Jigging rods
- Thread starter Drexciya
- Start date
Hey Drex,
There are certainly no hard and fast rules on what you can and can't do, but some guidelines on advice for you.
Jigging rods are generally built to handle the absolute extremes of their materials, construction and design. Fishing incredibly heavy drags on very light powerful rods puts alot of strain on all the components in your tackle.
Rods are generally ( or should be ) built with either in a spin or conventional/overhead design after finding the spine of the rod blank, and bulding according to which way the rod is going to bend whilst fighting a fish, and placing the guides accordingly.
On a spinning rod, the guides will be on the oppposite side on the blank to what they will be on a conventional set up.
So if one were to use an overhead reel on a spinning rod, you would in fact be bending the blank the "wrong way" if I can use that term.... It can work fine, but can also place ALOT of strain on the blank and in a worst case scenario cause breakage in a case that it never would have if the rod was being fished with a spinning reel, or using a dedicated overhead rod.
If you fish slightly more conservatively, and don't put huge pressure on the fish, you shouldn't have any problems, but they could happen.
Another aspect to consider is that guide placement and such are put together on each spinning and conventional version to help them work how they should, and differ alot between the two rods.
The experience of using the "wrong" reel or rod, will greatly reduce your jigging experience.
As I said, it certainly can be done, but in my opinion if you are heavy jigging, for mean nasty fish, I'd get a dedictated oevrhead jigging rod to go with your overhead reel.
Cheers
Nepps
There are certainly no hard and fast rules on what you can and can't do, but some guidelines on advice for you.
Jigging rods are generally built to handle the absolute extremes of their materials, construction and design. Fishing incredibly heavy drags on very light powerful rods puts alot of strain on all the components in your tackle.
Rods are generally ( or should be ) built with either in a spin or conventional/overhead design after finding the spine of the rod blank, and bulding according to which way the rod is going to bend whilst fighting a fish, and placing the guides accordingly.
On a spinning rod, the guides will be on the oppposite side on the blank to what they will be on a conventional set up.
So if one were to use an overhead reel on a spinning rod, you would in fact be bending the blank the "wrong way" if I can use that term.... It can work fine, but can also place ALOT of strain on the blank and in a worst case scenario cause breakage in a case that it never would have if the rod was being fished with a spinning reel, or using a dedicated overhead rod.
If you fish slightly more conservatively, and don't put huge pressure on the fish, you shouldn't have any problems, but they could happen.
Another aspect to consider is that guide placement and such are put together on each spinning and conventional version to help them work how they should, and differ alot between the two rods.
The experience of using the "wrong" reel or rod, will greatly reduce your jigging experience.
As I said, it certainly can be done, but in my opinion if you are heavy jigging, for mean nasty fish, I'd get a dedictated oevrhead jigging rod to go with your overhead reel.
Cheers
Nepps
kitefisher
Sealiner
Drexciya
I know I am treading on very very thin ice here,firstly because I know less than nothing about vertical jigging and secondly because I could be totally out of line in my interpretation of my observation.If you would be so kind as to check out the post under Barbel fishing (scouting in the nursery) ok guys lower the eyebrows LOL you will note in the first photo that I am usinga Shimano Trevalla jigging stick (rated up to 100g) The reel is an Abu 7000 hsn which has roughly a height profile between a Daiwa slosh 30 and Daiwa 40 . Although The fish is probably nowhere near the size that you may target,I am really lifting it out of the water at this moment in time.
I can honestly say that whilst fighting the fish and bearing in mind that the butt is rather long,that I never felt that the line was going to "injure" me when holding the rod on the grip immediately in front of the reel-seat.At no stage does the line touch the blank irrespective of the curve in it.
I do not expect you to use this as guideline because the implications of a braided line running over your hand is obviously much more severe ,and I only share this because there might be some overlapping relevancy.Bear in mind that a reel like a Trini or Torium 20/30 has a much higher profile than said reel in the pics and the likelyhood of line-rubbing near the front hand should be eliminated even further because of this.
Other factors like the rod spine in relation to guide placement, may also influence decision making.
Run and hide from this forum of which I admittedly know nothing about,lol
I am already sorry to have wagered reply here ,but if you look at the third pic in the abovementioned barbel thread.,you will distinctly see how much further away from the blank the line runs when hooking a fish of similar size ,this time on a size 4000 grinder, and similar rod.
