Hi   I hope somebody can help. We have

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Ryan

Sealiner
On the contrary I have no problem with these articles - they are here to better educate us the less informed about some very serious enviromental issues pertaining to our sport.

GTZA thanks for your response on these matters I have learned much from reading them.

Loamsie - well as they say opposition makes for fair comment and balances the tables outsomewhat.

The goal here is to try and establish a middle road where both anglers and the enviroment enter a win win situation.

Bass are bad for our systems as are carp. Or our own barbel for systems where they donot naturally occur. I have seen firsthand Dwarf tigers that were thick in Rust de Winter have been wiped out by the bass and it has been several years since they were last caught there.

I agree we are here to have a good time but on the same time we are also here to educate ourselves.

Keep them articles comming boys........

My 3c Worth:temp:
 
L

Loams

Sealiner
Ryan, I agree with you. I want to be educated as much as possible. In fact, I actually involve myself privately in conservation matters all over SA, but more in terms of mammals than fish.... Which I know is perhaps a bit two-faced on my behalf :?

Anyway, GTZA, I will be reading up on the links you posted, thank you very much for that.
 
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Hendre

Senior Member
I have also been following this thread and find it very informing, educating as well as entertaining at times.

GTZA- will I be correct in assuming that this thread is the most that Government (indirectly you) and the bass community (through one or two people) have liaised with each other directly?

I know Government have posted in the Gazette and other media channels and maybe a few anglers picked up on that, but myself as a recreational angler would not know when or where to look at these postings. I know very well that this is no excuse and not a reason to be ignorant to law.

I guess what I am getting at is that this is a wonderful base for communication between the two bodies with people in the know who can voice their opinions, give constructive critisism and also give insight to the not- so- knowledgeable in matters that concern all.

Loams and GTZA- is there even still a chance of getting government to change law or taking the bass community's suggestions in consideration? If so, then others who are part of organized fishing and are reading this thread should get involved more formally.

If not- I still enjoy this thread and learning a lot, so keep the posts coming!
 
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GTZA

Banned
Damn, there goes my navelgazing! Now don't start me on Himalayan Tahrs or Fallow Deer grazing along the Vaal, or the effects of Nyala browse lines and cross-bred Blue/Black Wildebeest. or even the real baddies such as the common domestic cat which will probably cause the extinction of our indigenous black-footed cat.

When I get all het up about invasives, it does not mean that I do not enjoy bass fishing. I do, and hope to do so for a long time to come. There certainly is a place for them in our recreational passtimes and our natural systems (in some places) can even accommodate them. But if I am forced to make a choice between bass and redfin minnow, bass will have to go.

And that is precisely what we need to bring across in SA. Catch-and-release of bass is a conservation measure in USA but in SA conservation is catch-and-release of largemouth yellows. If we do not harvest some bass from our natural systems, they will overrun and we may then be forced to take the eradication route. Nobody wants that surely?
 
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GTZA

Banned
Hendre, first of all I do not represent govt. in this forum but I am here as an angler member purely, who incidentally also work for govt. in this field.

There has been some liaison between govt. and the angling fraternity prior to this but I do not know to what extent. I do know that at some stage an expert group was convened and on which organized angling was also represented. I tried to get the angling bodies seriously involved as the legislation offers wonderful opportunity for self-regulation as an alternative to "policing".

There certainly still is an opportunity to have the angling fraternity interests taken care of in the law but this will require a dedicated approach by organized angling, individual voices won't help. I know the officials involved in the roll-out will be grateful for cooperative support but I also know an obstructionist or confrontational approach will be as effective as trawling a popper in the toilet bowl.
 
R

Ryan

Sealiner
GTZA wrote: 
I also know an obstructionist or confrontational approach will be as effective as trawling a popper in the toilet bowl.
Click to expand...
 

Classic -  Where do you come up with sayings like that......................ROFL
 
R

Ryan

Sealiner
MAybe your avatar represents one of your loggerheads that you foulhooked...................:headb
 
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GTZA

Banned
Well... when nothing else wants to come up to play, one has to think of something.

Perhaps I should try a spinnerbait, could hook into a turdpole...?
 
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robfisher

Senior Member
[color=#006600]GTZA[/color] wrote:
Well, back to contemplating my navel I guess...
Click to expand...

GTZA please don’t stop… it’s rare to find this kind of info in a succinct format and I appreciate the info… I find it really interesting that you say that the issue of aliens WILL happen… personally I very much doubt it but this is based on current government actions and failure to handle issues like this… but it’s just my 2c worth with no real knowledge of the real issues… I have only been bass fishing for two years.

We have been discussion the culling of small bass in Inanda dam for sometime locally because there seems to be proliferation of small fish… but no one really knows for sure and it’s just theories and gut feel… what we need is a real study by a biologist… but until that time the debate will rage with no real answer..

So don’t stop posting the info please!
 
