New comer

Carpenter007

New member
Hi everyone, im new here. Ive been fishing for a long period when i was still a boy, but recently started fishing again. Ive nearly stocked up on equipment so that i also look like someone that knows what he is doing. The fever of wanting to fish all the time has me caught in its claws. I just would like to know what the difference is between conventional fishing and specimen fishing. And also if someone knows of places where one can go with wife and kids to sleep over for a weekend or so and fish serious carp, please advise...thank you and stywe lyne!
 

axle

Member
The biggest difference between conventional and specimen is carp care. With conventional, one makes use of quite low breaking strain line, rigs like Babyshoes that have 2 hooks etc. Specimen makes use of the hair rig, which is one hook and also higher breaking strain line. This is for the safety of the fish, in the event that you get snagged up, you can safely know you can get a fish out, and the hair rig is also a safer rig in that the hook holds are usually in the corner of the mouth. Specimen guys also make use of landing mats, so that fish are handled properly on the bank and don't just flop about on the grass, sand or rocks. We also make use of knotless landing nets, as the ones with knots tend to hurt fish or remove scales. Fish are also never kept in a keep net - what's the point? Some guys do what's called "sacking" a fish, where they place it in a special carp sack, if for instance it is late at night and they can't get a decent pic, or the fish is too tired to swim away, or if they want to check what it's been feeding by seeing it's poop in the sack. These sacks are made from fine material that doesn't do harm to the skin/scales.
Most specimen guys will also say to you that they are in search of the biggest fish in the dam as well - hence all the safety. In my instance, even if I catch a 1kg or 10kg fish, it gets handled the same way.
These are literally just the basics and gets a lot more involved with the more knowledge you acquire.
 
What utter BS. The difference between conventional and specimen is just the method.
Conventional/papgooi, you use a mieliebom with normal hooks and mielies, floaties etc.
Specimen use hair rigs and make feeding spots by boat, baitboat or some contraption they throw the feed with.

I do coinventional, and I also have an landing mat and rubberized net and I take care of the fish
Dont get fooled by this type of specimen angler's high and mighty. They use lead weights that is designed to break off when the fish takes the hook, thus poluting the water with lead(you really think they care about the fish as they claim?) They use all kinds of unnatural stuff like plastick and polystyrene etc as artificial baits on their hair rigs. So again you think they care about the fishes's health as they claim?

To be part of the specimen club you only need to buy a camo gazebo, camo rod and reels, camo baitboat, camo cap, jacket and undies. Then you are a specimen angler. The other stuff anyone can buy and use, where you want to use the papgooi or specimen method

And if you chose to go the conventional route, dont het confused by the thousands of different dips, floaties etc.
You need less than 5 dips, something sweet, something strong something fruity.
Floaties and baits, you will catch everywhere with a garlic float, maybe get some sweet/fruity flavour mielies for the other hook that will stay on longer.

I can give you a link to another site where I made a treat for the basics for people starting papagooi, its in afrikaans
 

axle

Member
Jean Claude Vaaldamme wrote:
What utter BS. The difference between conventional and specimen is just the method.
Conventional/papgooi, you use a mieliebom with normal hooks and mielies, floaties etc.
Specimen use hair rigs and make feeding spots by boat, baitboat or some contraption they throw the feed with.

I do coinventional, and I also have an landing mat and rubberized net and I take care of the fish
Dont get fooled by this type of specimen angler's high and mighty. They use lead weights that is designed to break off when the fish takes the hook, thus poluting the water with lead(you really think they care about the fish as they claim?) They use all kinds of unnatural stuff like plastick and polystyrene etc as artificial baits on their hair rigs. So again you think they care about the fishes's health as they claim?

