Moving to West Coast, Shelly point. New to saltwa

henry.g

New member
Ok lets throw the cat amongst the pigeons....

How about a Butt-Catt. They are solid boats and very stable ( we used one as a dive charter boat).

If you are not going to take a load of commercials with I would suggest a boat with a forward console, more space to walk around if Mr. T. Una takes your hook.

Also, check out what motors the commercials are using. It doesn't help getting a fancy new four stroke with all the bells and whistles when no one can service it for you.

ps boats deteriorate faster when not in use than when used
 

thika

Sealiner
Breads wrote:
Ongelukkig bou hulle nie meer AceCrafts nie! Maar 'n goeie 2dehandse 23 voeter staan vir niks terug nie.
Wees net versigtig om nie te klein te koop nie. Ek sou reken spandeer eerder bietjie ekstra en kyk vir 23 voet +. Ek is baie lief vir my Acecraft (18'6), maar mens is net bietjie beperk met die afstande en toestande waarmee jy gemaklik is om uit te gaan.
My volgende boot is definitief die 26 voet Capecraft - uitleg soos op die foto, sal net die wheelhouse bietjie vorentoe sit om meer spasie agter by die stokke te he.

Lieflike gesig om die commercial Capies met oop krane te sien terugkom!!

Breads,

Het hierdie boot in Gumtree? gesien ek dink...hulle se dis n nuwe Ace Craft 2004? model, wat obviously nie kan wees nie!

Dink R180 000 net so kaal

Klink baie suspicious...julle gedagtes?

Groete
 

Attachments

  • R=W Ace Craft.jpg
    R=W Ace Craft.jpg
    44.2 KB · Views: 567

Bliksem

Senior Member
Magson's adverteer soos volg:

showimage.php


660 Ace Craft
pixel.gif


.. on galvanized double axle trailer with no motors. Includes GPS, fishfinder combo and new flotex carpet.

pixel.gif

ZAR 195,000.00
DATE ADDED. 2008-11-20
 

Arrie D

Senior Member
Stonechamp - Im selling my 16ft Kosi Cat - check the Boating classifieds for the pics -

If you looking for something nice and manageable that you on your own can launch and go and fish - she is the one. I fished with her of Cape point and Dassen for 3 odd years and she id a pleasure. Not a boat to go to Tuna grounds with but lovely for the everyday fishing. Plenty of space and move around. Check her out !
 

Arrie D

Senior Member
Stonechamp - Im selling my 16ft Kosi Cat - check the Boating classifieds for the pics -

If you looking for something nice and manageable that you on your own can launch and go and fish - she is the one. I fished with her of Cape point and Dassen for 3 odd years and she id a pleasure. Not a boat to go to Tuna grounds with but lovely for the everyday fishing. Plenty of space and move around. Check her out !
 

royboy

Sealiner
16' Kosi Cat is another VERY nice boat. Sometimes the easy tow / easy launch is the way to go? On a good day, it's an easy run to the 200m contour from (yup you can put her in the water at the Britannia Bay Slip) - save 6NM each way VS a St Helena Bay launch, and around the 200 contour is the area you will find the Longies. At BB from a launch perspective, just have to time it right... a "bastardo" at lowtide due to shallows.
 

WillemK

New member
Been doing commercial tuna fishing on a 36 foot butt cat out off Hout Bay and if you have time,have a trip on one off these.Cape craft is The boat for cape waters,but try the butt cat.I had no fath in them but 40 myls offshore you start to believe in them,and they can carry a load.This boat are powered by 2x200 4-stroke motors and it runs like a dream
 

miles

Sealiner
Hiya

When asking which boat is the prefered choice, you are going to get MANY conflicting peices of advice. Some will RAVE about monohulls, whilst others will RAVE about catamarans. The reality is that you get good monohulls and you get bad monohulls, similarly, you get good cats and bad cats. The BEST peice of advice is to simply TEST a few boats, ESPECIALLY in rough water, so that you can see how they handle. Almost all boats will handle well in flat sea's, so try and test on a windy day.

