Harties - leagalized Poaching

[Land Locked]

Pine, welcome to sealine.

 

[PineP]

[color=#006600]Land Locked[/color] wrote:

Pine, welcome to sealine.

Thanks "Land Locked" hope I can make a valid contribution here.

 

[Guest]

....not so long ago there was a report out on Rietvlei Dam and a group was formed "Friends of Rietvlei" quite a few passionate people joined and meetings (at Rietvlei) was held regularly with DWAF and Nature concervation etc etc. 3 meetings down the line and the numbers started dwindeling and currently the body still exists but there is no active participation.

So:

[color=#006600]PineP[/color] wrote:

[color=#006600]GTZA[/color] wrote:

1) Identify the problem (i.e. get to know your adversary)

2) Arrange a formal platform and audience for continuous debate.

3) Become part of the solution instead of merely complaining.

"New to this forum, Fishing for a couple of years, Received my colors for artlure fishing recently, won gold at nationals, distributor for Bagley's in SA, PRO for NORGALAS"

Hi

I agree with you on this we do need to form a plan to combat these issues. I hope that we (and here I mean the members on this forum that feel the same about this issue) can join forces with the currently structured fishing groups to form a joint formal platform to target these indiscretions.

Lets discuss, plan and formulate a plan.

to add -

4) Commitment to see the process through

 

[Andre Laas]

[color=#006600]Land Locked[/color] wrote:

Critter, are you saying we need to drill a borehole and install a solar stil for purification?

 

The problem is that our groundwater is also under threat! I gues however that it would be a short-term sollution.

I do not want to sound to pessimistic, as I am a "mostly positive" type of person, but I am really worried about our water!

 

[GTZA]

[color=#006600]Jacques[/color] wrote:

....not so long ago there was a report out on Rietvlei Dam and a group was formed "Friends of Rietvlei" quite a few passionate people joined and meetings (at Rietvlei) was held regularly with DWAF and Nature concervation etc etc. 3 meetings down the line and the numbers started dwindeling and currently the body still exists but there is no active participation.

So:

to add -

4) Commitment to see the process through

I reiterate:

...unless they have a clear and common (!!??) strategy and approach, their efforts will also come to nought.....
.......

.......
3) Become part of the solution.....


You are quite correct Jacques, commitment is essential. But not only from the "Friends of the Whatever" groups. From all of the acronymed bodies starting with SA...something-or-other and recognizing that the angling fraternity cannot be part of the solution unless we recognize that we are also part of the problem.

 

[Andre Laas]

[color=#006600]GTZA[/color] wrote:

"what is proposed in the report is precisely gill-netting with different meshes for different target groups and only seine netting with 300mm mesh for larger carp and barbel"

I understood that the gill nets were only used for the data collection phase to help in the assessment of species and population sizes, and that in the actual harvesting only seine nets would be used.

 I think we should be cautious to draw direct paralells to food web manipulation outcomes in other parts of the world. I for one would prefer to have more specific detail of baseline data, operational methods and procedures and ongoing monitoring data to compare.

I aggree completely that drawing direct parallells are dangerous, and not worth too much. As for the baseline data and opperating procedures, There are at least two hefty documents out on this whole project, containing a whealth of information including all techniques, data, findings etc. I have unfortionately moved recently, and my copies are still burried in some box. I will however see if I can find electronic versions.

I am not convinced that the sampling methods of the Harties study would stand up to scientific rigour for the purpose of recommendations on food web manipulation.

This specific project is monitored by an independant scientific panel, including specialists from South African universities, as well as government and private consultants, so I do believe that the scientfic content should be safe.

I have been involved in the FAO ALCOM programme in Africa and have yet to see a sustainable harvesting project. Let us not forget also the abandoned project to deal with the Harties algal problem by introduction of Chinese silver carp which was ill-conceived and abandoned before even close to implementation. But not before having the alien fish escape into Arabie where they happily reproduced until we are now exporting Silver carp to the Mozambique floodplains every time the Arabie overflows.

This is our biggest problem in Africa! Powers that be gain scientific "evidance" that looks all rosy and wonderful on paper, and then they hand the project over to persons that have no proper training or schooling for that matter, and they smile about their wonderfull initiative to create jobs and "saving" our environment. This is if corruption and foul play do not destroy the whole project before it is initiated.  