To be part of the specimen club you only need to buy a camo gazebo, camo rod and reels, camo baitboat, camo cap, jacket and undies. Then you are a specimen angler. The other stuff anyone can buy and use, where you want to use the papgooi or specimen method

And if you chose to go the conventional route, dont het confused by the thousands of different dips, floaties etc.
You need less than 5 dips, something sweet, something strong something fruity.
Floaties and baits, you will catch everywhere with a garlic float, maybe get some sweet/fruity flavour mielies for the other hook that will stay on longer.

I can give you a link to another site where I made a treat for the basics for people starting papagooi, its in afrikaans

Wow ... talk about a disgruntled member!
You may be referring to a few people who misunderstand the true meaning of specimen angling, or who have been misinformed.
As for leads that drop off - yes that may be true, but what about the 100's of metres of line and plastic and lead mielie bom holders that the conventional guys also lose cos they make use of 4lb breaking strain line??? At least with our boats we go and retrieve snagged lines and try get line, weights and rigs out of the water instead of just breaking them off.
Don't YOU come with your high and mighty BULL!@#$ because you are misinformed or don't know the true meaning of specimen angling.

@Carpenter ... rant over. Unfortunately there are sometimes high tensions between conventional and specimen anglers. I don't have a problem with either as long as the environment is respected. Conventional will always be the easiest form to start off with, and then possibly move over to specimen is you wish. It also doesn't mean one can't practice both. At the end of the day, it's about conserving the fish and their environment and having respect for your fellow angler - what facet you choose is entirely up to your personal feeling.
 
axle wrote:


Wow ... talk about a disgruntled member!
You may be referring to a few people who misunderstand the true meaning of specimen angling, or who have been misinformed.
As for leads that drop off - yes that may be true, but what about the 100's of metres of line and plastic and lead mielie bom holders that the conventional guys also lose cos they make use of 4lb breaking strain line??? At least with our boats we go and retrieve snagged lines and try get line, weights and rigs out of the water instead of just breaking them off.
Don't YOU come with your high and mighty BULL!@#$ because you are misinformed or don't know the true meaning of specimen angling.

@Carpenter ... rant over. Unfortunately there are sometimes high tensions between conventional and specimen anglers. I don't have a problem with either as long as the environment is respected. Conventional will always be the easiest form to start off with, and then possibly move over to specimen is you wish. It also doesn't mean one can't practice both. At the end of the day, it's about conserving the fish and their environment and having respect for your fellow angler - what facet you choose is entirely up to your personal feeling.[/quote]
Listen genius, you the one that stated that the biggest difference between the two is fish care. Them I point out your BS and then you come with a classic " but what about what the conventional guys do"?
Do you actually realise what you are typing? If your claim to fame is fish care then you will not use weights that fall of, or artificial baits, otherwise you are just the same as the "others".
I havent even started on the braid cutting the fish or the tons of feed the specimen guys throw in to waters disrupting all the fish's natural diets.

So now you are trying to defend yourself buy saying yes we do harm the fish but what about what the other do?

So no Im not disgruntled. You on the other hand are coming with BS and cant take it when i call BS
 

axle

Member
Jean Claude Vaaldamme wrote:
axle wrote:


Wow ... talk about a disgruntled member!
You may be referring to a few people who misunderstand the true meaning of specimen angling, or who have been misinformed.
As for leads that drop off - yes that may be true, but what about the 100's of metres of line and plastic and lead mielie bom holders that the conventional guys also lose cos they make use of 4lb breaking strain line??? At least with our boats we go and retrieve snagged lines and try get line, weights and rigs out of the water instead of just breaking them off.
Don't YOU come with your high and mighty BULL!@#$ because you are misinformed or don't know the true meaning of specimen angling.

@Carpenter ... rant over. Unfortunately there are sometimes high tensions between conventional and specimen anglers. I don't have a problem with either as long as the environment is respected. Conventional will always be the easiest form to start off with, and then possibly move over to specimen is you wish. It also doesn't mean one can't practice both. At the end of the day, it's about conserving the fish and their environment and having respect for your fellow angler - what facet you choose is entirely up to your personal feeling.[/quote]
Listen genius, you the one that stated that the biggest difference between the two is fish care. Them I point out your BS and then you come with a classic " but what about what the conventional guys do"?
Do you actually realise what you are typing? If your claim to fame is fish care then you will not use weights that fall of, or artificial baits, otherwise you are just the same as the "others".
I havent even started on the braid cutting the fish or the tons of feed the specimen guys throw in to waters disrupting all the fish's natural diets.

