DO FISH FEEL PAIN?

Reefman

Sealiner
Do fish feel pain?
The world's foremost expert on the subject is Dr. James D. Rose of the University of Wyoming. He's spent 30 years working on questions of neurology, examining data on the responses of animals to painful stimuli. In 2003 Rose published a landmark study in the journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, concluding that animals need specific regions of the cerebral cortex in order to feel pain. And fish do not have them.

But doesn't it hurt to have a hook in your mouth?

There's a big difference between pain and the perception of pain (which scientists call "nociception"). Dr. Rose explained to London's Telegraph newspaper:

"Pain is predicated on awareness … A person who is anaesthetized in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain. Anyone who has seen a chicken with its head cut off will know that, while its body can respond to stimuli, it cannot be feeling pain."​
I don't imagine animal-rights activists are very fond of Dr. Rose.

Right you are. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), for instance, operates a misleading "Fishing Hurts" propaganda campaign based on the work of a few "neutral" experts. (PETA says Dr. Rose isn't neutral because he enjoys fishing.) One of PETA's experts is a "Professor of Animal Welfare" who also believes it's cruel to raise faster-growing cows and turkeys. Another is a microbiologist who claims it's "unthinkable that fish do not have pain receptors" -- despite having done no scientific work with fish -- and equates our "lack of justice and compassion to other animals" with human slavery.

It's worth noting that PETA has sought fishing bans in state parks and called for a Constitutional amendment protecting fish. In 2005 when PETA tried to scare fishermen away from their sport by claiming fish contain "poison," campaign director Bruce Friedrich admitted his strategy on an animal-rights mailing list: "For people who don't care about the suffering of fish, I suspect this will terrify them into not eating them."

What about lobsters and crabs? Do they feel pain when they're boiled or steamed?

A 2005 Norwegian study reported that lobsters and crabs don't have the capacity to feel pain either. The British Guardian newspaper detailed the study's findings, explaining that lobsters and crabs have only about 100 thousand neurons. Many vertebrates have upwards of 100 billion.
 

leonard williams

Senior Member
howsit reefs.iv heard that they dont because they are cold blooded and thats why they dont feel when they hooked.its just what i was told years ago,but we'll never know cos we not the fish feeling the pain,i hope im right!lets get every 1s oppinion on the topic.::slo
 

wollychop

New member
In Dr Rose's excerpt it mentioned the possibility of a negative experience being equated to pain, even though it has not actually been a tangible sensation - much like flipping through the TV channels and happening across parliamentary TV. I am of the opinion that fish certainly do not enjoy the sensation of being a captive of hook and line - whether it annoys them as much as taxis annoy me is an unsolvable issue. Does the taxman stop stealing my fishing coupons because I am uncomfortable with it? No, and so we must conclude that life is not fair! Unfortunately, this does not bode well for our finned friends. However, we must strive to fish as ethically as possible - minimising discomfort and "limiting our catch, not catching our limit" so as to portray ourselves in a positive light and ensure sustainability!
 

jace

Senior Member
Hi guys

This topic has several scientic inputs and to my knowledge has still not been laid to rest. As to the fish being cold blooded has nothing to do with pain receptors.

Just some science

"Recent research published in April 2003 by The Royal Society investigated the sensory system of trout through their responses to injections of bee venom and acetic acid around their mouths. In effect the research was trying to find out whether fish possessed the same kind of pain receptors that have already been identified in amphibians, birds and mammals including humans. And secondly, whether the response to the pain producer (i.e. the bee sting etc) was not just a reflex response which might be akin for example to pressing the belly of a talking barbie doll; but rather an actual adverse reaction to the pain stimulus.

What they found was that the fish had 58 such receptors around the mouth and actually reacted at lower levels of pain stimulation then humans, perhaps because their skin is more easily damaged. After the fish were injected with the venom they were observed to show a rocking motion akin to that displayed by other mammals when experiencing stress; they also rubbed their lips on the bottom of the tank and against the walls, and took over twice as long to resume feeding then a control group. The study, which was led by Dr Lynne Sneddon of Liverpool University concluded:

 

I think from a lay person we know that a fish had a nervous system therfore a network of nerves. Therefore their needs to be some sort of pain threshold.

It makes sense that it one its comrade in the water decides to take a bite off a fish...there has to be a stimulus to allow the fish to react and move away.If the bite did not pain ...WHHY would the fish move Off.

Rdgs

Jace
 

Mel G

Senior Member
Howzit guys, this is an interesting one... I come from a research background, and from all these differering opinions and studies, i'm even more confused than when i started...

So, the question still remains Do Fish feel Pain???

My opinion is that, YES they do, but not to the same extent that we do. The most important facet of pain, is the perception of pain... So the real question is: How do fish percieve pain?

Due to the lack of development of the nervous system of fish, they cannot have the same reaction or feeling of pain as we (humans) do. Rather than saying that fish feel pain, it would be physiologically correct to state that fish feels a state discomfort. This discomfort comes from the fact that something unnatural is happening to it (eg. hook in the mouth).

The reason that a fish moves away when being bitten, is the simple "Fight or Flight", its instinct is to move away no matter what the situation, its an inbred natural defense move...

So to conclude, my personal opinion is that Fish do not feel the same pain that we do, but rather have a general feeling of discomfort when stressed by a fisherman (hooking up, hook in mouth, removal of hook), so it sets into motion a series of instinctual response (what we feel on our rods-"the fight" and when we land them, the jumping around)

I hope that my opinions help...

Tightlines...
 

jace

Senior Member
Hi Mel

I think most of the research points to the fact that there is emperical evidence that they do feel pain/discomfort.

The question that has not been answered is HOW MUCH....science has shown they do not have similar receptors to other mamals but they feel. I am sure you heard of stories of ORCA killer whales taking revenge on ships that kill their babies and of dolphins pining for the mates...so if these mamamals have that level of emotional pain I reasonably sure they have some aspect of physical pain.

Rdgs

Jace
 
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