Monohulls, like the CapeCraft, Billfish, Acecrafts, etc, all can carry HUGE amounts of weight. If you are a commercial fisherman, you NEED a boat that can carry MASSIVE amounts of weight. A 25' Cape Craft for example will be able to carry MORE weight than a 28' Butt-cat, even though the cat is bigger. When i refer to massive weight carrying capabilities, i'm talking about 2000kg+ of FISH!! I've owned and fished commercially billfish and Capecrafts. VERY sea-worthy boats. They how-ever "BANG' quite a bit when not loaded with weight, need BIG motors to push them and they are VERY wet, when you have a centre-console version. Cabin versions offer GREAT protection from the salt spray and the weather elements, BUT its does take away PLENTY of fishing space.

Cats, like the BUTTCAT's are quite different. They bang ALOT less, due to the big tunnel creating a air cushion between the hulls. They require small motors to push them, which in turns means smaller fuel bills and cheaper initial cost. For example, a 25' Cape Craft needs a minimum of 2x150hp motors, whilst a 28' buttcat can run on 2x90hp motors. The cats also offer more deck space, but they can NOT carry the massive weights that the monohulls can. Since you're limited to 10 fish per person, as a recreational, it doesn't matter, as you'll NEVER be able to overload your boat!! The buttcat range of boats are also very light, which makes for very easy towing. This means you can get away with a smaller tow vehicle. How-ever, THE most important aspect of the butt-cats is that their ENTIRE hull is foam filled. This attribute makes them UNSINKABLE!!

Your biggest criterion is going to be your budget. The bigger your boat, the more expensive it will cost. If you plan on doing tuna fishing, remember, you will need to purchase tackle, and at R5000 per reel and R2000 per harness, it quickly becomes a VERY, VERY expensive excercise. You will also have VERY big fuel bills, anything from 150 to 500 ltrs of fuel on a tuna trip.

There are numerous makes of boats you can check out. I'm a HUGE cat fan, so i'll limit my suggestions to cats:

The supercat range offers the 520 and 620 supercats, which are quite readily available on the second hand market. The 520 is a bit small for tuna, you CAN use it for tuna, BUT you will have to pick your weather days VERY carefully. The 620 supercat is a MUCH better choice, as an all-rounder.

MY choice would be a 21-23' buttcat. They can be powered by as small motors as 2x50's, but most run 2x70 to 2x90's. They are easily towed with a normal 1ton bakkie, but a 4x4 would be better.

If you are looking at PURELY an inshore boat, there are quite a few boats. The durban style cats, like the Kozi cat is a very good choice. Just do a bit of research here and you'll see that HAMMERTIME has a Kozicat and he does exceptionally well with it, both inshore and offshore and LOVES his craft.

Just remember, when it comes to the smaller boats, they ALL will 'bang', as they are simply too short to ride over the wind chop. They will FALL into the 'holes' instead of riding OVER them, like the bigger boats.

 

Just as a side note, you don't mention how much boating experience you have. If you have very limited boating experience, rather first crew with other boats. This way, you will learn the area, get experience and be able to fish on a variety of different boats, allowing you to decide WHICH one is perfect for YOU.



Hope that helps!!

Regards

miles
 

stormchild

Senior Member
Hi.......thats me!!!! I've tried to phone you a couple of times since you came back from C, but seems your phn ......"784.." no changed?
 

miles

Sealiner
Back in Canada again!!

The lack of fish the past season wasn't inspiring. Will be back in SA in 7 weeks time, for the start of the new season.......

PM me your number and i'll give you a call when i get back to SA.
 

Stonechamp

New member
miles,
Great advice, thanks.

I have some fishing experience with charters and friends.
(Houtbay and Simonstown with tuna charters, and some off Perth, Mauritius and of course Sodwana)

Thus I have been in some quite heavy seas but I have zero offshore skipper experience. Do have inshore skippers license for what its worth.