So now you are trying to defend yourself buy saying yes we do harm the fish but what about what the other do?

So no Im not disgruntled. You on the other hand are coming with BS and cant take it when i call BS[/quote]

:hyst::hyst::hyst:

My last comment to you is ... don't be d00$ be lekker. We're trying to help the guy here, not swing handbags at each other about speci vs conventional.
 
axle wrote:

:hyst::hyst::hyst:

My last comment to you is ... don't be d00$ be lekker. We're trying to help the guy here, not swing handbags at each other about speci vs conventional.[/quote]

Well trying to help is all I did. If he listened to your advice he maybe would feel ashamed his whole life if he chose the conventional route. Now he know the only difference is the rig(many papgooiers have braid on their spools)

And the best help I gave him was how to spot the camo brigade::prty: so he can have a good chuckle with the rest of us when he spot them at the water.
 

axle

Member
Jean Claude Vaaldamme wrote:
axle wrote:

:hyst::hyst::hyst:

My last comment to you is ... don't be d00$ be lekker. We're trying to help the guy here, not swing handbags at each other about speci vs conventional.

Well trying to help is all I did. If he listened to your advice he maybe would feel ashamed his whole life if he chose the conventional route. Now he know the only difference is the rig(many papgooiers have braid on their spools)

And the best help I gave him was how to spot the camo brigade::prty: so he can have a good chuckle with the rest of us when he spot them at the water.[/quote]

You are properly misinformed ... or maybe it's ignorance. Hopefully one day your blinkers will come off and you can experience what true speci anglers are about. This so-called "camo brigade" that you talk about (what does that even mean??? I don't own a single piece of camo) are obviously also misinformed, ignorant or perhaps just moving over to speci. They obviously don't have all the knowledge or information yet. Instead of being a d00$ and laughing at them, why don't you be a REAL man and go and help or give advice or tips instead of sniggering like a spoilt teenager brat and being a keyboard warrior behind your desk.

Each facet has it's advantages and disadvantages - there's no need to comment like you are, because you are only referring to your personal experiences, and not the thousands of other speci anglers out there that are not the "camo brigade" and take angling, fish care and the well-being of the environment as our number 1 priority.
 

Fin-S

Sealiner
Welcome to the OP!

Carpenter007, hope your stay will be enjoyable. With the drought, there are not too many options for the family. Camping wise I would suggest the Breede.

Re specimen / conventional - there seems to be a complete lack of understanding (as well as an outpouring of emotion!)

When the late Dick Walker caught his 44lb fish from Redmire in the UK in 1952, he exclaimed that the problem was not how to catch fish - but how to catch the specimens.
This was further expounded upon Eric Hodgson, founder of the National Association of Specimen Groups, who declared that specimen hunters are pleasure anglers who fish for big fish.

That has typically evolved to more specialised tackle and tactics. But in essence, specimen anglers target big fish, conventional target all fish.
And the term is not limited to carp anglers...so there goes the camo theory.
 

axle

Member
Fin-S wrote:
Welcome to the OP!

Carpenter007, hope your stay will be enjoyable. With the drought, there are not too many options for the family. Camping wise I would suggest the Breede.

Re specimen / conventional - there seems to be a complete lack of understanding (as well as an outpouring of emotion!)

When the late Dick Walker caught his 44lb fish from Redmire in the UK in 1952, he exclaimed that the problem was not how to catch fish - but how to catch the specimens.
This was further expounded upon Eric Hodgson, founder of the National Association of Specimen Groups, who declared that specimen hunters are pleasure anglers who fish for big fish.

