Kamassi Butt Cat

I have seen boats get swomped in the surf. Even with false transoms the can clear the water fairly fast.

I'm sure there are 4 bolts holding those motors on. I certainly wouldn't trust only 2 bolts to keep my motors in place.
 
Fish Taxi wrote:
FishExcutnr wrote:
Fish Taxi wrote:
also I think that bottle floatation is better than the foam filled hulls that the Butt offers

what?:fbash
Please refer to Bennies post that he also prefer bottles and foam and not only foam as described in your post as "butt cats rely on the same safe surfboard closed foam concept"

Yip. If you do get a crack in the deck, water seeps in and the longer it's in there the more the foam absorbs and rots. Eventually the boat gets heavier and heavier. Been there done that. On my previous boat I had the manufacturer remove foam behind the transom and fit bottles for water to accumulate.
 

FishExcutnr

Sealiner
so bennie what your saying is your boat is foam filled, but than you leave a space at the back which you use bottles (ahh those things hold coke man, not for boats!) so that any water you get below the deck line from a MANUFACTURING fault , ie, a crack through BOTH your deck and the glass under and water gets into the foam, than it can make its way to the back were you have bungs to allow the water to come out, of course they can also allow water to breach your hull too if one forgets to put them in!

I dont know hey, foam up, seal up and than you can just inspect in the future, if a problem, make two bungs through the transom, although a crack like that should be quite visible. Dont like bottles, sure Dave christie broke his butt cat in half when running back from the deep, but he still came home, huge chunk missing from the sponson. Not sitting there watching all the shitty coke bottles float up around him.

In the cape, in a big north west, ask the cape craft commercials what happens when you run home, eat a swell and end up being waste deep in water in the cabin, happened to Tommy who works at atlantic suzuki!, not fun... open transom on real boats, but of course we dont need to go to these extremes, just pointing out.
 

FishExcutnr

Sealiner
but what i HATE in butt cats is built in fuel tanks with no inspection!!!! so you have a tank that may in the future leak and its just stuck there in the foam. Look at 2 oceans, twister, magsonmarine titan, all of them you can access and remove entire fuel tanks.
 

BFC

Senior Member
benniejordaan wrote:
Fish Taxi wrote:
FishExcutnr wrote:
Fish Taxi wrote:
also I think that bottle floatation is better than the foam filled hulls that the Butt offers

what?:fbash
Please refer to Bennies post that he also prefer bottles and foam and not only foam as described in your post as "butt cats rely on the same safe surfboard closed foam concept"

Yip. If you do get a crack in the deck, water seeps in and the longer it's in there the more the foam absorbs and rots. Eventually the boat gets heavier and heavier. Been there done that. On my previous boat I had the manufacturer remove foam behind the transom and fit bottles for water to accumulate.


I can see you have owned more than 1 boat in your life. Foam has its place , but for plan A, B, C, Water accumulates at the lowest point first -The Stern/Transom.

I also prefer Bottles in the Arse and Foam in the Front.
 

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FishExcutnr

Sealiner
BFC how does that water in the foam in the front get to the back??? each section in your mini titanic looks separated??

so why is the water even getting in there in the first place??

My beliefs on foam have arisen due to listening to a lot of respected guys who have owned +20 boats, build boats and even own outboard and boat fitment shops. Chris teer, Miles, Andrew Bowes,etc , ask any of them and you will get the same answer i have given.

butt ya interesting. i dont like bungs. surfboards dont leak, why should boats?
 

BFC

Senior Member
FishExcutnr wrote:
BFC how does that water in the foam in the front get to the back??? each section in your mini titanic looks separated??

so why is the water even getting in there in the first place??

My beliefs on foam are similar to a lot of respected guys who have owned +20 boats, build boats and even own outboard and boat fitment shops. Chris teer, Miles, Andrew Bowes,etc , ask any of them and you will get the same answer i have given.

butt ya interesting. i dont like bungs. surfboards dont leak, why should boats?

30mm PVC thru structure, to drain hatch and runs out at the bung hole at the back. was not fitted yet at time of the pic. Water cannot come in there now - but in 30 years the next guy wants a new T-top and drills a hole where he is not supposed to,and some how water finds its way in there.

Foam gives a boat awesome rigidness, but after having a foamed boat on a mooring for a year- I see the value of bottles and inspection compartments. 2 places from me there is a 520 supercat and 3 years later one can see it listing to starboard on its mooring because of foam being waterlogged. With Bottles its easier to do maintenence than with foam. Foam is nice when boat is new but over time , can become a nightmare when water logged.
 

FishExcutnr

Sealiner
as a boat builder BFC, you would know far more on the topic so im really interested in what you think on this. The modern polyurethane foam used now, how resistant is it to water absorption, if it was exposed to it? For instance a crack on the deck of a modern boat would be A. Visible. B it would have to pretty big crack to get to the foam,and its not as if the foam will just absorb water, there is no space really?

Is the maintence of bottles easier than foam? You still have to get in there and replace, redo either way?

What happens when you hit a whale or sunfish ( quite common problem in the cape), than with bottles you take on water, foam you don't. I understand you are NOT advocating foam above bottles, just bottles in the rear.

Foam also makes a boat seem to ride better, for instance all the pre 2010 leecats are bottle filled. All modern leecats are foam filled only. Boat rides a little softer and quieter now.

If you were to do the exact same as above with your ace craft with out bottles but a bung through the entire boat, surely any water would come out as well, no need to have a compartment with bottles, could just be foam as well, leave the bung open, at an angle any water that does get in there say 10yrs time will run out?

Will be interesting to see your opinions, especially with new foamed boats, built was coosa transoms, nidacore material, no wood and the latest foam, all sealed in, with a deck than added after, no access point for water , no screws used for keel strips, no engine bolts bellow the deck line. Surely that would have a 30yr life span at least. i dont know, i dont build boats, just like learning about them .
 
