I have a question...

[EugeneC]

I see the thread about the undersize steenbras is now locked, I had contemplated posting this question on that thread, but I was too late.

I believe the angler got the reaction he deserved, there's no doubt about that. However...

**Disclaimer**
I am seriously not trying to stir the pot or step on toes here, but I honestly would like to know:

If you browse the offshore angling section right here on Sealine, photos abound of anglers proudly displaying double figure catches of dorado, tuna etc. Invariably the fish are relatively big - 10kg+ fish is not that uncommon offshore when you know how and where.

Now I fully understand that none of these photos portray undersize fish, bag limits exceeded or any other form of transgression of the law (so clearly very different to the steenbras fiasco), but I do wonder, how come it's so easily acceptable to anglers to have so many fish taken on such a regular basis?

Sealine has a large enough membership that there must be some of the more seasoned anglers old enough to remember the days before restrictions on steenbras because they were plentiful...surely the same logic should apply to fish that are currently not considered to be under threat (ie. dorado for example)?

What does a recreational angler do with say 16 dorado ranging between 5 - 12kg a piece and a couple of 20kg tuna thrown in for good measure? Even if you are 3 or 4 guys on the boat, that's still way over 100kg of fish?

I know I'm sure to get some negative reactions from the offshore guys here, so I will repeat again: not trying to cause trouble (I only have 60 odd posts after all lol!), but genuinely wondering if I am missing an important point?

 

[JVW]

EugeneC wrote:

I see the thread about the undersize steenbras is now locked, I had contemplated posting this question on that thread, but I was too late.

I believe the angler got the reaction he deserved, there's no doubt about that. However...

**Disclaimer**
I am seriously not trying to stir the pot or step on toes here, but I honestly would like to know:

If you browse the offshore angling section right here on Sealine, photos abound of anglers proudly displaying double figure catches of dorado, tuna etc. Invariably the fish are relatively big - 10kg+ fish is not that uncommon offshore when you know how and where.

Now I fully understand that none of these photos portray undersize fish, bag limits exceeded or any other form of transgression of the law (so clearly very different to the steenbras fiasco), but I do wonder, how come it's so easily acceptable to anglers to have so many fish taken on such a regular basis?

Sealine has a large enough membership that there must be some of the more seasoned anglers old enough to remember the days before restrictions on steenbras because they were plentiful...surely the same logic should apply to fish that are currently not considered to be under threat (ie. dorado for example)?

What does a recreational angler do with say 16 dorado ranging between 5 - 12kg a piece and a couple of 20kg tuna thrown in for good measure? Even if you are 3 or 4 guys on the boat, that's still way over 100kg of fish?

I know I'm sure to get some negative reactions from the offshore guys here, so I will repeat again: not trying to cause trouble (I only have 60 odd posts after all lol!), but genuinely wondering if I am missing an important point?

Ek like die post-ek's landlocked en het een Kob Desember gevang.Het die bootmanne nie 'n voordeel nie?

 

[aquadementia]

a 6kg dorado is about 6 months old..

Beardsley (1971) reported that a wild caught juvenile kept in captivity grew from one to 35 lb in one
year. Schekter (1983) recorded a growth rate of4.3 kg
(from 0.7 to about 5 kg) in 30 days. In Barbados, dolphin may reach lengths of over 80 em in 5.5 months
and over one meter in less than one year (Oxenford
and Hunte, 1986). In Hawaii, they also attain a length
ofover one meter at the end ofthe first year(Uchiyama
et al., 1986). By applying the length-weight regression
ofRose and Hassler (1968) to these data, it would correspond to a mass of about 8 kg in one year.

whereas a 6kg steenbras is probably around 6-10 YEARS old

You cannot compare them, they are not in the same league in terms of growth rates, distribution and susceptibility to pollution

 

[tuna]

i personally eat a lot of fish so 6 fish or so if its legal will last me and a few mates only a few days with a braai or 2.
Then again most of my big edibles go back.
In my opinion use it dont abuse it.
Ons almal ken die verskil tussen reg en verkeerd

 

[EugeneC]

Hi Aquadementia,

I have a lot of respect for your broad knowledge of fish and sea life and I get your point 100%. Perhaps the dorado was not the best example, but it is certainly not the only example. Catches of couta, tuna, bonito etc. are also not uncommon off the boats and the same thinking applies.

