Fish identification

[The Tripper]

Hi, pretty new to salt water fishing so need some help with the ID of the fish my 5 year old Son caught close to the mouth of Sedgefield lagoon about a month ago.

It was about 320mm long and probaly just under a Kilo and was caught on a pilchard at low tide, might be an Elf? The fish was returned alive and wagging its tail despite the picture. Teaching and encourageing catch and release with the kids as they seem to catch more fish than me as I am constantly re-rigging their rods etc. All part of the fun.

Cheers

 

[J_Bay]

Strange pose in the photo, lol, but that's a Shad, or as you say, and Elf.

For interests sake, the minimum legal size is 30cm fork length, and you are allowed 4 per person.

Tasty little guy, and also a great live bait!

 

[SAfish]

Great catch for a 5 year old. Respect for teaching them young about catch and release. I do the same with my son and now everything must go back.  Caution: Elf can give you a very nasty bite! :ssswim:

 

[The Tripper]

thanks for the heads up on the biting story, I was fishing with 4,,5Kg lnylon line and had two fish off at and including the hook with very frayed line, they were well hooked and played for about 30-40secs before each snap! I was trying to teach the kids how to play a fish and us the drag if necessary! Who's teaching who I wonder?

The optomist in me will say they were fish in excess of 4,5Kg but with no steel trace could easily be a smaller elf munching his way through the line then? Next time I will try to retrieve at high speed as my son did hell for leather on his 3Kg nylon?

Would decent braid have made the difference in my case and a quick retrieve?

 

Cheers

 

[aquadementia]

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

 

[SAfish]

Sometimes when the shad are "in" biting it can be a problem when you don't fish with a wire trace. I try and keep it short and will use a wire bite trace of about 3-5cm long and a long shank hook, it is easy to hide inside your bait. I also use the same hooks that bass fisherman use when rigging plastic worms, they are strong, have a long shank and they are normally of a thinner gage steel.

 

[J_Bay]

If I can add something regarding shad. Please remember that if they are around, and you want to get into them propperly, don't use any shiny swivels. Only use the black ones.

The reason is that if they go into a frenzy, wich they often do, you will get a lot of them that attack your shiny swivel, and bite you off.

If you get bitten by a shad, you will blead profusely because they have an antigoagulant on their teeth. Best to apply peroxide.

 

[Enigma]

With shad there's no nicety's of playing them.

When they're on pull or they through the hook, on light tackle they often jump and they easily through a hook.

Longshank hook with a 0.70 nylon hook snood is fine for young elf but won't do the trick if the big ones come on the bite. A nylon coated steel trace will still get bites.

The KZN South Coast locals use Nylon Coated steel (60lbs) for Garrick now days so it won't bother an elf.

 

[tauruck]

aquadementia wrote:

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

Disagree on the wire trace. I don't know jack about R&S but I've caught 100's of Shad, Elf or Blue fish. Not Big ones but plenty. Where I come from they chow fluorocarbon stukkend. You need to understand that when the Shad are running the lat thing you want is to have to keep cutting off frayed line and fitting new hooks. Then there is that Gelukskoot when something else takes the bait. Losing a good fish is one thing and it happens to everyone but not knowing what it was HURTS. Just my 2c. aqua, you need to get to Mtwalume one year when the Shad are ON.

 

[The Tripper]

Loving the info and the healthy debate, thanks for all the input from you all. My next request will be a set up for bigger fish like Garrick but thats for another week.

Seems like salty fishin's a lot more involved than freshie but then I think the rewards will be greater,

Cheers

 

[aquadementia]

tauruck wrote:

aquadementia wrote:

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

Disagree on the wire trace. I don't know jack about R&S but I've caught 100's of Shad, Elf or Blue fish. Not Big ones but plenty. Where I come from they chow fluorocarbon stukkend. You need to understand that when the Shad are running the lat thing you want is to have to keep cutting off frayed line and fitting new hooks. Then there is that Gelukskoot when something else takes the bait. Losing a good fish is one thing and it happens to everyone but not knowing what it was HURTS. Just my 2c. aqua, you need to get to Mtwalume one year when the Shad are ON.

i was giving advice on how a father can help his kids get more bites. Even if they get bitten off now and then it'll keep them entertained. I wasnt giving advice on how best to catch shad in a smash. You'll catch them on 400lb steel swim bait traces when they're 'ON'.


P.S. I very rarely target shad nowadays and if I do, I'll use a spoon. I've caught plenty size shad on bait, but I wasnt targetting them specifically at the time. Never been bitten off by one but maybe I've just been lucky?

 

[Havoc]

I agree with Aqua. I use .80mm leader line on my hook snoot and I've never been bitten off. The bigger elf also have bigger gaps between their teeth making it harder for them to bite through your line. I'm not debating whether or not you get more bites, but I am saying steel is not required for Elf.

My humble opinion.

 

[Trophy]

Use Steel...one day you will be sorry you stuck to mono!

 

[khan]

aquadementia wrote:

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

Disagree with you 1 million %

sorry mate been catching shad for over 28 years, ues 28 years evre since i was around 6 and guys fishing without trace wire lost more than what i caught. 

 

[aquadementia]

khan wrote:

aquadementia wrote:

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

Disagree with you 1 million %

sorry mate been catching shad for over 28 years, ues 28 years evre since i was around 6 and guys fishing without trace wire lost more than what i caught. 

So they were obviously hooking more fish than you were? my point exactly. Thanks

 

[khan]

aquadementia wrote:

khan wrote:

aquadementia wrote:

If you get bitten off just try using some thicker trace line. Like .5 fluorocarbon and a long shank hook should be ok for your smaller shad. I dont feel that a wire trace is necessary for shad, but many fishermen do use them. You will not get nearly as many bites if you do

Disagree with you 1 million %

sorry mate been catching shad for over 28 years, ues 28 years evre since i was around 6 and guys fishing without trace wire lost more than what i caught. 

So they were obviously hooking more fish than you were? my point exactly. Thanks

Very funny BOY!!!

 

[aquadementia]

Hahaha i dont doubt the confidence you have in your technique, its worked for you the last 28 years! To each their own. Like I'd rather have a better chance at a kob and be bitten off if i do hook a shad. Anyway that doesnt matter. The very fact that we're having this debate means that both techniques produce the results. I'll be placing an order with you for the bday bash so speak soon!

 

[khan]

MMMMmmm

now i have to be nice!!LOL

Must admit caught many shad in transkei using .74 siglon fluorocarbon with a single 6/0 Lion octopus needle.

This one was 5kg's caught on the fluorocarbon rig earlier this year, damn if only i had this catch now, i would be in line for some great prices in the kingfisher's shad comp. 

 

[tauruck]

Khan, I don't care how you got that one. Wire or no wire. That's a SHAD!!!!

 

[jaccil]

I have to agree with aqua here: the situation described is not a shad smashing.  Tripper was fishing a lagoon where you can catch a variety of other species which can be put off by a steel trace.  Kob, steenbras, grunter, leervis and even mullet may take fish/chokka/mussel/prawn (baits shad may take).

I would suggest exactly what aqua did: use fluoro for your hook snood and upgrade the diameter a bit if some shad are causing hassles.

If you're going to target only shad, then by all means use that steel trace!  Where shad is shy like in False Bay, I'll use a long shank 5/0 with thick fluoro, as shown to me by an old WP angler in the Strand who managed to get his quota when no-one else even got a bite!