Hi there guys i really hope someone with more k

Catch 22

Senior Member
IAN FISHERMAN wrote:
I have a question to ask. Say I buy an old Licensed trailer. Take the Vin No. ,Plates, reg certificate and put it on my boat trailer. Is there any way they will know that I have done this? I have heard they take a photo of the trailer at some point. who take the picture and when?
Just make sure the weight data is simular as they will pick up the weight difference quickly if you say fit a venters licence on a 20 plus foot buttcat
 

DoubleD

New member
Hi Baldrick

I note with particular interest the discussion about trailers, roadworthies, cof's and licenses. I am new on the site but have a few comments to make to all those eager beavers that responded.

It is easy to always lay the blame on someone else, in this case the Police, testing station or Licensing Dept. I do agree with and share the majority's sentiments regarding the general state of non delivery and the associated arrogance of the so-called Officials that are useless and incompetent.
However not one of us should be allowed to transgress the National Laws that are in place, and yes you can all argue that the laws in this country only apply to certain people and only certain elements at best are ever enforced.  Be that as it may for the Motoring section of the law, there is an Act called The National Road Traffic Act 93 of 1996. This Act has all the Acts and Regulations pertaining to all aspects of vehicles, in any form, the policing of citizens, the registration and licensing of vehicles, cross border transportation and the likes. One of the most important and perhaps unknown FACTS about this Act is that is forms part of the Criminal Procedures Act (CPA) for which offences you can go to jail AND in addition get yourself a CRIMINAL RECORD!!! That is not a joke but a reality!
For your particular situation I have the following advice, and please, you can do whatever you want with it, that is up to you. All I am doing is giving you the facts!
To 'arrange' to have a so called trailer builder accept the instruction from you is, besides being extremely unethical, totally against the law. If this case was taken to the police and a charge laid, the 'builder' could face either a stiff fine or even the fine plus a visit to the nearest prison for fraud! On top of this, and if he is really a REGISTERED builder, he would also face another problem being that the Provincial Authority can revoke his license and cancel his NaTIS number effectively erasing him from the system. To become a REGISTERED 'MIB' (Manufacturer, Importer or Builder, you need to comply with a very long list of requirements according to the same NRTA 93 of 1996. One of these is that you will have to be approved by the SABS and the DTI. Should you find yourself in the unfortunate position described above, you will be 'deleted' from their data base, the result is self explanatory.
The next important issue is that, whilst this ‘builder’ is being charged criminally, the law will automatically force the police to charge you at the same time, also for fraud and perhaps bribery. The ripple effect only becomes known after the fact.
If you do not have the papers for the trailer and have legitimately purchased said trailer from whomever you say, all you really have to do is go to the nearest police station and make an affidavit with all the facts and as much information as possible. This document and your proof of purchase will suffice when it comes to proof of ownership. From her you take this affidavit and your proof of purchase to your nearest Licensing authority where you request a form called an RPI, an acronym for Request for Police Introduction. The next step is to take the trailer to the SAPS Vehicle Theft Branch closest to you and show all the documentation. Once they have done all that you hand them the completed form. Once that is done you take that document, now stamped by the SAPS, back to the authority where you obtained the form from and they process it, after which you get another form from them called an RPC, an acronym for Request for Police Clearance. This document now has to go back to the same SAPS branch that did the RPI. The SAPS then load the details again and issue you with a stamped and signed document which has, yet again got to go back to the authority. The next step is to have the trailer weighed and a roadworthy certificate issued by an authorized testing station. You now are at the point of getting the trailer licensed. With all this documentation you hand it in at the authority and after processing all the information, you are issued with a license disk. Once that is done you have to obtain a license plate from a SABS registered vendor.
By now you are saying that it is all not worth it but I can assure you that it is and you then can, at any time sell your trailer to whomever you please without fear of prosecution.
Another important point I picked up from your forum was where one of the people said that no matter what, you are always liable for the outstanding license fees. This is a gross misconception as the following is the true version of the policy and procedure applicable to transfer of ownership and selling of vehicles.
The NRTA 93 of 1996 in regulation 53 (3) (a), (b), (c) & (d) very clearly state that the CURRENT Title Holder of a vehicle, that is the person or institution that has financed or is financing the vehicle, HAS to, not IF they want to, complete the required blue form and get the OWNER to sign it and provide a copy of their Identity Document, after which the CURRENT Title Holder has to submit these documents to the authority to have the changes done into the Owner’s name and hand them the changed document. Effectively this means that the BANKS have to also pay for the transaction as they have to hand the document to you in your name as the Title Holder AND Owner. For the past 40 years the banks have been ripping us off by handing you a signed document with the ID copy of their Proxy and we, like a bunch of stupid sheep, have merrily obliged. All the while the banks were laughing all the way to the bank, pardon the pun. The Banking Council has also responded by saying ‘our banking RULES say that we do it that way as we have for however many years’ what they seem to not comprehend is the FACT that NO banking RULE can ever override a National LAW!
If you are interested I can give more information on the way vehicles may be sold, correctly that is. Hope I have not stirred up a hornet’s nest.
 

