I heard about some locals in Clanwilliam who claim

Bycatch

Senior Member
Circular debate.

Yellows are still caught on artificial lures in the main dam! The problem is the dam itself, without it we wouldn't have this discussion. The fact remains that no matter who does what, the exotics are here to stay and need to either be managed or allow the system to balance itself out naturally. With the lifting of the wall due to happen shortly, what do you okes think will happen then.......?
 

gt40

Senior Member
firstly lifting dam wall is a disaster waiting to happen.
carp has been in clan for 5-7 years now. with raising the wall they will have increased spawning and feeding grounds. evidence of this is Theewaterskloof.

as for catfish in the western cape. the evidence is bold and starring all in the face. misverstand, voelvlei, breede and many farm dams and dams too follow here. kwaggas and pootjies are to follow. fresh management will become the only way to secure the future of indigenous fish.

bass has been with indigenous fish from very early with minimal effects on indigenous fish.

you can not make statements without evidence, of what you as angler think goes on underneath water. i have been involved with numerous farmers where dams been empty to remove alien fish where indigenous fish have been plenty full back before catfish been introduce there and no gone totally.
 

The Owner

Senior Member
Just want to state 3 things

First of all I acknowledge that bass are here to stay and I myself have had fun catching them. But I do believe that better management is required as they have done and are currently doing damage in various systems (I advise you not to let me start listing venues where they have had a negative influence:fbash)

Secondly I am firmly against the belief that a system will balance itself out naturally. This belief encourages anglers look away while indigenous fish are dying out. We as humans placed bass and other fish in the systems where they did not occur without researching the impact, the least we can do is try to minimize their impact.

Thirdly the Cape Piscotorial Society, Yellowfish Working Group and most ecologists are no fans of bass in the Cape systems...especially Smallmouth bass. Smallmouth bass has had a huge influence on most redvins, cape kurper and clan yellows, sandfish and sawvin. Most of these venues have healthy waters so pollution can not be blamed. Also the argument that a system will recover by it self implies that fish will adapt to survive in any situation...if this is true why can these fish not adapt to dams being built in the river? The two principles contradict one another.

I have always been fascinated with Clan yellows, its my dream to one day catch one. Yet I have asked the Cape Piscotorial Society, which is actively involved in the conservation of clan yellows, how their numbers are looking and was answered that their numbers are declining at a rapid rate and they themselves are worried about these fishes numbers. Very sad to hear that a yellow that can reach up to 14kg and is the most beautiful in my opinion of all yellows might be lost.

Lastly I believe that fish that are only found in a specific area should receive priority ito conservation eg clan yellow which is only found in SA in a few rivers in few numbers. Also the yellow is named the CLanwilliam Yellowfish, its logical that Clan dam and Clan river is suppose to have healthy populations of them. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that here is something wrong here.

Most indigenous fish have already been threatend or endangered even before barbel was introduced (Read Bycatch's pdf). The fish that will feel the impact of barbel the most is bass as was clearly shown at Misverstand dam.

Answer to all of this is to allocate dams to both species, and please don't give the smallest stream to the indigenous fish and all the big dams and rivers to bass, carp etc (cause this in just wrong). If this can be implemented our local fish will strive and bass anglers can enjoy their fish.
 

HennieS

Senior Member
Good comments Owner, there is a few things you mention that I think is key! The most important one being Management. The management of our waters is extremely poor and is getting worse by the day.

As to Clan William dam, it is a dam that should never have been build! It was build slap bang in the middle of the yellow breeding grounds. In this case I believe business was put in front of Nature Conservation as the farmers needed water for their crops.

As a lot of people mention the bass is now so wide spread that it is impossible to get rid of it, small mouth is certainly more detrimental to our waters than large mouth. Conservation should seriously look at how to control this. But that is wishful thinking! I know they outlawed movement of bass but how do you police this? That is the difficult part!

This debate can carry on forever but if Government is not serious about conservation it will not happen! There is one company that spill chemicals into the Vaal EVERY year and nothing happens to them, you look at the shareholders they connected, sad I know but that is real live! nature takes a back seat to HUMAN needs and greed!!
 

The Owner

Senior Member
Agreed Hennie. I once debated this subject with a few of my bass buds. The best proposal to come to the table was that each interested party (orgs of all angling facets and businesses) pays an equal amount to finance an indepth research project on the effect of alien fish on indigenous fish and systems. An objective expert should lead this project and results should be thoroughly publicised. Next step will be to draw up action plans and implement them. Think this is a viable option. The future of our waters as well as species (alien and indigenous) is in the hands of us anglers. Government will let everything die before they say "oops, too late"
 

Bycatch

Senior Member
There is of course another more practical solution to alleviate the plight of threatened indigenous species.....BREED them and do so properly with money redirected from wasteful projects.

We will never eradicate the "alien" invasion so why not swing the odds back in the favour of indigenous species by fortifying their number with fingerlings big enough not to be chowed?
 

Koper

Senior Member
Bycatch wrote:
There is of course another more practical solution to alleviate the plight of threatened indigenous species.....BREED them and do so properly with money redirected from wasteful projects.

We will never eradicate the "alien" invasion so why not swing the odds back in the favour of indigenous species by fortifying their number with fingerlings big enough not to be chowed?
As far as I know there was a yellowfish breeding farm establish just below the dam wall and road in the middle eighties, wonder what happened to that?
 