Although doubtlessly you have your facts 100% straight and I for one wouldn't question that at all, I am questioning the underlying principle of taking so much fish.

 

[JVW]

Soos ek sê-ek's 'n leek.That's Dorado-what about the rest.And the strike rate between surf and off shore-does that compare?

 

[aquadementia]

thanks EugeneC.
MOST of your true pelagics (oceanic species) are very fast growers - they have to be to survive. Couta (king mackerel) are not oceanic and also relatively slow growers.

yellowfin tuna - 16 - 17kg in 2 years
wahoo - 38kg in 9 years
couta - 40kg in 18 years
white steenbras - 10kg in 21 years

Also note that white steenbras are estuarine dependant - pollution, netting and any anglers with a handline can whipe them out

So going on the above info, 10 x 16 - 17kg yft are equivalent to 1 x 10kg white steenbras, in terms of years to replace (assuming the tuna are replaced one after another)

anyway, that's my PERSONAL measuring stick when I decide what to keep. In terms of a specific fish's size, I also prefer keeping specimens that have had a chance to spawn already. Our recreational regulations are nowhere near what they should be in that regard, but enforcing 1m size limit on kob would cause riots and turn everybody into poachers

 

[grootvis]

EugeneC wrote:

I see the thread about the undersize steenbras is now locked, I had contemplated posting this question on that thread, but I was too late.

I believe the angler got the reaction he deserved, there's no doubt about that. However...

**Disclaimer**
I am seriously not trying to stir the pot or step on toes here, but I honestly would like to know:

If you browse the offshore angling section right here on Sealine, photos abound of anglers proudly displaying double figure catches of dorado, tuna etc. Invariably the fish are relatively big - 10kg+ fish is not that uncommon offshore when you know how and where.

Now I fully understand that none of these photos portray undersize fish, bag limits exceeded or any other form of transgression of the law (so clearly very different to the steenbras fiasco), but I do wonder, how come it's so easily acceptable to anglers to have so many fish taken on such a regular basis?

Sealine has a large enough membership that there must be some of the more seasoned anglers old enough to remember the days before restrictions on steenbras because they were plentiful...surely the same logic should apply to fish that are currently not considered to be under threat (ie. dorado for example)?

What does a recreational angler do with say 16 dorado ranging between 5 - 12kg a piece and a couple of 20kg tuna thrown in for good measure? Even if you are 3 or 4 guys on the boat, that's still way over 100kg of fish?

I know I'm sure to get some negative reactions from the offshore guys here, so I will repeat again: not trying to cause trouble (I only have 60 odd posts after all lol!), but genuinely wondering if I am missing an important point?

They have R1000 fuel bill as opposed to R50 fuel bill. Thats the truth. Most not all, boat owners will try and recover fuel costs by doing you know what...illegally or legally.

 

[EugeneC]

Aquadementia, I said I don't want to start a fight and I was wondering if I'm missing the point - you have certainly given me a different perspective; although it still bothers me when I see pics like that, I accept your reasoning, so thanks for your input.

Grootvis, honestly I kind of expected the fuel bill to come up at some point, which I think is a pathetic excuse (heard that one before from an offshore angler), but I have no proof of any boat anglers breaking the law so I will rather avoid the conversation on anglers selling their catch.

Thanks for the input everyone, Aquadementia answered my question far more eloquently than I'd expected anyone could.

 

[aquadementia]

Ja fuel bill isn't an excuse. If you cant afford your boat, you shouldn't have one! (THAT may just start a fight )

I agree Eugene, seeing 100kg of dead fish isnt lekker. But to me, it's relative to the age and growth of that species.