I know I am treading on very very thin ice here,firstly because I know less than nothing about vertical jigging and secondly because I could be totally out of line in my interpretation of my observation.If you would be so kind as to check out the post under Barbel fishing (scouting in the nursery) ok guys lower the eyebrows LOL you will note in the first photo that I am usinga Shimano Trevalla jigging stick (rated up to 100g) The reel is an Abu 7000 hsn which has roughly a height profile between a Daiwa slosh 30 and Daiwa 40 . Although The fish is probably nowhere near the size that you may target,I am really lifting it out of the water at this moment in time.
I can honestly say that whilst fighting the fish and bearing in mind that the butt is rather long,that I never felt that the line was going to "injure" me when holding the rod on the grip immediately in front of the reel-seat.At no stage does the line touch the blank irrespective of the curve in it.
I do not expect you to use this as guideline because the implications of a braided line running over your hand is obviously much more severe ,and I only share this because there might be some overlapping relevancy.Bear in mind that a reel like a Trini or Torium 20/30 has a much higher profile than said reel in the pics and the likelyhood of line-rubbing near the front hand should be eliminated even further because of this.
Other factors like the rod spine in relation to guide placement, may also influence decision making.
Run and hide from this forum of which I admittedly know nothing about,lol
I am already sorry to have wagered reply here ,but if you look at the third pic in the abovementioned barbel thread.,you will distinctly see how much further away from the blank the line runs when hooking a fish of similar size ,this time on a size 4000 grinder, and similar rod.
KF - My friend, your knowledge on rod dynamics, and all this angling are ALWAYS spot on mate, so please don't for a second think you have no place posting here!!!
You are a fisherman with vast knowledge to share, and I personally always love reading your well thought out posts and reasons for your opinions and advice... So keep it up!!
You touched ona good point as well, which I should have expanded on in the guide placement topic. You will have blank slap issues whilst using a spinning rod with an overhead reel due to the first guide being placed further from the reel seat on a spinning rod, and this can cause all sorts of drame with braid as KF mentions..
You are a fisherman with vast knowledge to share, and I personally always love reading your well thought out posts and reasons for your opinions and advice... So keep it up!!
You touched ona good point as well, which I should have expanded on in the guide placement topic. You will have blank slap issues whilst using a spinning rod with an overhead reel due to the first guide being placed further from the reel seat on a spinning rod, and this can cause all sorts of drame with braid as KF mentions..
kitefisher
Sealiner
Nepps ,you're too kind, LOL, Sealine rocks.
LOL, Sealine rocks.Muffin Man
Senior Member
Hi guys I just purchased a Blue Rose (Medium) stick 6'6 for my trip to Kenya now in October. I wanted to see how different types of reels felt on the rod I put on one of my Sustain 6000's, which is how I am planning to fish with the rod. I then put one of my trinidad 14's on the rod and almost fully loaded the rod, the line didn't touch the blank which was quite impressive.
I agree with what both Nepps and Kitefisher have said so I will be fishing with it with the grinder. I have had a few rods (composite development blanks) custom built for me over the years and have spent many hours with rodbuilders in their workshops.
I can't remember 100% but seem to recall being told that some blanks have two spines wether these are in inferior blanks or not I do not know. Maybe Nepps or Kitefisher can shed some light on that for me. Cheers Paul (MM)
I agree with what both Nepps and Kitefisher have said so I will be fishing with it with the grinder. I have had a few rods (composite development blanks) custom built for me over the years and have spent many hours with rodbuilders in their workshops.
I can't remember 100% but seem to recall being told that some blanks have two spines wether these are in inferior blanks or not I do not know. Maybe Nepps or Kitefisher can shed some light on that for me. Cheers Paul (MM)
kitefisher
Sealiner
Muffin man ,between spinning at Mazzepa and all these other exotic trips of yours you had better watch out for career-burn-out,lol.