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robfisher

Senior Member
Wow 5 or 6 postings while I was typing my 2c worth… I guess this stirs some emotions in us bass fisherman! So put down the fluff please GTZA and tell us some more about the Himalayan Tahrs! Oh yes and don’t be ugly to the domestic cats… I’m a cat man… I have two Bengals (cross between Asian wild leopard cat and the domestic cat) but I guess that will send you to the drinks cabinet as well? :)


;)
 
J

Johanvc

Sealiner
GTZA thanks for the info. Some interesting reading.
Maybe ESA should contact government as they are for innovate, educate and conservate
 
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GTZA

Banned
Robfisher, I am pretty confident that the invasive management thing will happen. It is gaining international momentum and as this happens, governments are forced to respond. Just look at the whole climate change thing. The only questions are when, how and to what extent. In the SA situation I know for a fact that measures such as a total ban on the 100 worst invader list of IUCN (of which bass is one) and restricting sales of property on which invasives occur, have been seriously considered. And this is the sort of thing that can be expected if we leave the invasive issue to them what see everything through the blue haze of an eucalyptus tree. If this were to happen, you wouldn't be able to swop your Bass Seeker with 115hp Yammie for a pack of smokes.

I think you guys would be wise to harvest some smaller bass from Inanda. Ideally, you would want a base survey and constant monitoring but these days nobody does anything for free anymore. At the beginning of this thread there's reference to a bass consultant who regularly writes in SABASS magazine that may be able to help(???) and if you want I can provide you with some contact details of scientists in the field that you may also get something from. Also try Dean Impson (contact details on previous page). And please neuter your cats!

Johanvc, the ESA proposal may not be a bad idea. One has to remember that politicians, like any other invasive, needs to be understood to be managed properly. And good public exposure to a politician is like softbait to bass - irresistable!
 
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robfisher

Senior Member
Hi GTZA… while I would be devastated if they did start killing bass it would mean that the government are paying attention to other things as well and that would be a good sign for the country. I’ll try not to worry about it until it starts to happen… especially seeing my next boat is going to be a Triton X2 19!

There is also a big development plan for Inanda Dam being driven by local government and it specifically caters for bass and bass fisherman… again whether this can ever get off the ground due to land claims etc remains to be seen.  They have two hotels, a residential section, and Yacht and Boat clubs on the plans…

Thanks for the advice on harvesting the smaller bass… yes I know who you are talking about… Stuart Slabbert… I have chatted to him a few times and am looking forward to meeting him when either I get up to Gauteng or he gets down to KZN.

And both my Bengals are spade. J
 
S

Scrat

Senior Member
I dont know if removing of small bass out of the dams really work. There are 2 dams in the Himeville Nature Reserve in Natal. The locals and visiting fisherman are told to remove all bass from the dams. I spoke to the ground keeper and he told me he personally removes about 5 small bass a day. He eats them for breakfast. I've seen him removing then on three occations. He catches them on fly within a few minutes.

I've never in the seen anybody or myself catch a bass bigger than about 1.2kg in these two dams.

Can it be that the bass dont get the chance to get bigger because they are being removed at such a rappid pace. I dont know how large a bass must be before they spawn!!! And how fast do bass really multiply?

Just a interesting observation!!!!!!!
 
L

Loams

Sealiner
Slot limits is an interesting thing, and quite scientific.

If he is catching 3 a day every day and catching them quite quickly he's probably not making any inroads on the population.

It's good to remove small Bass from a lake as they are:
1. More numerous than big Bass
2. Therefore consume more quantities of food
(this is the abbreviated version of course)

So there are probably a few big Bass floating around, but they are wiser than the angler and need better consideration to be caught. What you should perhaps do is to get deeper, and fish with bigger baits, and slow your presentation down. You'll probably hook into a few good ones. Also try to show them lures that they potentially have never seen.
 
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GTZA

Banned
[color=#006600]Scrat[/color] wrote:
I dont know if removing of small bass out of the dams really work... This is why a base survey and monitoring would be the ideal to indicate the pressure response of population structure to the harvesting. Generally, animals respond initially to harvesting by increasing productivity and/or a shift in male/female ratios of offspring and monitoring would highlight these responses so taht harvesting strategy can be accordingly planned.
Click to expand...
I've never in the seen anybody or myself catch a bass bigger than about 1.2kg in these two dams...Maximum adult size of fish is usually determined by three main factors: size of water body, population pressure and food web dynamics (i.e. availability of direct food source, food competitors and predators in system). The absence of larger individuals is a clear indication of imbalance between these three factors.
Click to expand...
Can it be that the bass dont get the chance to get bigger because they are being removed at such a rappid pace...Unlikely. If this was the case, population figures would be much lower than to allow catching of five bass on fly in a few minutes. Every indication is that of an overpopulation of bass.
Click to expand...
 
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