That has typically evolved to more specialised tackle and tactics. But in essence, specimen anglers target big fish, conventional target all fish.
And the term is not limited to carp anglers...so there goes the camo theory.

Well said ((goodp_
 
axle wrote:


You are properly misinformed ... or maybe it's ignorance. Hopefully one day your blinkers will come off and you can experience what true speci anglers are about. This so-called "camo brigade" that you talk about (what does that even mean??? I don't own a single piece of camo) are obviously also misinformed, ignorant or perhaps just moving over to speci. They obviously don't have all the knowledge or information yet. Instead of being a d00$ and laughing at them, why don't you be a REAL man and go and help or give advice or tips instead of sniggering like a spoilt teenager brat and being a keyboard warrior behind your desk.

Each facet has it's advantages and disadvantages - there's no need to comment like you are, because you are only referring to your personal experiences, and not the thousands of other speci anglers out there that are not the "camo brigade" and take angling, fish care and the well-being of the environment as our number 1 priority.[/quote]

Listen wisecrack, didnt you previously say that it was your last comment to me? Coming back for seconds from the keyboard warrior?

Surely even for a man of your IQ it cant be to difficult to understand that you were the one starting here, claiming specimen anglers take care of their fish and conventional guys guys throw the fish on rocks and sand? You opened the can of worms and made a mockery of conventional anglers, now you crying? You are the internet Rambo who met his superior.

It feels like dejavu. Your last sentence again. "Take fish care and the wellbeing of the enviroment as our nr 1 priority"

Fish has been caught for hundreds of years with the weight still attached to the rig when you pull the fish out. So why will people who's nr 1 priority is enviroment develop a rig where the lead falls into the water? See BS again

Why would people who's nr1 priority is fishcare and enviroment, use plastic, polystirene,artificial baits? BS again.

I wonder if you even realise that you are excactly this type of specimen angler that the true specimen anglers distance themselfs from. Your first post showed that specimen angling is just a image for you that sets you apart from the rest. When you mentioned baby shoes rig I knew you know nothing about conventional angling. And by the rest of your dribble its obvious you also dont know much about specimen angling.
 

axle

Member
Jean Claude Vaaldamme wrote:
axle wrote:


You are properly misinformed ... or maybe it's ignorance. Hopefully one day your blinkers will come off and you can experience what true speci anglers are about. This so-called "camo brigade" that you talk about (what does that even mean??? I don't own a single piece of camo) are obviously also misinformed, ignorant or perhaps just moving over to speci. They obviously don't have all the knowledge or information yet. Instead of being a d00$ and laughing at them, why don't you be a REAL man and go and help or give advice or tips instead of sniggering like a spoilt teenager brat and being a keyboard warrior behind your desk.

Each facet has it's advantages and disadvantages - there's no need to comment like you are, because you are only referring to your personal experiences, and not the thousands of other speci anglers out there that are not the "camo brigade" and take angling, fish care and the well-being of the environment as our number 1 priority.[/quote]

Listen wisecrack, didnt you previously say that it was your last comment to me? Coming back for seconds from the keyboard warrior?

Surely even for a man of your IQ it cant be to difficult to understand that you were the one starting here, claiming specimen anglers take care of their fish and conventional guys guys throw the fish on rocks and sand? You opened the can of worms and made a mockery of conventional anglers, now you crying? You are the internet Rambo who met his superior.

It feels like dejavu. Your last sentence again. "Take fish care and the wellbeing of the enviroment as our nr 1 priority"

Fish has been caught for hundreds of years with the weight still attached to the rig when you pull the fish out. So why will people who's nr 1 priority is enviroment develop a rig where the lead falls into the water? See BS again

Why would people who's nr1 priority is fishcare and enviroment, use plastic, polystirene,artificial baits? BS again.

