CASTING SURF GRINDERS (LOW REEL SEAT) COMPARING K SERIES TO LOW RIDERS

E

Enigma

Moderator
I personally prefer the Low Rider Casting Concept and it works just fine for me.

St Croix on their Striper rods are using them extensively and just about every Continental Surf Rod in Europe is fitted with them.

Yet there are still those detractors all around the world saying it can't work and a few in RSA have tested rods and found them wanting.

During the SAFTAD trade show I was told a Euro rod with the K series on was tested and found to not work with "OUR" tackle.

"OUR" Tackle was key for me as we do it like no-one else does it. SO with some thought and theorizing and info exchange with OTGMan (Alfred Toh of Japan) I decided to rather than theorize and postulate I was going to measure the differences on K Series and Low riders.

The K series I set up using the Fuji Guide Placement Software and then tweaked the positions to match the rod curvature.

The Low riders I wanted to go the same way but as "OUR" tackle on a Bullseye XT means a 200lbs or 0.80mm leader I wanted to do High #20 with #16 LC's to the tip only to find that the LC16 at the end it to high for the tip and that the angle will result in the braid flowing off the last guide into the frame of the tip and not through the enter of the guide.

The solution was to go from LC to only #16 K series on the tip which provide a better flow into the tip guide.

The Rods, well if all goes well you'll see them used on a TV show and I'm fine tuning them for use with the Shimano Bullseye

The rods are 14' 6-8oz.

To get independent results I enlisted the help of Thinus (Manager AoA) and Kobie van Staden, top Junior Javelin athletes and Provincial R&S anglers with SASAA and CG A side colours

Casting was on both rods with 14000 reel, 30lbs (0.35mm) Suffix 832, 6oz lead (lead only) 200lbs Braid leader (full length) No Bionic Finger, Clear and sunny with 15-28km wind gusts (casting cross wid to check the effect of wind on the braid and guides)

Results - (Average of all casts less top cast and worst cast)

Kobie 176m
Thinus 170m

Distance variation on the 2 setups, neglible.

Line wraps on guides or wind knots, 0

Final result, we'll build one of each and have them ready and in use at the upcoming WP league season

[flash=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/R3EytHnW3GI[/flash]
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
So which are best. Currently on pure casting performance......... neither.

They both however outperform any standard guide hands.

For fishing I would still prefer the Low rider as I have fished them extensively now for 9 years on spinning, plugging, popping, shark and eds rods. Line control onto the reel is better and better smoother line lay removes chances of wind knots and the shape of the ring and frame is specifically designed to minimise line twist caused by Grinders

Some screen shots of the casts (Kobie Green Shirt and Thinus Blue)





 
E

Enigma

Moderator
Just for fun they then cast with the 12'6" Oval DC - 0.20mm line and 2oz on Ultegra 14000, the rod is set up with Fuji Low Rider casting concept. Thinus with a 196m Cast









 
O

OTGman

New member
Enigma wrote:
During the SAFTAD trade show I was told a Euro rod with the K series on was tested and found to not work with "OUR" tackle.
Click to expand...

 

I don't think it's because of 'OUR' tackle. The reel design, guide design, line material, HMG material in rod you use, we also use except it is in a smaller rating/ level. Like radio to mp3 player comparison. It should be something related to butt guide spacing optimization, nylon shockleader and small degree in reel pairing that they had previously used before they bring it to SA.

Both Kobie and Thinus cast far, they would have won a trophy if they are in my country. Also thank you for measuring the cast, it remind me to practise more. 
 
A

Abaddon

Sealiner
Howsit Craig

I love these threads you do.. always insightful, educational and just a pleasure to read and in this case watch.

I see those rods are subjected to some serious forces and the distortion in the blanks can be seen in the latter part of the cast.

Might be a stupid observation and then question, you made mention of the tip guide and flow of line through it..

 "I wanted to do High #20 with #16 LC's to the tip only to find that the LC16 at the end it to high for the tip and that the angle will result in the braid flowing off the last guide into the frame of the tip and not through the enter of the guide."