Reading everything I tend to lean towards a 18ft or 19ft compromise, perhaps a Yamaha Explorer 540 or Swift 190?
:ifishin

By the way whats the general opinion of the Admiral 21ft for an all-rounder? Jpeg image attached
 

Attachments

  • Admiral 21ft.jpg
    Admiral 21ft.jpg
    30.2 KB · Views: 515

thika

Sealiner
That boat would be dangerous offshore!

Just compare with this 18ft6 Ace Craft for example

The two pictures say it all
 

Attachments

  • Ace.jpg
    Ace.jpg
    53.7 KB · Views: 513

Stonechamp

New member
Thika,

Another view of the Admiral 21 ft Cat.

What is the main disadvantage?
 

Attachments

  • Admiral 21 ft on trailer.jpg
    Admiral 21 ft on trailer.jpg
    31.6 KB · Views: 503

thika

Sealiner
First rule of sailing is to keep the water out the boat!

Even the best skipper cannot do this with a poorly designed boat

Seaworthiness is really the vessel's survivability and it's behaviour in rough water, i.e. when you put out to sea, the boat should provide the occupants with a high degree of safety and security.

Some design features that help to achieve this are:

- A high bow with reserve buoyancy (chuckies to trawlers all have this)

- Generous freeboard (high gunnels)

- If water DOES come over the bow, it should be shed overboard and not fill the boat

The cabin Ace Craft I used as an example has ALL these attributes...the boat you asked an opinion about has none.

Sure you could run away from bad weather, but as you know sh*t happens!

The Swift would be a better choice in my opinion

 
 

Stonechamp

New member
points taken! Thanks thika.

Does this mean that a FC is safer (and drier) than the CC, assuming a lot of the water can be shed by the closed bow before swamping the boat?
Kosi cat FC vs. kosi cat CC for example?

Hope you're not getting bored with stupid questions?
 

thika

Sealiner
Have no experience with catamarans and don't know Kosi Cats

Hovever, any boat with too much weight forward becomes dangerous in a following sea

Anyone?
 

miles

Sealiner
Hiya

One clear distinction needs to be made. Inshore fishing is VASTLY different from offshore fishing.

When looking for a ALL-ROUND boat, these are some attributes that one needs to consider. How many crew do you plan on taking? A 18-21' CABIN boat will only allow 4 anglers to fish. For inshore work, you will often need to anchor your boat. This is downright DANGEROUS on a full cabin boat, if the sea is choppy. You need a crew member to walk AROUND the cabin, then go to the bow and pull the anchor. VERY, VERY easy to fall overboard. The ideal set-up on a 18-21' boat would be a centre console. This will allow you to fish 6-8 anglers AND pull the anchor easily and more importantly, SAFELY.

Thika, you make some very pertinent points, BUT, some of them are seriously flawed:
- A high bow with reserve buoyancy (chuckies to trawlers all have this)

- If water DOES come over the bow, it should be shed overboard and not fill the boat

 

High bouyancy is critical!! The buttcat has its ENTIRE hull foam filled, as opposed to the bottle filled monohulls. A small experiment, take a glass and fill it with marbles. Now pour water into the glass. When its full, pour that water into another glass so that you can see how much water was in the glass with the marbles. You will be surprised to see how much water there is!! This is EXACTLY what happens to a bottle filled hull. There is so much space between the bottles, that HUGE amounts of water can be retained in the hull, should you hole your hull.

A high bow is only a benefit on a BIG vessel. This is a photo of my previous boat, a 26' Buttcat:

mt3xv6.jpg


316vof8.jpg


 

As you can see, it is a walk-around cabin, which is quite high. I've taken QUITE A FEW swells over the TOP of that cabin!! So, no matter HOW high your bow is, if you get caught in a 30knt+ NW'erly wind with a swell, you WILL take water over the front. The problem is that you will be riding almost straight INTO the swell and wind. That means your speed will be anything from 8-15knts, depending on the swells. When a big swell rears up in front of you, you have to ease back on the throttles, or else you'll jump over the swell and land in the hole behind it, damaging your boat and possibly your crew. When you ease back on the throttles, as soon as you crest the swell, you can apply power again. When you ease back the throttles, the nose of your boat will drop. IF the next swell is very close, it will simply break/wash OVER the boats nose and or cabin!!