I'm 100% with BFC on the foam/bottles. Foam a boat and it will be good for a while but I guarantee you, most boats do start taking on some water eventually. Maybe not a lot, a cup at a time, but it's a cup every time you go out or even every time you wash your boat or it rains on it. The last think you want in your hull is fresh water. Fresh water is what makes everything rot!
 

BFC

Senior Member
FishExcutnr wrote:
as a boat builder BFC, you would know far more on the topic so im really interested in what you think on this. The modern polyurethane foam used now, how resistant is it to water absorption, if it was exposed to it? For instance a crack on the deck of a modern boat would be A. Visible. B it would have to pretty big crack to get to the foam,and its not as if the foam will just absorb water, there is no space really?

Is the maintence of bottles easier than foam? You still have to get in there and replace, redo either way?

What happens when you hit a whale or sunfish ( quite common problem in the cape), than with bottles you take on water, foam you don't. I understand you are NOT advocating foam above bottles, just bottles in the rear.

Foam also makes a boat seem to ride better, for instance all the pre 2010 leecats are bottle filled. All modern leecats are foam filled only. Boat rides a little softer and quieter now.

If you were to do the exact same as above with your ace craft with out bottles but a bung through the entire boat, surely any water would come out as well, no need to have a compartment with bottles, could just be foam as well, leave the bung open, at an angle any water that does get in there say 10yrs time will run out?

Will be interesting to see your opinions, especially with new foamed boats, built was coosa transoms, nidacore material, no wood and the latest foam, all sealed in, with a deck than added after, no access point for water , no screws used for keel strips, no engine bolts bellow the deck line. Surely that would have a 30yr life span at least. i dont know, i dont build boats, just like learning about them .


The Problem is you never know how a boat is going to be used. My 16,6 Coast Craft was used for 20 years in Natal , not a problem , it was filled with bottles. The moment that boat started to verKaaps the fun Started. In Natal it was used and then Trailered, in the Cape it was on a mooring. I Totally re-did the deck in 2009 with "Hydrophobic " foam. Deck Flowcoated - and the ride was going from a Volla to a SL Merc , but in time ( Rain , Spray,) Water moves over the deck and in 1 year the boat has picked up 40 odd kg's. 4% of total weight including motors. I do not know how or where but water gets in there (Fish hatch/Keelstrip/osmosis)dunno. I see a 18ft Mono and a 17ft cat also on moorings and similar problems - maybe a small boat is high risk on a mooring compared to these big 40ft ers, maybe same issues but extra water weight does not affect them so drasticly?

For Moorings/extended use/commercials I would go - Hybrid of Bottles/Foam.

For Leisure use 20-50hrs/year - Only Foam should be OK.

* You will see the foam on my pic is glassed in - big difference between foaming and just putting a deck on top.


All foam , including modern polyurathane foam absorbs some water, some more than others no matter what it says on the side of the can.

I have hit F^%$ Sunfish 2times already and both times a prop was bent - no harm to hull. For Biologics I think Motors/transoms are a greater threat of being damaged than a boat hull.

Coosa, Coosa, Coosa - I know this is the new in fashion material but after laying up 2 transom / structures with this i almost like marine ply a little better. Coosa is nothing more than ground up fibreglass(probably offcuts) bound together by some compound - its glassfibre chipboard with a catchy name.

Guess what I am trying to say is there is no real magic material out there - its how well they are used and crafted within a boat that makes the difference.
 

CrAZy-BuG

Senior Member
I don't really know anything about boats, but reading this, I am asking myself, Why can't you just foam the bottles into the boat? This way you should essentially have the best of both worlds.

Maybe even seal the foam into bottles so that they cannot take on water and then foam all this into the hull?

Please remember that I did start out by saying I know nothing of boats!
 
CrAZy-BuG wrote:
I don't really know anything about boats, but reading this, I am asking myself, Why can't you just foam the bottles into the boat? This way you should essentially have the best of both worlds.

Maybe even seal the foam into bottles so that they cannot take on water and then foam all this into the hull?

Please remember that I did start out by saying I know nothing of boats!
Actually you should put foam peas in the bottles. You cant foam them in place because the idea is that the spaces between the bottles is for water to accumulate and run away. You can also buy moulded bottles that are angular and don't have lids so they don't leak.
 

barryfish

Senior Member
CrAZy-BuG wrote:
I don't really know anything about boats, but reading this, I am asking myself, Why can't you just foam the bottles into the boat? This way you should essentially have the best of both worlds.

Maybe even seal the foam into bottles so that they cannot take on water and then foam all this into the hull?

Please remember that I did start out by saying I know nothing of boats!

The foam will crush the bottles when expanding and make holes for the water to collect in,

my opinion, also not a boat builder - Foam - Make like a Surfboard - no under deck fish hatches / no under deck fuel, no screws through deck ever!
 

barryfish

Senior Member
CrAZy-BuG wrote:
I don't really know anything about boats, but reading this, I am asking myself, Why can't you just foam the bottles into the boat? This way you should essentially have the best of both worlds.

Maybe even seal the foam into bottles so that they cannot take on water and then foam all this into the hull?

Please remember that I did start out by saying I know nothing of boats!

The foam will crush the bottles when expanding and make holes for the water to collect in,

my opinion, also not a boat builder - Foam - Make like a Surfboard - no under deck fish hatches / no under deck fuel, no screws through deck ever!
 

thika

Sealiner
Any boat will start leaking with useage and enough time

More likely through the deck than through the hull I believe

This is not a major problem as long as you can drain it out

Which is why I also prefer bottles

 
 
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