With the "distortion" of the blanks and the "recoil" at the end of the cast as seen at 0:12 , 0:27 , 0:42 & 0:50, will the use of a LC16 as opposed to the #16 make that much of a difference?

I know rod building is your game, you are exceptional at it, it was just my observation and resultant question.
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
Craig, I did use a setup with 3 x Low riders on the tip section with a single K seriesto reduce the angle and flow.

When I cast the rod it looks perfect and not much distortion but when these 2 cast the rod it doesn't look so nice anymore.

What I can say it that with Standard guides they both rend to wrap lines around the top 2 guides or tip and when using the K Series they guides shed those wraps quicker and without influencing the cast.

The reason I asked then to cast the rods is because they can push a rod to and beyond the limits.

To give you an idea Kobie at the past casting trials casts a 12.5cm dummy bait and 8oz weight on a multiplier setup over 150m and a 360gr dummy bait and weight over 120m. I can't do either and only Dino "Dynamite" the owner of the new Bronzie out did him.

Put it this way after what they put those rods through this past weekend I'd be happy casting a 10oz slide sinker on that blank as only then would I be putting forces anywhere near the same through the blank.

The rods will be assembled this week and have their last casting session before heading to Cape Town.
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
As you can see at 12 and 27 sec in the video the rod bounces once and recovers to position.

At 0:42 & 0:50 sec. That rod is the 1-4oz rod which is fitted with 3 x LC #10 in the recoil section and as a result of those guides tip wrap is eliminated.

I'll see where the T24 version with standard guides video is, that rod the whole rod at the end of the cast bends almost as much as it bent in the cast can the tip actually bends down to touch the water and bounces 5 times before recovering which causes line wrap on the guides.
 
A

Abaddon

Sealiner
Daai manne KAN MOS !!

A lot in development that is simply overlooked or worse yet, not even considered by the anglers. Would equate it to an artists works never being seen.

Sure the guys on the forums and anyone serious about their kit will appreciate all your input/development.

::respekt:
 
K

Koper

Senior Member
Bloody hell, impressive!

Ek sal Devan moet pap voer, daai 12.6vt Oval van hom het nog baie om te gee.
 
J

Joker

Senior Member
Impressive Enigma.

Just to have a look at the way the rod behaves after a cast, is an eye-opener.

I wish i could load a rod like that :)
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
This is how the Low riders bring the line under control reducing the Cone of Flight to Virtually nothing, reducing friction and rod slap forward.

This is a pic taken of a St Croix Legend Surf Series
 

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E

Enigma

Moderator
Going to be casting with Bionic finger and Hockey ball (9oz) this weekend

Thinus and Kobie don't waste time with gadgets they catch fish and you can see from the cast why they catch fish.
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
Well we went casting without the Bionic finger and with an 8oz weight.

Line was 50lbs Fireline (thick stuff)

140lbs HMP Braid leader, 0.80mm Mono Leader, 1mm mono leader and even 1.2mm mono leader.

There were 5 casters over the weekend and we got through 150 casts in all manner of weather conditions but majority of 20-28km/h cross winds

Our average casts were 137m with the setup with max cast 162m

General consensus was that the rod fitted with Low Riders was the rod with the smoothest action and just felt better.

I tend to whip the rod and was the only one who got a definitive difference between Low Riders and K Series and measured and average of 11m further on all casts with the Low Riders
 
E

Enigma

Moderator
The rods were in final build. Both are fitted with Alconite guides.

One low Riders BLCAG #20 followed by 5 x #16 and a single BKWAG #16 channeling to the tip BMNAT #16

Thee other K Series #40H dropping in sizes to #16 with BMNAT #16 tip

Both the rods are now in Cape Town and are going to go through a season of fishing to see how the theory and test casting translates to actual fishing and pulling....we hope some big fish.


[flash=640,480]http://www.youtube.com/v/0MMkTvNHrRM[/flash]
 
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