.
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
I would really not bother with outriggers for tuna fishing in the Cape.
I have a small boat in fact the smallest in the league and I toyed with the idea a while back. However knowing only too well that the wind never really allows you to run too many uprights, outriggers would not be an advantage.

As Miles said they seem to be "nice to look at" and that's about it here in Cape Town.

When trolling for tuna it all boils down to two very simple things. The right trolling board and crew who know what to do with an upright rod and which one to drop on a tight turn.

Trolling Board
Simple:
One center flat for your wash lure
One upright in the middle of the two straights, dead centre. (For your very close wash lure or your whiskey rig)
Two flats at 30° set outside of those taking your lines over your motors and into the line of the props.
Two 45° outside of those or even up to 80° running outside your wake and creating width.
At the ends of your trolling board, two uprights also angled out at 35°.

So should the need arise you can run 5 flats and 3 uprights. Not advisable but you could.
This layout allows you to have major options.

Crew and the drop rod.
When trolling, let your crew know which way you are going to turn. I have worked the deck of boats like WhaleRider where we've got 13 lures out. If I'm on the lines YOU WILL NOT TANGLE. You may get a cross, which you quickly sort out.

My point.
If your crew knows which way you going to turn on marks, then they drop the rod on the side you are turning too. I put the rod tip of the said rig right into the water. This leaves the upright "other side rig" up and lets it cross over my side and then back once the tight turns are made.
Very very simple.

Weather/Wind
On my boat which is only 2.3m wide I run only one big bird and daisy chain in the chop of a capping ocean.
A - the choppier the sea the less effective your birds are (my opinion and I'll stick to this belief). When the sea gets up, I will take the bird out and run a plain big squid and chain. This has been far more effective and in fact in the choppier waters we have found the divers to work much better than the squids. This is for yellowfin.
When longfin are hot, which they normally are in a nice choppy NW, you just need 6 yamashitas or 5 X-raps, anything will do.

Simple troll setups.
I have posted this before but have to be honest in looking at it I reckon my most popular trolling pattern is this.

2gt69g2.jpg


When the sea allows it I will move the big bird and squid to the port and drop another one in on the starboard. I run 6 rigs in a decent sea and 5 in the slop.
If one particular thing works like a bird, then I'll go onto two and pull something else in.
This being said when we get yellowfin strikes on backlines it's not long and someone is onto a fish on the bait. Very seldom do we move off trolling after a yellow strike.

Big seas are the only thing that keep us on the troll.

j759qa.jpg

This is the biggest X-Rap Rapala make and so how is the size of the new havoc Nic has in store.
Miles if you think the last one was a longfin scarer, these are way way bigger.
But Mr Yellowfin is going to smoke these.

WHY TROLL
In all honesty it is easier to run 4 rigs. Two up, two down and have order.
I've had a 6 up strike of shoal size (45-50kg) yellowfin on backlines. NOT COOL!!!!!!!

More importantly this past season I only trolled two days to find fish and one of those was a longfin day.

I would much rather work the marks I find on the echo with chum than troll around all day. But that's just me and I prefer bait fishing to troll fishing anyday.
Besides, bait fish are SOOOOOOOOOO much stronger and contrary to most opinions you will almost on every trip be able to watch the buggers in your chum and feed him your chunk.

But then that brings us to chumming and I believe that, that is an art all of it's own and there are very few masters of it that I've come across.
 

miles

Sealiner
AWESOME post by Hammertime!! Plenty of very good information!!

Was digging through some old photo's and came across a few video clips i made. This one is when i had the Spanish Spearo's with me. Check the Yellowfin taking the chum ON the surface, in the first minute or so of the video clip.

[flash=425,344]http://youtu.be/loQvH25QVUk[/flash]
 

will101

Senior Member
EAT ME that's a sick clip Miles! I got a scotty downrigger with the boat but it has been removed, I need to re mount it. The boat's previous owner said that thing had them tight when other boats were still watching tv. I am just not sure where to mount this thing - and if I should mount it on a temporary bracket of some sort. It swings up and into the boat but it will still be in the way when you are not using it - I would prefer to ba able to take it off and pack it away. Who else are using these - can I get a few tips please?
 