thika

Sealiner
Hi DD,

Welcome to Sealine

An amazing post

The "officials" I doubt know the system as you explained it...molasses...guys take shortcuts!

Regards

Banks stink

Gotta live in a cave in some dessert! No other way   :(

 
 

DoubleD

New member
Hi Thika

Thanks for the welcome and glad someone enjoyed it. just to clarify one point as, after reading the posting, it seems a little vague.

When you buy a vehicle from someone that has, for whatever reason/s, not licensed the vehicle for any period of time, lets say 8 years, and decides to sell it thinking that you, the buyer, will bear the brunt of all outstanding fees, that person is in for a serious wake up call.

If the takes place, all you as the buyer have to do is, record the date of purchase on the document you hand in to the licensing authority. By doing this it is recorded that you, as the new owner, are liable for any license fees from that date.

the shocker for the seller is that he/she merrily goes on with their life thinking that they have cunningly managed to evade the 8 years licensing fees. Reality hits home when they go to renew a current vehicle that they have. Suddenly they are hit with 8 years outstanding license fees PLUS PENALTIES for the vehicle sold BEFORE they can obtain the license disc for their current vehicle.

You can argue with them as much as you like but they will always refer you to the NRTA 93 of 1996 which clearly states that YOU have to hand in the change of ownership documents, NOT THE BUYER!. By doing this YOU ensure that no penalties can crop up later.

Have a great day!
 

DoubleD

New member
Is it really worth the risk? Take some time and refer to y response regarding the licensing of vehicles.

Doing what you are suggesting is fraud, no matter which way you look at it.

Is it worth getting a criminal record AND the possibility of spending ANY time in a prison, I think not.

Personally I like the privacy of my own body and the moment you enter a prison you become fair game and very fresh meat!!

Do it the right way, you will never regret it. :SSS
 

DoubleD

New member
You are right, IT IS the right thing to do.

The only difference is that it is not a criminal offense not to pay your TV license!

I guess you don't pay yours?
 

leroyd

New member
Actually I do pay my TV license,  but yes, I would probably go the "trailer builder"route to license an unlicenced trailer.

I do agree we should follow the law, but this is just too ridiculous to follow, if it comes to weeks of effort, taking off work, going form one place to the other etc, to try to get a trailor licenced vs taking my trailor to a trailor manufacturor, giving him some money and having it registered as a newly built one - I'll take option 2 thank you.

If that makes me a criminal, then I would guess most of us on this forum have the potential to be criminals.

 

 
 

Royden

Senior Member
If one decides to go the route of using and old "Venter Trailers" (Illegal), reg papers and disc ect, there is a part where they say descrition, on most, for Venters and Karets there will be a Box Body typed in, but a boat trailer will have a Skelital description typed in. This will give away that there is something fishy going on. I spoke to a Roadworthy/Reg company today who told me for R3000 he will sort out the problem and register in my name with all certificates to go with, and on top of it all, no need to bring the trailer down!! I just wanted to do the legal route!
 

DoubleD

New member
I just cannot fathom why you, or anyone else for that matter, would not see that a used trailer, however old it may be, that is registered as a new one by a so-called builder is legal and morally correct.

It is not a new build and any so-called builder that does that obviously has no scruples.

I am not a goody-two-shoes kind of person, I also do things wrong and make mistakes as I go along, but I always do my best to stay within the confines of the law.

The only real point I am trying to make is that the greater majority of people in this country have absolutely no idea that the NRTA (Traffic Act) forms part of the CPA (Criminal Procedures Act) Effectively this means that you could go to jail or even get a criminal record for any traffic offense. That is also why a fine NEVER ever lapses like a civil claim has a 3 year moratorium and after 3 years have lapsed you cannot claim unless you gave notice within the e year timeframe.

The fine will remain against your name forever unless someone decides to scrap old outstanding fines at a particular authority.