I wonder if you even realise that you are excactly this type of specimen angler that the true specimen anglers distance themselfs from. Your first post showed that specimen angling is just a image for you that sets you apart from the rest. When you mentioned baby shoes rig I knew you know nothing about conventional angling. And by the rest of your dribble its obvious you also dont know much about specimen angling.[/quote]

I know I mentioned that was my last comment but I got time today so I thought I'd take you on as you're always in the thick of things when it comes to speci vs conventional.

Again, you're misinformed and clearly know fokol about speci angling and only what you want to see.

I will apologise, you may have understood me incorrectly about the landing mat. I said speci guys use landing mats, and you just assumed that I excluded conventional guys from that. Here I will apologise if I wasn't clear - there are conventional guys who do practice a certain amount of carp care such as using landing mats, knotless nets etc.
As for artificial baits, these aren't swallowed by the fish. The stoppers prevent that from happening most of the time.
As for dropping of leads - not all speci rigs do that. Those rigs are designed to drop the lead if the fish gets snagged. Most guys are wise enough to lock up their drags to prevent fish from being snagged. Yes - a few will come off but again in comparison to the amount of mieliebom holders and line that's broken off by conventional guys it's minimal.
Speci for me is a choice - I like that I can practice the safest possible option that has the least amount damage to the fish and environment. If any true speci angler disagrees with me, I'll take it like a man.
 
Bs again. You said in your first sentence the bif difference between the two is fish care. The you said conventional anglers use 4pd line.

So to show you how little you know. 4pd line? Where do you buy 4pd line. Never in my life seen anyone using that. A very small percentage of conventional anglers, fish competitions. They sometime use 5 or 7pd line when they need to cast far at certain dams. But to put that into perspective, those guys target fish thats less than 1kg, because they going for numbers not weight. So those little fish cant even break chinese line. They also cant afford to looose fish n a comp, so when there is grass or snags, they use spools with stronger line.

As for the majority of social conventional anglers, they fish with cheap rods and reels that you buy with thick line allready on the reels. Very few social anglers will putt 8pd or less line on where they then need to put a leader line on aswell.

So if I can use your words.
Again you are misinformed and clearly know fokol about conventional angling en see onloy what you want to see.

As for the rest of your comment, I notice a pattern of word like mostly, most of the time, a few etc etc. Spindoctor?
 

axle

Member
Jean Claude Vaaldamme wrote:
Bs again. You said in your first sentence the bif difference between the two is fish care. The you said conventional anglers use 4pd line.

So to show you how little you know. 4pd line? Where do you buy 4pd line. Never in my life seen anyone using that. A very small percentage of conventional anglers, fish competitions. They sometime use 5 or 7pd line when they need to cast far at certain dams. But to put that into perspective, those guys target fish thats less than 1kg, because they going for numbers not weight. So those little fish cant even break chinese line. They also cant afford to looose fish n a comp, so when there is grass or snags, they use spools with stronger line.

As for the majority of social conventional anglers, they fish with cheap rods and reels that you buy with thick line allready on the reels. Very few social anglers will putt 8pd or less line on where they then need to put a leader line on aswell.

So if I can use your words.
Again you are misinformed and clearly know fokol about conventional angling en see onloy what you want to see.

As for the rest of your comment, I notice a pattern of word like mostly, most of the time, a few etc etc. Spindoctor?

Hahahaha ... spin doctor - I can say the same for you.
Clearly you're a strong willed person and believe in your version of things as strongly as I do. We're not going anywhere - we can debate for days.

In my opinion , both facets have their place.
I prefer speci as I feel the whole mechanics of speci is safer than conventional. The less impact one has on the fish and environment the better. Clearly JCVD is a seasoned conventional angler and has adopted some speci mechanics into his approach, therefore SOME of his arguments are justified. JCVD I emplore you to also be mindful that the "camo brigade" doesn't represent speci anglers, and the majority of us do not act, behave or do as you say they do. Take those blinkers off pal. We're here for the same reason as you.
 
