Ive been to Rhenosterkop twice now, the last time

[Jake1]

Does anybody know the real reason for the bass fishing thats down/not like it was before at Rustdewinter dam. It can only be

-a lack of fodder fish ?

-too many bass removed ?

-pollution ?

-nets ?

If we can get the answer to this we will know what to do and not to do at Rhenosterkop.

I think if Government can see that bass fisherman are actively involved in culling of bass they will be less prone to force everyone to remove bass

 

[sustan]

RDW=over fished especially during spawn when all the carp anglers hammer the bass along the northern bank

bass have been in rhino head for a long time. If you speak to the artlure guys they will tell you that 10-20 years ago they were catching 2kg bass in there already.

kurper are killed by gill nets not bass. we have also pulled out gill nets to find plenty big kurper about 2kg

so many people have now started fishing RH and because the fishing is so good thats now all of a sudden wrong. iv fished some farm dams in KZN recently which are just as easy to catch bass because of no fishing preasure.

 

[nutt]

Hi Guys

Um Ryan, Black bass were originally indigenous only to the eastern third of North America and were also stocked by man so that today they are spread accross the entire continent. They go by more names than you can imagine and are the most widely spread sport fish in the world, more so than the Rainbow or Brown trout. Here are a couple of names and counntries in which they are Found and many of them more sophisticated, oh and of course first world than ours.   

Common names in the English language are largemouth bass, bass, American black bass, bayou bass, bigmouth bass, black bass, bucket mouth, chub, green bass, green trout, lake bass, large-mouth bass, largemouth, largemouth black bass, line side, marsh bass, northern largemouth bass, Oswego bass, slough bass, southern largemouth, trout, and welchman. Other common names include achiga (Portuguese), achigan (French), achigan à grande bouche (French), bas dehanbozorg (Persian), bass wielkgebowy (Polish), biban cu gura mare (Rumanian), black-bass à grande bouche (French), bol'sherotyi chernyi okun' (Russian), buraku basu (Japanese), fekete sügér (Hungarian), forelbaars (Dutch), forellenbarsch (German), huro (Spanish), isobassi (Finnish), khorshid mahi baleh kuchak (Persian), lakseabbor (Norwegian), lobina negra (Spanish), okounek pstruhový (Czech), Okuchibasu (Japanese), ostracka (Czech), ostracka lososovitá (Slovak), perca americana (Spanish), perche d'amérique (French), perche noire (French), perche truite (French), perche truitée (French), persico trota (Italian), stormundet black bass (Danish), stormundet ørredaborre (Danish), tam suy lo ue (Cantonese), zwarte baars (Dutch), and öringabborre (Swedish).

You are correct in saying that Gill nets dont catch bass, hell they might even be used as structure by the bass, but man they kill off all the food that the bass live on so in effect they might as well catch bass too. This is why in the good old days you went straight to jail if you were caught gill netting.

Gentlemen I have roughly 500k invested in my sport which is bass fishing, I'm going to do as much to promote the sport as well as the well being of the resource we love so much and key to this is LIVE RELEASE.

Cheers

Nutt.

 

 

[nutt]

Jake1 wrote:

Does anybody know the real reason for the bass fishing thats down/not like it was before at Rustdewinter dam. It can only be

-a lack of fodder fish ?

-too many bass removed ?

-pollution ?

-nets ?

If we can get the answer to this we will know what to do and not to do at Rhenosterkop.

I think if Government can see that bass fisherman are actively involved in culling of bass they will be less prone to force everyone to remove bass

Hi Jake 1

Its in part a cyclical, over fishing problem but Rusdewinter Dam as many other dams in the same area have a serious pollution problem stemming from the Minning activities in their catchment areas, this unfortunately will continue as the government feels that the Minning is more important as it creates employment and earns foregin income. However this problem is not confined to SA, I was at Lake Mead / Hoover Dam Navada in March, which is fed by amongst others the grat colorado river and they are experiencing have the same problem there. Granted global warming is playing a significant roll but the problem is the same.

With regards to the government or more accurately the Dept of Nature conservation, they do not actively campaign the removal of bass out of any system where they are not a threat to indemic species. They do however promote the culling of fish where they are a threat, like Westhou just outside of Amsterdam in Umpumhalanga. They shocked this dam for 18 months at a huge cost, only to find the largest spawn they had ever seen the next spawning season (In effect they made the problem worse than it was in the first place). The state universtiy of Alabama has one of the largest freshwater fisheries / Marine Biology Depts in the USA and they have stated on many occasions that you do more dammage to a system by trying to remove bass from a system when they have been there for 2 years than you did by putting them in in the first place (Some how our rocket scientists thought the could reinvent the wheel)

Hope this answers a few of those questions, RDW still fishes very well, you just have to work a little harder to catch them thats all (This is after all what makes crave the weekend fishing trips)

Cheers

 

Nutt.