Back to the topic which may be a bit off-topic,As with Flies for fly-fishing,where I know exactly what I want,but leave the actuall tying to somebody who can,I am the same with rods,I know exactly what I want from a rod be it for casting or fishing,yet I dont build them myself.Through the years I have witnessed many builders plying their trade and although I cannot atest to seeing a rod with two spines in the true sense of the word,I can tell you that a lot of them that I tested did not have a very "pronounced" (for lack of a better word) spine.i.e one would have to do the roll test several times before actually locating the most "pronounced" spine.
This could be deemed then to be a blank with "two spines",like you mentioned,as on the roll-test it would not stop/jump at the exact same spot.To remedy this we would apply more pressure on the blank,in other words push down on it more with the hand nearer the butt in a roll-test,and once a certain pressure was placed on said rod, it would eliminate the "false-spine"(yet again no better word),in its entirety.
Just a bit of useless info.
Back to the topic which may be a bit off-topic,As with Flies for fly-fishing,where I know exactly what I want,but leave the actuall tying to somebody who can,I am the same with rods,I know exactly what I want from a rod be it for casting or fishing,yet I dont build them myself.Through the years I have witnessed many builders plying their trade and although I cannot atest to seeing a rod with two spines in the true sense of the word,I can tell you that a lot of them that I tested did not have a very "pronounced" (for lack of a better word) spine.i.e one would have to do the roll test several times before actually locating the most "pronounced" spine.
This could be deemed then to be a blank with "two spines",like you mentioned,as on the roll-test it would not stop/jump at the exact same spot.To remedy this we would apply more pressure on the blank,in other words push down on it more with the hand nearer the butt in a roll-test,and once a certain pressure was placed on said rod, it would eliminate the "false-spine"(yet again no better word),in its entirety.
Just a bit of useless info.
kitefisher
Sealiner
Drex,I see no-one has come back to you yet,.Unfortunately ,like I said initially I am not even qualified as a novice regarding this discipline,yet I am sure that Nepptune or one of the other informed members will get back to you shortly,if not send him a p.m.
benniejordaan
Sealiner
I have recently been looking into what makes a good rod.
Most rods these days are manufactured on a machine that literally plats the twines over a mandrill while rotating. The lay can be varied in angles of the lay to give it different actions. So for example, a strong jigging stick will have these laid at 60 degrees to each other and then it can be varied to give the rod more or less "whip". The lay can also be varied from one end of the blank to the other. Open the angle and you get more flexibility. Other composites are also added to change the nature of a rod as well, add more carbon and the rod get stiffer but also more brittle. Even glass is sometimes laid with the carbon to make it more flexible.
Hand crafted blanks:
Although there is this thing about a "handcrafted rod", in reality they are very inconsistent. and are not very good as mass produced rods.
These are made by taking a sheet of material, cutting it to size and wrapping it around the mandrill. It is then compressed or rolled between rollers and after a few more processes it is ground on a grinding wheel until uniform. There is an overlap where the 2 ends meet which although ground, this is the "spine" of the rod. The grinding process can aid in giving the rod more or less action as wanted.
Ideally this is a proper custom rod. handmade and ground to suit the angler. A once off masterpiece.
Now the point is, that most and by most I mean 95% of rods do not have this "back bone" because they are for the most part manufactured on the spiral wrapping type machines. Top class surf HMG rods achieve this "back bone" by making the blanks slightly oval in shape. But it weakens is from side loading.
After all that crap, and I left plenty info out. It depends on the maker of the rod. If it is a off the shelf model there should be no problem. Except for the eye positions and other points already mentioned.
Most rods these days are manufactured on a machine that literally plats the twines over a mandrill while rotating. The lay can be varied in angles of the lay to give it different actions. So for example, a strong jigging stick will have these laid at 60 degrees to each other and then it can be varied to give the rod more or less "whip". The lay can also be varied from one end of the blank to the other. Open the angle and you get more flexibility. Other composites are also added to change the nature of a rod as well, add more carbon and the rod get stiffer but also more brittle. Even glass is sometimes laid with the carbon to make it more flexible.
Hand crafted blanks:
Although there is this thing about a "handcrafted rod", in reality they are very inconsistent. and are not very good as mass produced rods.
These are made by taking a sheet of material, cutting it to size and wrapping it around the mandrill. It is then compressed or rolled between rollers and after a few more processes it is ground on a grinding wheel until uniform. There is an overlap where the 2 ends meet which although ground, this is the "spine" of the rod. The grinding process can aid in giving the rod more or less action as wanted.