[/quote]

What I am trying to say is that the guys doing the main work for the project are scientists who have tendered for a project that was presented to them. They do get paid fairly well for soing the project and writing all the reports etc., but after that, they may or may not stay on as advisors. Further than that, I do not believe that they will ever see a cut from any harvesting. That is the fate of a lot of scientists in Africa, and in my opinion a big motivator for the brain drain!

Food web manipulation can and do work...BUT.... I aggree with all that it will most likely not work in SA as this would be turned into an opportunity to legally rape all fish-holding water bodies in SA.
​

 

[GTZA]

[color=#006600]Critter[/color] wrote:

This is our biggest problem in Africa! Powers that be gain scientific "evidance" that looks all rosy and wonderful on paper, and then they hand the project over to persons that have no proper training or schooling for that matter, and they smile about their wonderfull initiative to create jobs and "saving" our environment. This is if corruption and foul play do not destroy the whole project before it is initiated.  

​

Let's rather just agree to disagree.​

 

[Andre Laas]

Agreed!

 

Lets rather :fishn

 

[PineP]

I wonder what the impact to the government would be through loss of taxes, jobs and foreign exchange caused by this netting (and here I mean the weekend fisherman with nowhere to fish and the impact to the Tatlow Pledgers and King Fishers of South Africa) If we allow this to happen at Harties its not going to take long for it to be everywhere.

With Fishing being the single biggest sport in the world with the most capital expenditure per annum, this will be a mind blowing figure. Maybe forth getting a financial impact study done on this aspect, which the original assessment happily overlooked.

Pine

 

[Fanie]

I apologise for the late response. I'm trying to find out who is actually in charge of the water (Harties) and if there is a live body to communicate to in this respect. My contact was in meetings the whole day bu-hut I'll get some information from him on Monday.

The problem with this DFI is he tells stories to people and even had 50-50 do the little thing aboout the fish that cause polution, hence justifying the illegal activity. This footwork he has done now creates an image also believed by certain authorities who might be releasing funds (R800 000 !) to put up the fisheries.

Authorities are then under the impression that this is an important step in cleaning the dam's mass up and think it is in the interest of ie the weekend fishermen on the one side while on the other hand the claimed millions of rands that is going to stream in is going to more than compensate for the current income that may then be lost.

The impression thus is it cleans the dam up, it creates jobs and creates revenue - all a load of bull.

 

[Ryan]

Hello OOM FAAN.
I see you like me avatar........
Your boat on your profile should read "AIR CRAFT CARRIER".

Howzit Uncle Pine - welcome both of you's to sealine hape you both become rabid addicts like the rest of us......

HAd me reading somewhat - damn I hate being away when it is all goin down - but alas we have to fish some time......

 

[MENCO]

I unfortunately cannot reply to this post at this stage, but will return when I have more time. THis post mainly serves as a shameless bump

 

[Ryan]

Well glad you brought this up.....

Seems like there little project is working at Harties as there has been a major return of certain species (Blue Kurper) but sadly the dam remains a toxic green sludge

 

[Marthin]

ok i'm not a scientist.
Shouldnt Bloemhof be so green and toxic that u could walk over it?

It's BS.

I heard a theory, that because harties wasnt dredged as it should have been, the sluice at the bottom cannot be opened as it has been clogged up completely by sediment, and this is the main factor. PS this could also be complete BS.

 

[Ryan]

Complete BS.......

 

[Bernard Venter]

I mostly agree with Critter's comments. The scientists involved have a good track record. Their report on the project is substantial. I agree that the biggest problem still remains the inflow that needs to improved. According stats given at the last Yellowfish Conference, the inflow in Harties has improved comparing with a few years ago. The sollution is not an easy one. There were many reports on Harties stated that it would take 20 years to recover. In general I am not in favour of (gill)netting and has most probably removed more nets than most people. However the numbers of blue Kurper have definately improved in Harties. The quality of carp also. Still plenty of barbel. Surprised by the numbers of yellows. Concerned about the dwindling numbers of papermouth (in many dams). The netting in Bloemhof has influenced the numbers of yellows, but not carp and barble.

 

[Pokkels]

hi guys. sory i'm totally late on this. i have been fishing @ harties for many years and as most of you i feel this is a major issue. is there a way that we as the fishing community can help in anyway? i'm willing to help where possible. is this open for discussion with higher authority or what is situation, do we wait and see what happens?