 

[Jake1]

Nutt do you know what is the specific threat at Westhou dam (just outside of Amsterdam.)

Jake1

 

[nutt]

Hi Jake 1

Yes its the Red Fin Barb (a small fish 3 inches long), it was thought to be extinct but was rediscovered in Umpumhalanga. The river that feeds Westhou (Cant recall the name) is an easterly flowing river (Thus they wanted to prevent the spread of Bass in this river system, but in causing such a huge spawn they actually promoted it). They have subsiquently also found healthy populations of this Red Fin in rivers and tributaries in the Borkes Luck region, so no problems there.

 

Cheers

Nutt 

 

[Jake1]

 Did they actually shock them with electricity or what? Do you think what they did to the Bass leads to a Bigger spawn?

 

[100% African]

its called a slot limit. basically fish between x and y size or weight are removed so that the populations has bigger fish. in the states and dams which are managed, slot limits do wonders.

 

[nutt]

Jake1 wrote:

 Did they actually shock them with electricity or what? Do you think what they did to the Bass leads to a Bigger spawn?

Hi Jake 1

Yes they use electric probes and the electricute a given area, the fish float to the top and they net them. They thought that the eradicated all the carp, bass, barbel etc. They didnt get all the bass as this is impossible and then nature just filled a void, no predation on the spawn beds which means a high hatch rate and the rest is history.

 

Cheers

 

Nutt 

 

[Jake1]

nutt wrote:

Jake1 wrote:

 Did they actually shock them with electricity or what? Do you think what they did to the Bass leads to a Bigger spawn?

Hi Jake 1

Yes they use electric probes and the electricute a given area, the fish float to the top and they net them. They thought that the eradicated all the carp, bass, barbel etc. They didnt get all the bass as this is impossible and then nature just filled a void, no predation on the spawn beds which means a high hatch rate and the rest is history.

 

Cheers

 

Nutt 

Sounds like culling by fisherman is the only option then to control bass numbers and possibly ensure bigger bass.

 

[nutt]

Jake1 wrote:

nutt wrote:

Jake1 wrote:

 Did they actually shock them with electricity or what? Do you think what they did to the Bass leads to a Bigger spawn?

Hi Jake 1

Yes they use electric probes and the electricute a given area, the fish float to the top and they net them. They thought that the eradicated all the carp, bass, barbel etc. They didnt get all the bass as this is impossible and then nature just filled a void, no predation on the spawn beds which means a high hatch rate and the rest is history.

 

Cheers

 

Nutt 

Sounds like culling by fisherman is the only option then to control bass numbers and possibly ensure bigger bass.

 Hi Jake 1

Yes but culling and restocking other ailing fisheries and not eating or destroying the fish.

Cheers

 

Nutt

 

[Jake1]

I agree with restocking but only in Private waters that does not have access to  rivers.

 

[Ryan]

Hi,

Sorry did not realise that was not in N.America - guess my geography must really SUCK!!! ;fbash

Thanks for the update on the names - I was familiar with most of them the European and russian names are somewhat new but of little relevance to me.

I think you have misinterpreted what I have written. I am into "Sustainable fishing" and if this requires bringing in slot culling to ensure this then I am all for it.

500k is a relativly small investment is so far as bass fishing goes I am in already for well over 1.5bar but hey why do we do it - because we all share a mutual love for the sport.


Anyways great debate



nutt wrote:
[

quote]Hi Guys

Um Ryan, Black bass were originally indigenous only to the eastern third of North America and were also stocked by man so that today they are spread accross the entire continent. They go by more names than you can imagine and are the most widely spread sport fish in the world, more so than the Rainbow or Brown trout. Here are a couple of names and counntries in which they are Found and many of them more sophisticated, oh and of course first world than ours.   

Common names in the English language are largemouth bass, bass, American black bass, bayou bass, bigmouth bass, black bass, bucket mouth, chub, green bass, green trout, lake bass, large-mouth bass, largemouth, largemouth black bass, line side, marsh bass, northern largemouth bass, Oswego bass, slough bass, southern largemouth, trout, and welchman. Other common names include achiga (Portuguese), achigan (French), achigan à grande bouche (French), bas dehanbozorg (Persian), bass wielkgebowy (Polish), biban cu gura mare (Rumanian), black-bass à grande bouche (French), bol'sherotyi chernyi okun' (Russian), buraku basu (Japanese), fekete sügér (Hungarian), forelbaars (Dutch), forellenbarsch (German), huro (Spanish), isobassi (Finnish), khorshid mahi baleh kuchak (Persian), lakseabbor (Norwegian), lobina negra (Spanish), okounek pstruhový (Czech), Okuchibasu (Japanese), ostracka (Czech), ostracka lososovitá (Slovak), perca americana (Spanish), perche d'amérique (French), perche noire (French), perche truite (French), perche truitée (French), persico trota (Italian), stormundet black bass (Danish), stormundet ørredaborre (Danish), tam suy lo ue (Cantonese), zwarte baars (Dutch), and öringabborre (Swedish).