Ideally this is a proper custom rod. handmade and ground to suit the angler. A once off masterpiece.
Now the point is, that most and by most I mean 95% of rods do not have this "back bone" because they are for the most part manufactured on the spiral wrapping type machines. Top class surf HMG rods achieve this "back bone" by making the blanks slightly oval in shape. But it weakens is from side loading.
After all that crap, and I left plenty info out. It depends on the maker of the rod. If it is a off the shelf model there should be no problem. Except for the eye positions and other points already mentioned.
hey drex,
have a look at the shimano beastmaster rods -they go for around R600 for the overhead models. excelent value for money. i have used the med-heavy & heavy & they are awesome rods.
basil manning have also been running a special on the shimano jigwrex rods where all models are R1500. these are basically their second tier of rods behind the top of the range 'blue rose'. i havn't used one of these but they look really good as well.
..or save up a little more & spoil yourself & go speak to neptune about the jigstar rods.
good luck
have a look at the shimano beastmaster rods -they go for around R600 for the overhead models. excelent value for money. i have used the med-heavy & heavy & they are awesome rods.
basil manning have also been running a special on the shimano jigwrex rods where all models are R1500. these are basically their second tier of rods behind the top of the range 'blue rose'. i havn't used one of these but they look really good as well.
..or save up a little more & spoil yourself & go speak to neptune about the jigstar rods.
good luck
Hey Sparky,
I had a Beastmaster extra heavy, stupid thing broke, probably cause my angle was way to high when I pulled it, but yeah. The only problem with the Beastmaster is the weight of the rod, to heavy. I went to Bassil Manning and wanted to buy a Jigrwex, but nothing in overhead. They are also 2 piece rods, break just above the butt handle, which I heard is a commen thing with Shimano rods. Jigstar...mmm, thats the only way to go
I had a Beastmaster extra heavy, stupid thing broke, probably cause my angle was way to high when I pulled it, but yeah. The only problem with the Beastmaster is the weight of the rod, to heavy. I went to Bassil Manning and wanted to buy a Jigrwex, but nothing in overhead. They are also 2 piece rods, break just above the butt handle, which I heard is a commen thing with Shimano rods. Jigstar...mmm, thats the only way to go
Drexciya wrote:
Drex - Unfortunately none of the JigStar's are available at R1500.... they start at R 3000.00, but when you feel them and fish with them, you will see why!
What size/model reel are you wanting to fish overhead with, maybe I can recommend you which one of our JigStar rods would best suit your purposes... And perhaps organise for you to see and feel one yourself.
Cheers
Nepps
Jigstar...mmm, thats the only way to go
Drex - Unfortunately none of the JigStar's are available at R1500.... they start at R 3000.00, but when you feel them and fish with them, you will see why!
What size/model reel are you wanting to fish overhead with, maybe I can recommend you which one of our JigStar rods would best suit your purposes... And perhaps organise for you to see and feel one yourself.
Cheers
Nepps
Drex,
Too right bro, definitely worth every cent bro, and actually a bargain at the price! ;-)
Right you are that Torium is a bullet proof reel, and has tamed some incredible fish. I would suggest if you can, getting hold of Whaler ( Darius ) and organising yourself some Carbontex washers for it, will extened the life of your drag, and boost the perfromance a long way, especially when fishing heavier drag settings that jigging requires.
I'd recommend the 250 or 350 JigStar rods for the Torium 20... rods will handle jigs from 180 grams right up to 400 grams... and be able to handle more drag than the reel will by a long way! ;-)
Cheers
Nepps
Too right bro, definitely worth every cent bro, and actually a bargain at the price! ;-)
Right you are that Torium is a bullet proof reel, and has tamed some incredible fish. I would suggest if you can, getting hold of Whaler ( Darius ) and organising yourself some Carbontex washers for it, will extened the life of your drag, and boost the perfromance a long way, especially when fishing heavier drag settings that jigging requires.
I'd recommend the 250 or 350 JigStar rods for the Torium 20... rods will handle jigs from 180 grams right up to 400 grams... and be able to handle more drag than the reel will by a long way! ;-)
Cheers
Nepps