NOW, if you take a swell over your cabin, your boat will have quite a bit of water in it. The next swell will simply dump some more water into the boat, also over the cabin. Since you're moving VERY slowly, your scuppers will be UNDER the water, which means it can't clear the water effectively. That is why the commercial guys have MONSTEROUS bilge pumps, with outlet pipes as big as 100mm, just to clear the water. At this point, you are not yet in danger of sinking, BUT, you are in a very dangerous position of CAPSIZING. The only way to clear your deck is to turn the boat around and run with the sea until all the water is gone. If you turn at the wrong moment, and the swell catches you broadside, with all that water on deck, you will most likely capsize.

Similarly, cabin boats having the windows smashed out by the sea or them simply popping out of their frames due to all the banging is actually very common. Now, on a full cabin boat, should your front window pop out in a big NW'erly wind, you're going to have PLENTY of water INSIDE your cabin, which will add weight to the bow, making you take on even MORE water.........

These are extreme examples, we don't fish in this weather conditions, but often the weatherman gets it wrong and we have to endure this type of conditions to get back home.

 

- Generous freeboard (high gunnels)


High gunwhles is a double edged sword. For inshore use, high gunwhales are great, especially if you have children onboard. Offshore though, they can be dangerous. The higher your gunwhales, the more water your boat can retain above its deck!!

There are many superb offshore vessels with low gunwhales. Many of the commercial buttcats have very low gunwhales. Similarly, the 620 supercat also has low gunwhales. Even the durban style surf launching boats have very low gunwhales at the back, allowing for water to flow out easier, should one take a wave over the bow. Think about the old surf launching legend, the ski-vee. They too have very low gunwhales!!

 

My personal opinion is that the monohulls days are numbered. The Cape has always been the stronghold of the monohulls, like Capecraft, billfish, etc. The commercials love them for their weight carrying capabilities. The cats, ESPECIALLY the butt-cat range has done phenominally well in the Cape over the last few years. Over the last three years or so, this is the new boats that were/was/still is at the marina where i moor my boat:

33' Buttcat - Jaguar

33' Buttcat - Dr.Fish

30' Buttcat - Obsession

30' Buttcat - Cabo

28' Buttcat - Sirius

28' Buttcat - Big Fisher 3

28' Buttcat - White Pointer

28' Buttcat - Sea Urchin

28' Buttcat - Ama Feesh

26' Buttcat - Tuna Hunter

26' Buttcat - Ocean Warrior

26' Buttcat - Kingfisher

26' Buttcat - Blue Odysey

23' Buttcat - White Marlin

23' Buttcat - Discovery

That is beside the 4 or 5 new 26' Lee cats, 35' Leecat - Online, the 3x35' Geecats, 900 Cobra cat and the Two Ocean 25 and 32' Magnums cats.

Over the same time period, i know of only ONE 28' Cape Craft - Pinch of Salt, that joined the marina. (Besides the gorgeous 1250 Rodman, which is how-ever in a class of its own!!)

Almost all of the abovementioned boats are used in the offshore tuna fishery, so all these boat owners must surely know something..........

 

Thika, when i get back to Cape Town, i'm going to take you out fishin' on my boat, then you can also see what the fuss is all about!!::S::S

 

Stonechamp, the 21' Admiral is fairly new to the market. I don't know of anyone who owns one, so really can't comment on its performance. I did how-ever have a 21' Hysucat semi-rigid, which also ran on a hydrofoil system, like the admiral 21 and it was a awesome boat!! The only downside was that it was wet, but it carried a load well and ran phenominally well in ANY sea. If that is the style of boat you're looking for, check out: http://www.ratcat.co.za/250.html They are the guys who now build the hysucat style/range of boats.


Also worth checking:

Seacat : http://www.linexyamaha.co.za/products_view.asp?cat=18&subcat=174&subsubcat=293



 
 
Top