You are correct in saying that Gill nets dont catch bass, hell they might even be used as structure by the bass, but man they kill off all the food that the bass live on so in effect they might as well catch bass too. This is why in the good old days you went straight to jail if you were caught gill netting.

Gentlemen I have roughly 500k invested in my sport which is bass fishing, I'm going to do as much to promote the sport as well as the well being of the resource we love so much and key to this is LIVE RELEASE.

Cheers

Nutt.

 

[/quote]

 

[Ryan]

Stocking of waters should be done ressponsbly bass are not indegenous to South Africa - by putting them in new waters at any given whim is inviting Nature conservation to come down even harder on bass fisherman and that could lead to further legislation and more Laws.....

Please think before you make such statements.

Again I reitterate

"RESPONSIBLE and SUSTAINABLE fishing practices"

 

[Ryan]

I am following this thread but I am sitting in the Serengeti in N.Tanzania (East Africa) comms are a little slow here....

 

[Jake1]

Ryan you working there?

 

[Droomvanger]

I am concerned about the species diversity in RDW. It have take a serious plunge this year. Years ago we caught Dwarf Tigers and papermouth yellows in RDW. They are gone. Other species numbers have also declined. I agree we must be very carefull stocking all dams with bass. It appears to me the Floridas are much more adaptable than the Northern strain. The Northern strain was mostly found in very specific habitats, eg near the dam wall and have often not survive especially where fishing pressures were too heavy, eg Harties in the old days were stocked with thousands of northerns and they did not make it, but the Floridas flourish. This appears not to the case with floridas, which you find in any habitat. It is also interesting that you will often find bass, barbel and carps in waters usually too polluted for other indigenous species to survive, eg Vaal Barage where the other species dissappeared? My 2c.

 

[nutt]

Hi Ryan

No I dont think you understood what I was saying and that is that Bass were not found accross the entire North American continent like they are today and were also stocked into other dams on that continent and specifically in the USA, Mexico and even Cuba. I dont campaign bass being killed whilst culling and this is the point I was trying to make.

Anyhow at the end of the day as long as everyone is trying to promote the sport and the resource then thats cool. I would say that Dams like Rhenosterkop (wich are over populated FOR THE MOMENT)should be left alone for the begginers to improve their skills and become addicted (Maybe host a couple of open tournaments there to encourage newcommers)and the other myriad of venues which dont fish as well be left to the guys who have aquired skills to hone these skills (by trying to catch fish which may seem elusive, i.e. Witbank has +6KG bass in it but no one fishes it because they dont catch a fish every second cast). 

With regards to the investment (Which for Bass addicts becomes irrelevent, no matter what they spend). I hope 1,5 bar was over a lifetime bud or else someone smoked you for your rig thats on your profile. Mines just for a puddle jumper and some sticks, but this is also not a urinating comp either, merely a discussion on how to promote a sport and its resources.

Cheers

Nutt

 

 

 

[Ryan]

Nutt - No problem bru.
1.5bar is not just in the boat it is all the stuff that goes with it - Tackle, Vehicle to pull the boat etc etc etc. Fish for the Proteas and see what kitt (Tracksuits, Blazers etc etc cost).

So what you are syaing is fine we leave Renosterkop for beginners and when it is well and truely stuffed the we start on a new Venue - Sorry no matter how much you want to promote the sport this just makes little sense for sustainable fishing.

So what do you suggest we do when culling bass and that we donot stock other bodies with these bass according to Legislation and law it is illegal to transport "LIVE" fish without a permit and there is no movement of Alein invasive species.

Finally what about fishing for some of our local indegenous species such as Yellows, Barbel and Kurper species these too are graeat sport fish - bass are just really easy to catch hence people like catching them.

I really think you have little to worry about with Bass in SA it is a well known and well publicised sport - it is just that more responsibility needs to be taken when fishing venues and moving fish.

PS. I was fully aware that bass were from the east coast (N. America) and were introduced but thanks for the update.

 

[Ryan]

Jake I am heavily involved with conservation and Safari industry in Africa. We have lost the battle in South Africa to Alein invasive species (Botanical seems like we are losing the battle agains invasive fish species too) so I am trying to assist in countries where the problem is still manageable Tanzania being one of them.
I am up here on work and Play - it is an awesome place nice to still see wilderness so pristine.