I dont have my own version, just the truth. If one guy drives 180km/h on the highway and the other 200km/h, they both doing the same thing wrong and the one cant make accusations towards the other.

As for the camo brigade, I like them an dhave no problem with them. The giggles is just at their mindset. I mean camo was developed for bush warfare. So I see no reason for wearing cheap chinese immitation camo, when you stand in the open next to the water. I mean I can spot them from a mile, so can the fish
And further I can maybe understand if a guy targets bass or trout where he cast a few meters in clear water. But what fish will see you 3m under water 100+ m away?
 
Calm down okes hahaha it is just fishing..Don't limit yourself. JC you are pretty much correct so chill bra.. Getting emotional and all hot under the collar won't get you invites from the real specimen guys that come back with 200lb yellowfins in the hatch.. I think specimen carpers are just a little insecure that's all, having spent all that bucks on all that gear and having spent all that time preparing feedsites and rigs, they might be scared to have a pleb show up and outfish them, or be scared of the realization that there is far more fun out there to be had than what is found in just one extremely limited facet!

Let me tell you about when I grew up..I guess I was a specimen angler without even knowing it. I chased those big fish I could see swimming around that I could not get to eat anything..Tried all the fancy stuff from the overseas mags I got at the kiloshop.. Did ok..Big carp were these super smart illusive creatures I thought. Cut to many years later in my 20's in cape town and my mates showed me that to get fish you need to go to where the fish are..and when you do it does really matter what technique you use, except that which works! My most fun in those days was taking a plastic canoe from my club in germiston lake, finding where the HUGE grass carp were basking on the surface in clearings in amoung the reeds, you could only reach them with a little polo kayak. I'd take a flyrod and a little green nymph and drop the "piece of algae" in front of their noses and tweak it a little and watch them inhale it and then all hell would break loose..I never came close to landing one..but you cant describe how much fun..If I was using any bait technique I would not even be aware that fun like that existed.

Ja since I then caught most of the large carp that I've caught in my life on my bass rod, with 20lb braid and with no sinkers or terminal gear but a van der merwe hook and a can of mielies. The hook covered in them and handful out as lokaas. Fishing not more than 10m from the bank, monster fish after monster fish..thats how I was shown to fish for those fish by those who had worked it out, each waterand their fish will be different.

But its all relative, I'd rather be on a rock on a point casting into the green water or be at sea, be it in the blue water, behind the backline or over the reefs. But that said, from catching strepies or mullet for livebait, to sonvissies, to carp to a bass or barbel..I don't really care, I love it all. Fishing is fun if you are a fisher(wo)men, it does really matter what form you are doing or how you are doing so long that you are having fun and not F@#king up someone elses' day, fishing spot or fish stocks.
I still can throw a flyline with a tight loop after all these years of no practice and can now proudly cast a multiplier with ease after so long of being limited to a grinder.. When I get invited to go to the deep, I know my way around a harness and a 80w international or tiagra.. When I first joined this site many moons ago under a different nick, a leervis was my dream catch and I was driving around with a scooter and a flyrod trying to find them with no idea what fishing lay just over the horizon in my future, now years they are a bycatch for me as much as I love em.. and I've caught hundreds. There is much fun to be had when you are not fighting with your peers or getting stuck in a box of someone elses definition. To the OP, go have fun! ;) We go fishing so we don't get as uptight as the guys above haha!
 

harvs

New member
Dr halibut hoffman wrote:
There is much fun to be had when you are not fighting with your peers or getting stuck in a box of someone elses definition. To the OP, go have fun! ;) We go fishing so we don't get as uptight as the guys above haha!
This ^ ((goodp_

@OP: Welcome! Don't get caught up in labels, just fish responsibly (ie. fish and environmental care). Can't say much for WC venues, I've ever only fished Hillcrest Quarries around December and it didn't produce much besides 2 blue kurper.

https://thingstodowithkids.co.za/blog/4-child-friendly-catch-and-release-fishing-spots-cape-town
 
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