Freedom1

Senior Member
Yislaaik guys!

I hope u all realise what a great help u are to us "new okes" into this fishing game.

Thanks so far and I will be using these practical tips and report back.

Thanks for the illustrations ... It helps like heck!
 

Freedom1

Senior Member
Miles,

Forgot to advise you that I went snoeking in Table bay on Sunday past and used most of your tips in the "dummies guide" that you posted ages ago..... Results were very positive and THANKS once again.

You guys are great!

I will post a pic of my boat soon....
 

Sharkie Eye

New member
Hi Freedom1,

Yup, saw you and your crew having fun from that beaut of a ride you have there. Could it be possibly because of my chum line that drifted to right under your boat? <smile>

My son even said “Hell pa, I wonder why these guys are hanging around here for the snoek instead of taking that beaut out to the Canyon?”

Very, very nice ride you have there! Pity I didn’t realize at the time that you are also a Sealiner, would liked to meat you in person and see that cat from closer up.

Next time though ……
With kind regards
 

Freedom1

Senior Member
You are absolutely correct when you say we have a complete jol when we are fishing........  Please advise your son that we only go out to the canyon area when the weather conditions are really, really SAFE and that is just the way it is to ensure that we continue having fun. Everytime we have gone out there, it has been a very, very enjoyable trip with great results...... that is why we are all totally hooked!

Catching snoek and yellowtal from our "baby" ...?

Love every minute of it and every experience is one that I will always remember ... the kids on board also have the time of their lives , even if they get sick every now and again ... Oh yes .. including myself!

Love the boat and the whole life style!

Love learning all the time and this forum really, really helps!

Now I recall .... You guys were next to us in the "fog" and I still called over?  Is that right?

Thanks guys!

Sidney
 

bcd63

New member
My one sportsfisher was delivered with outriggers and a penn manual downrigger, used now for the past two seasons it seems most of my YF hook-ups while trolling are on the outrigger this is possibly because the outrigger keeps the lure out of the prop wash in clear water, when the fish are deep which is most times the downrigger is a killer, also have a small aquaplane type downrigger which i brought from states tow it with your line clipped on it swims at approx. 12to 15m also very effective
 

thika

Sealiner
bcd63 wrote:
My one sportsfisher was delivered with outriggers and a penn manual downrigger, used now for the past two seasons it seems most of my YF hook-ups while trolling are on the outrigger this is possibly because the outrigger keeps the lure out of the prop wash in clear water, when the fish are deep which is most times the downrigger is a killer, also have a small aquaplane type downrigger which i brought from states tow it with your line clipped on it swims at approx. 12to 15m also very effective

Morning bcd63,

I have been lying awake trying to figure out some kind of "wing" or Rapala lip kind of rownrigger that will remain deeper at trawling speeds...

Could you perhaps sometime post a pic of it?

How do you decide your depth with the conventional d/rigger or is it more of a thumbsuck thing?

Regards
 

miles

Sealiner
Hiya

Thika, here's a few links to give you a starting point:

 

Z-wings are trolled very much like a normal downrigger on a seperate line: http://www.zwingdownrigger.com/

 

Dipsy Divers are very popular with the freshwater anglers here in Canada. This is trolled ON your main line. When you get a strike, the diver 'trips' and you can fight the five with less resistance from the dipsy diver:

http://www.trollingthescottishlochs.co.uk/dipsey_divers.htm

 

Similar to the dipsy diver is the jet divers. The most popular:

http://www.luhrjensen.com/downloads/tech-sheets/531JetDiver.pdf

 

Otherwise, you can also look at the Mann's G50 lures. They are the deepest diving lures on the market and can reach a depth of 50'. If you plan on trying them for our tuna, you'll have to rig it like this:

http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/monster_rigging.html

 

You do get some others, like:

http://www.tackledirect.com/droneplaners.html

 

Just depends on how fancy you wish to go..............

 

bcd63, how many Yellowfin fell to the downrigger? Do you perhaps know how many YF the boat caught for that time frame. Sort of trying to figure out what percentage of the fish was caught on the downrigger. Also, what lures were you running and at what depth was the downrigger set?

Regards

miles

 
 
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