I also agree that the whole Act is contradictory is many was. A good example would be that a vehicle that was correctly registered and licensed in 1965 where the OWNER, on the registration diocument, hass not changed to date, WILL, irrespective whether the license fees were kept up to date, STILL BE ROADWORTHY. A roadworthy is only required if OWNERSHIP, not Titleholder, changes after 1 year from first registration.

How stupid is that?!
 

leroyd

New member
Hi DoubleD

I take your point about it being a "criminal offence" and the risks attached to it, I also do see the moral aspects of registering an old trailer as new, especially if you are going to sell it "as new", but if it's for your own use, and if you ever sell it and you tell the person, that it's a x years old trailer that was registered later -  then I don't really see any problem with that - the only thing you have done "wrong" then , is to circumnavigate the process, which in this case is flawed.

I'm not sure if this can be done, but can you not get a "trailor builder" to register it as a rebuild, then strictly speaking, that is honest and legal,  plus then its' not as if you're claiming it's new.

The problem with the law as it stands, is now basically, if people have trailors that are not registered, then they are going to use them anyway, so they're breaking the law in any case, so to get the trailor registered by "other" means, is probably a lesser "evil" than just continuing to use it with "false" plates etc.

Anyway, stay well , good fishing, and if you're ever in CPT, come have a beer with me, we can have some more "philosophical" discussions .

Ps - I assume you do know what images your forum name conjures in my mind every time I read it.  

:)

 

 

 
 

DoubleD

New member
Hi Leroy

lets leave it at that. All I actually wanted to say was that, no matter which way you look at it, it IS better and safer to do things the right way, that's all.

I will definitely look you up next time I am in the Cape Town region.

Oh and Yes I do know what images your mind conjures up each time you look at my name.

All the best and regards
 

Simen

Sealiner
badballie wrote:
I had the same problem as you, when I bought a bike trailer. The plate with the VIN no fell off at some stage prior to me byuing it, so we could not identify it for roadworthy. My mechanic had the punches needed and as we had the registration papers, we just pounched the number on the draw bar and it was sorted.

If you have the VIN, havew it punched in, it will be the easiest route. You will be liable for the outstanding lisence fees dating back who knows how long + penalty fees ( double the yearly lisence fees )

Alternatively, get someone that builds trailers to give you invoice for the parts, will cost you a few bob, and thenm register as newly built.

You will need go to your lisence office for the RFP, then police clearance- where they will issue and stamp a VIN, then weighbridge, then roadworthy, then back to lisence office for regtistering - take a weeks leave for this -
best advice and easiest to do-BUT before you walk in and pay ---FIRST find out what are the fees outstanding, you could pay more than what the trailer is worth if the guy did not renew  the license for a couple of years.

Half the trailers on the road today are running with duplicate license plated and licenses.
 

DoubleD

New member
For those interested....if you have bought or acquired a trailer from someone that is not around any longer, be it deceased or untraceable, all you have to do is be honest and put the actual date YOU bought or acquired the trailer on the NCO, Effectively this means that you will only be liable for any license fees from that day forward.

The person in who's name it is still registered will be liable for any outstanding license fees when they want to re-license their current vehicle/s.

THAT IS THE LAW! NRTA 93 of 1996 in Regulation 53 (3) (a) (b) (c) & (d) PERIOD!!!

Further to that Regulation 53 A states that NO person may sell a vehicle on behalf of another person. This means that ONLY the registered owner, ON PAPER,is allowed to sell you the item!!! Be very careful and remember that the NRTS 93 0f 1996 forms part of the CPA Criminal Procedures Act!

Have a great day!
 

OvaR8ed

Sealiner
baldrick wrote:
Hi there guys,

Happy news!!

Found a local trailer builder and he is sorting the whole thing for me. From the VIN number to roadworthy and down to licence and new number plate. Dropped the trailer off yesterday and should be able to pick it up in about a week.

Thanks to everyone who gave me input  - the hassle is finally sorted. ::S

How much did it cost? I need to do this soon, so can I please have his number as well?
 

swifty

New member
hi

Looks like you know your stuff. I bought a boat on a trailer.  but the guy I bought it from is one of the many owners of the boat and trailer.  I had to adapt the trailer a bit to get the boat to fit properly.  So do I just get the boat and trailer checked to see if they have been stolen.  Trailer also has no vin number, seems like it was home built, but looks pretty roadworthy.

cheers
Grant
 

The Noob

New member
Hi Baldrick

Can you please provide me with the details of guy. I'm in the same boat than you and would love to get my trailer sorted

Thanks
 
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