The Owner

Senior Member
I don't believe its a viable option. Stocking can only work if the next gen have a good chance to survive. Bigger stocked one's will grow bigger and eventually die while their fry is eaten. Not a long term solution. Better solution is dedicate some rivers to yellows and redvins and some to bass. Next step is to put in a HUGE effort to catch/net as many bass out of that system and relocate them to dedicated bass venue. Then maybe stock the yellow/redvin river and see what happens.
 

visteroris

New member
aquadementia wrote:
Just so you know it is illegal to spearfish in freshwater in SA. Hopefully the barbel sort the bass and carp out and maybe the indigenous species will do a bit better
NONSENCE,IS ILLEGAL TO SPEARFISH IN A NATURERESERVE BUT YOU CAN GET A PERMIT JUST LIKE A FISHING LICENCE ,AND SPEARFISH IN ANY DAM AS LONG SA ITS NOT A NATURERESERVE,WE HAVE BEEN DOING FRESHWATER SPEAR FISHING FOR AGES IN MAPUMALANGA(DONET KNOW ABOUT OTHER PROVINCES)
 

Bycatch

Senior Member
The Owner wrote:
I don't believe its a viable option. Stocking can only work if the next gen have a good chance to survive. Bigger stocked one's will grow bigger and eventually die while their fry is eaten. Not a long term solution. Better solution is dedicate some rivers to yellows and redvins and some to bass. Next step is to put in a HUGE effort to catch/net as many bass out of that system and relocate them to dedicated bass venue. Then maybe stock the yellow/redvin river and see what happens.

But surely, the fact that they still exist must mean that there is a viable breeding biomass in the system? I'm talking about fortifying this.
Are we a first world country.....ok, let's assume we are. Why are we then one of the few that don't have a practical approach to enhancing fisheries for the benefit of certain species and certain users?
 

HennieS

Senior Member
Bycatch
There is a lot of successful breeding programs in the USA, in fact they even breed saltwater fish extensively the problem in this country is firstly the finances to do something like that and secondly the appetite to implement and sustain that. You require a Government that understand the importance and have a real interest in our eco system. I have worked all over Africa and there is not one African country that understands the affect of pollution or over fishing! Frankly they don't care because the attitude is people must survive not thinking that resources will disappear or the future

The US is doing well at sustaining fish numbers but they also face some serious problems with alien species, and they are a proper first world country with a solid Conservation strategy. So I do not have much hope for our countries fisheries, even if we start now I think the damage is already to big to reverse. Maybe I am wrong and I dearly hope I am!

Hence my attitude of lets manage the existing damage as well as we can!
 

BoikieLouw

New member
What is left of the Breeding Station established in 1974...

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HennieS

Senior Member
Wow that is sad! I bet if you find out they stopped funding the project and everything just started falling apart!
 

jmgravenor

Sealiner
BoikieLouw wrote:
I heard about some locals in Clanwilliam who claims he caught a Barbel in the Clanwilliam Dam.I wondered about it and went diving with a speargun in Clanwilliam Dam a few days ago around Rondegat and what I saw amazed me.I was diving when I saw a large gray,blackish thing on the bottem.I first thought maybe a pipe or something? But when I came closer I reaised it was a Barbel and it shot away leaving a only dust behind.I did a bit of research on the internet and it looks like some people have caught Barbel in the dam.A huge problem I think.:alien

The Olifants also fills up the dam...Tonnes of barbel in there. Naturally they would appear into the dam. There might have been barbel in the dam for yonks. Bronzie fishing there is still bloody good though!
 

Go fish

New member
Watch this space .......... give it 3 years and we'll see how good the fishing is then.

Look at Voelvlei ....
 

jmgravenor

Sealiner
True unfortunately the barbel and carp do contribute to this...however...Clanwilliam is a very rocky dam and this explains the clarity of the water. Any Silt/muddy dams such as Kwaggas and Brandvlei are caused by those bottom feeders(Carp/Barbel). Wind is also a factor.

If the dam wall of clanwilliam is not raised, the water clarity will be clear for a long time to come as the bottom feeders can't stir up the mud/silt. The clarity of the water helps bass to locate their enemies/predators from a long way away and this helps with their survival.

Other really muddy dams...Voelvlei...have gone crap as it is a muddy dam...bottom feeders were introduced...they multiplied big time, made the water clarity K@K. The bass vision was obscured by the crap water clarity...the predator comes in and it's too late for the bass to see them. Bam. They get swallowed. They're especially vulnerable when on nests.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Just my knowledge of it.
 

Go fish

New member
True, but smallies are much more aggresive than largies and when on nests and they tend to protect the nesting sites better.

When hoover mouth pulls up the smallie challenges him and gets chomped or injured. Breede is a good example of this, the smallies have taken an absolute hammering even in the clearer water.   
 

jmgravenor

Sealiner
Very true. I have fished dams for a couple of years that used to be plenty of smallies. Now they've almost gone because of barbel attacking them while they're on nests.

The dams such as Kwaggas and Brandvlei though...even Theewaters...The smallies in Brandvlei and Kwaggas seem to be thriving and have successfully spawned. The largies are still there but where they are...they sure are few and far between...

Theewaters...the largies are massive there and seem to be coping despite the water clarity. The smallies also seem to be coping despite just being introduced to the dam. Heard a guy who caught a healthy 1.8 kilo smallie the other day...
 
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