I had a debate on facebook the other day with some guys who got very upset with one guy who kept 45 carp (up to around 5kg). 45 carp is BUGGER-ALL when considering a single female can spawn up to a MILLION eggs in a season. Those fish will be replaced 1000 times over in the next spawn. I gave the guy who kept the carp a thumbs up, at least its 45 less carp for our indigenous species to compete with (although I doubt that was his motivation)

edit: oh crap I see you're a carp angler! me too, dont worry they're lekker to catch and they arent going anywhere any time soon

 

[EugeneC]

Ha ha! Like the edit! Not to worry, I don't only fish for carp, I was just a little lazy filling out my profile and consider my PB carp to be one of my most special catches.

I was a hardcore specimen angler for many years (still am at heart I guess), but never really got into the carp conservation / eradication debate, it's a losing pitch in my view...they're alien, but they're not going anywhere in a hurry as you mentioned, so the specimen guys shouldn't worry too much about their sport and the conservation minded guys can eradicate to their hearts' content, there's space for both in this case.

PS. nice fish

 

[aquadementia]

Thanks, my current pb on lure. Best thing about it is that I got the hookup and fight on video, as well as the 8 other carp we got that day. Made the gopro totally worth the expense

 

[ziyaadb]

post the vids would love to see. we dont have enough south afri
can fish vids

 

[aquadementia]

Here's a link to the original thread. Ive also got a youtube channel with a few more vids and all my reports can be found in my gallery in the off the hook section. http://sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=88078&forum_id=71

 

[boepens]

no carp should be returned to the water
my opinion sorry

 

[boepens]

no carp should be returned to the water
my opinion sorry

 

[Stapies]

The thing that I would think upset me most is not really people catching quota and keeping but rather certain people who believe that "As dit reen moet jy skep..." .

It is the ones keeping more than they should. A certain time of year the Bonnies are quite thick in Mosselbay. I have seen some oats go out there and then sommer catch over 130+ fish between 2 or 3 guys!!! And then most of them end up in a tackle shop to be sold to shark anglers... Now I dont agree with this. I have seen pictures that will make your stomach turn.

I for one understand some fish(pelagic) breed and grow quick so some fish can be fished harder than others. But one thing I have learned on sealine is that just because fish are concentrated in an area doesnt mean that the whole country and world is over stocked... SO the "as dit reen moet jy skep" mentality is a moerse no to me!!!

But on this note I cant wait to get out on the deep again for some proper tail and tuna hunting!!!

 

[bronxie]

Boep,the camo brigade are planning your funeral already bud.

Eugene, ripping the ring out of it will always be prevalent in most forms of angling. Blatant disregard for the next person and sustainability of our fish stocks.

My uncle worked for Parks Board for over 40 years and removing gill nets etc was part of his job. However he had empathy for the locals which was their only food source and lively hood. No amount of educating, arresting will sway an opinion of an empty stomach.

Always a grey area between greed and survival.

My 2c

 

[EugeneC]

Stapies, that's my point also. To be frank I consider taking home 10's of dorado on a single trip also "skep as dit reen", but in fairness I can't argue with Aquadementia's point about fish growth rates.

Bronxie, I think you will find there is rarely a correlation between over indulging and the need for survival. Exceptions exist, no doubt, but as a pretty average angler I routinely outfish the homeless locals who fish to survive on the Garden Route, I do after all have comparitively state-of-the-art tackle and techniques.

Boepens, as I understand it in strict legal terms no angler is allowed to return a carp, but ironically many more anglers return carp than the many sea fish species under pressure.

 

[Enigma]

I go shore fishing around 60-80 days a year and return 90% of the fish I catch.

I go fishing offshore two or 3 times a year. In those trips I often catch triple the weight of fish I catch in total off the shore. I don't return that high a percentage and I eat all I keep. I pay a hefty fuel and or charter bill and I eat a lot of fish for the rest of the year (Bonnie obviously become shark bait)

The answer Aqua gave is very true and to illustrate even more so.... look at the table below for

Blacktail – Diplodus sargus capensis

1.5kg fish is estimated to be around 30 years old: