Hi, I am rigging heavy game tackle. Got 80lb br

Xander

New member
Hi,

I am rigging heavy game tackle. Got 80lb braid and 47kg leader. What is the best/strongest knot to use for this purpose? I am am after big tuna, marlin and big sharks.

Over kill I hear you say? But I have been stripped off my boat before on a couple of occasions so want to make sure I get the beasts...

Thanks!
 

tkei

Sealiner
Avoid braid as a main line. All the top international crews use dacron backing ontheir reels with a 150-200m topshot spliced onto the backing. Braid cuts into itself too easily f not loaded tight enough on the spool and also has no give on the take. The nylon topshot priovides the shock absorbtion. Also if you get crossed lines and burn offs, you are losing the cheaper nylon, not the expensive braid. 

As far as knots go, good luck getting the knots to hold on the strike by a big gamefish whilst trolling at 7 odd knots with 15-20lb of drag. Go the topshot route if you need the capacity that using braid or dacron backing offers.

Look on www.marlinmag.com for avice on this issue. numerous articles written by the best captains and crews in the world.

 
 
G

Guest

Guest
Xander,

I would think the best for joining braid to mono is the double bimini twist cats paw.  That is: tie a bimini on your braid and tie another bimini on your monofil.  Then using the two loops created from the bimini, tie a cats paw.

Reefman posted detailed step by step photos somewhere on this site, maybe try searching for it or look it up the Knots or FAQ's threads - and if that doesn't work, maybe Reefman can direct you to it.

Don't know too much about heavy tackle big game, but Tkei sounds quite right to me.  I know the guys then use a braided loop to attach their wind on leader to their monofil top shot.  Maybe someone else can shed more light.

Cheers

Gilly
 

Nepptune

Sealiner
tkei - Sorry mate, I have to agree with you for some part, but disagree with you on another....

Tying braid directly to your leader, in a trolling application is not smart, I'll agree with that 100%. But for any other aplication ( Jigging, live bating, bottom fishing, chunking etc ) its perfect, so long as your leader is at least 10 metres long.... The knot I would use in this case, without a doubt would be the PR Knot.

If however you are looking at trolling as well with this set up, then you are going to need a top shot as a shock absorber before your braid/spectra backing... anything from 75 to 150 metres worth.... here I would either use a braid splice application, or the PR knot again. Your best bet would be something like Jerry Brown Hollow Fibre Spectra which you can splice to your topshot...
This is the way the best Stand up fisherman on the US west coast long range boats fish.... these guys are fishing from boats that they can't use to chase fish, as they are anchored up or too big, and they are catching plenty tuna in the 150 kilo plus range....

Persoanlly, unless you are jigging, I would advise a topshot of at least 50 metres.... but I would choose briad/spectra over dacron any day..... just make sure you spool it properly under extreme tension and you are sorted...

So basically, I agree comepltely with tkei, just also adding that straight braid to leader def has its place, and that I'd choose braid over dacron every time...
 

tkei

Sealiner
Neptune, 100% there. Braid to leader for jigging, bottom fishing etc. When xander mentioned tuna and marlin, i automatically think Trolling, hence my answer.

Re the braid ahead of dacron, I am quoting the big names in marlin. Capt Peter Wright with 76 Grander marlin to his name as capt or mate on the boat etc. He swears by dacron as backing. Who am i to answer when i havnt caught one (yet).

I personally use mono to spool both my shimano tiagra and penn international as well as my smaller reels.

The long range tuna guys out of california etc do use braid as backing to bump up the capacity on their reels. They use the 30lb class reels with 80lb braid to give them the freedom of movement to walk around a stationary boat whilst fighing 200lb tuna and marlin.
 

Nepptune

Sealiner
tkei - right you are mate, Peter B Wright is certainly a force to be reckoned with in the big game world, and there are few skips on the planet who could match him for knowledge... Braid vs Dacron is a personal thing I think... personally, I prefer braid as its skinnier, and it lasts longer... dacron is perhaps a trifle more forgiving, but doesn't last... unless you got deep enough pockets to keep buyin the stuff....

Persoanlly I just love fishing with briad... I belive it defintely has its place in many MANY applications... but in others, like trolling, only as backing... Most guys here in the Cape fish stright mono.... I'm sure this results in less hook pulls.... Braid has about as much forgiveness as a woman scorned ..... :)

Xander - what reel are you looking to set up with this outfit? Maybe that would help us narrow this down...
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
Ja I use straight mono.
Bimini double line, then double figure eight to leader and double figure eight to fluero bite trace. Rapala knot to hook and if no fluero as in my trolling sticks, leader to lure via Rapala knot or figure eight to soft lures which are already made up with a Sampo and their own heavy leaders.

Never bust a knot ever not never (touch wood) so I have maximum faith in all the weak points.

As for braid, agree with Gilly, would bimini both lines and cats paw to join. Used it in the past and never had a problem.
Braid as a main line has only ended in one hell of a birds nest when one clever joe insisted on using it behind the boat. That stuff knots itself into horrible little nightmares in your wake. Tested it it more than once myself whilst light tackle trolling and also was not happy with the results.

Back up with it Xander, but top shot with mono for trolling and chunking.
Hate to feel an 80kg yellow rip braid through my hand as I fed my chunk down its gullet. he he look ma no fingers/
Fish 37kg mono and push your leader up to a 60kg super shock. I use plenty 60+ kg leader and it hasn't hindered us at all on the troll. The bait, well when the commercials drop to 45kg it tells you how fussy the fish are.

On that note there is bugger all out there. One commercial with two longfin. Thats gunna flood the market. Top boat Sunday had four fish and I think one was a yellowtail??? Time to go catch carp in rietvlei with the kids again.

.:spite
 

Reefman

Sealiner
Hammer wrote: Bimini double line, then double figure eight to leader and double figure eight to fluero bite trace.

Yes please! Good old faithful R/s knots... heheh da best!

Hammer, whats your take on using Dacron as mainline? Ever tried it? How come it's so popular with some of the big names...? Some swear by Dacron and the windon leaders... or is that solely for Billfishing?
 

Xander

New member
Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback.

Ok so here are the rigs I am using. I have changed my mind a bit while reading the comments etc.

For the big rig I have the following:
Penn Senator 12/0 with 600m of 30kg of nylon and 47kg nylon leader.
I will use this for trolling live bonnito's for marlin/sailfish, going for sharks or chunking when the big tunas come on the bait. Basically just target monsters.

The other rigs I will use the braid on, I will use this for trolling mainly:
1 x Penn 40 (wide spool) and 2 x Daiwa Firefox 40hi. For this am going to use the 80lb braid and about 10m of 40kg nylon leader.
I will use these for my main fishing for gamefish. Trolling mainly. For Cuda, Tuna, Dorado etc. the normal fishing.

The other one is my grinder.
Daiwa BG 60 with 80lb braid and about 10m of 47kg nylon leader.
This I will use for sight fishing (casting into a bait ball), bottom fishing and jigging.

I hope this clears everything up. I need to know what knot is the best to tie the nylon to nylon leader and to tie the braid to nyon leader.
 

tkei

Sealiner
I dont know the Diawa firefox, but if its the reel i am thinking of, beware of 80lb braid on it. I seem to think it has a graphite frame and the drag that will be necesary on 80lb will cause a few problems. Shimano and penn graphite models, TLD, TLD11 and Penn Formula 15 etc are rated for 50lb line. For 80lb you need the aluminium frame to prevent twisting etc that the high drag pressures cause.

Xander, Maybe the reason you have been spooled in the past is that the drag setting is not correct. at strike should be 25-30% of the line used, so on 80lb thats 20lb+ Huge pressure. The old penns are good work horses, even if drags a bit snatchy.
 

Fin-S

Sealiner
I think that braid really comes into it's own when capacity is an issue or when you want to downsize tackle but not strength. The long range California boats are generally stationary when they fish, hence they cannot chase a big fish and therefore capacity becomes important. But by its nature trolling involves a moving boat that can chase fish and hence 1000m should be fine - the mono capacity of a matched big game reel. I use braid to cast on my yellowtail casting rod and a popping rod for GT's, otherwise I stick to mono. Re your original question on knots, US Sport Fishing mag ran some extensive tests and for connecting braid they recommend making a bimini in the braid, (a counter intuitive 12 turn one) and connecting to a mono leader by a Yucatan knot. If tying the braid directly to terminal tackle, then a twice through palomar with double line tested highest. As per the other comments, knots should be measured and balanced against drag. I set most of my drags at maximum 70% (but fish them much lighter) of the lines dry rated strength. ie 35lb on 50lb gear. That is what the knot needs to stand up to.
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
tkei

Each skipper is going to tell you something different. Try a couple of different options and work out what works for you. Every rod I own has been reworked in some way to personalise it to my tastes. Most rods of the STP range, have a roller on the tip and the rest plain eyes. I believe that is not good enough and have a roller added to replace the first eye from the reel. Believe it puts less strain on the line.

My point...

The same can be said for knots, YOU must decide what is best. Advice is great, but when fish are thick and fast your gut must be happy with what you tie. Go play. Try different knots. You can do that in your garden. Get some spare line, make a few leaders, get a heavy scale and then test the hell out of each knot. I push it so far with my in-shore fishing that on my 2 & 3kg rigs I tie different knots for different brands of line. I have found some lines hold a certain knot better or maybe it is just the way I tie them that makes them appear to respond differently under pressure.
I could rig any of my set ups in the dark of night and know they will work.

Angling starts in your tackle den, bugger around as much as possible.
I will listen to anyone and have often tried new ideas, but when the fish are DIK my whole crew look in one direction for a strong quick rig that they know will hold out. Yeah I have time to bugger around, but even when I was working like a mad man, I HAD TO FIND THE SETUPS THAT SUITED MY STYLE, MY BOATS, MY EQUIPMENT.

I think you are under powered for the bigger fish with your real selections, I have seen the firewolf come apart on a big geelbeck and the guy angling was no mug either, it is the star drag diawa you are thinking about?
A big tuna is going to do horrible things to that real, trust me. Not saying you won't land it but I am not sure how many more fish are going to come along after that on that real.

The penn 12/0 is a star drag?
Only hassle with chunking with those big old guys is when you hit strike, you go to full drag if you have pre-set. I have voiced my opinion re drags and pre-setting. That means you hook up into a passing car on the bigger fish as you can't ease into it. Fine on the troll, but on the chunk... ouch!

BG 60. We had a few. Cast with them at shoaling longfin. Mr Yellow grabbed the spinner on both and they were actually released overboard on the same trip along with the promise of never wasting money again. Longfin - sure, yellows, no chance. Maybe a small fish or two but after that, sinkers bro sinkers.

Like Fin-S said, mono does the job just fine. Yeah braid's more direct etc. When you got 60+ kg of yellow on, you don't need direct you know it's there, crank up the drag and when you hit the gunnells that's direct.

I reckon other than the fresh fish on the plate you caught, the tackle prep is up there with the best of it.

Good luck.
 

tkei

Sealiner
Hamertime, I hear you re trying different things. I am always learning new tricks from others some less experienced than myself, but they still ahve worthwhile tricks.
My tiagra and penns are spooled with straight mono. I am not really into backing and braid on my game reels.
What I was saying was that Xander was amybe using the wrong tackle for his target species. Lever drag the only way to go for game.
HT clearly way ahead in the skills and knowledge in the tunny game. Down EL way we only dream of getting fish like you boys.
 

Hammertime

Sealiner
Ja sorry Tkei got the names twisted around. Too much staring at the vlei with the kids.
You guys still got the species though and some amazing ones at that.
I miss the old Natal days when I went fishing and came home with a whole box of tricks as opposed to one specific species.
 

sven

New member
hey there nepptune,

i see you reckon 10m leader lenght, why so long. is this to avoid your braid getting cut off on the boat?

 
 

Nepptune

Sealiner
Sven - I'm going by the recommendations of Jigging gurus here, as well as common sense regarding a little shock absorbtion, as well as abrasion resistance... If I have a fish boatside, on a heavy drag, I don't wanna be on the braid...one big late surge from that fish on straight braid, you are asking for trouble at the worst possibly time... I like to have at last 5 wraps of mono/flouro on the spool when a fish is within gaffing distance....This also gives the wireman something to grab hold of and work with if you are leadering fish to release...
Peace of mind really I guess, and good sense with abrasion and shock absorbtion...
 
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