Big cob slaughter outside mouth by Witsand
- Thread starter tuna
- Start date
I highky doubt that is a commercail boat...the second photo with the 2 big cob is not cool.I agree, but remember that the fishing in struis is so unpredictable and crew have to make money when the going is good.Thye might not go to sea for weeks cause of the conditions or its just not the right time of year. If i had a family and mouths to feed id do the same thing..
tackle whore
Senior Member
Muri wrote:
You really believe that ? As a commercial fisherman let me tell you that the ski boats move where the fish is - tail in Struis then most of the fleet will be there , snoek in Ysters then they back there, snoek at Hermanus then they there the "catch as much as we can when the going is good" is just a bullshit excuse to catch everything that swims .Its an arrogant attitude that will never change and when you try to educate the crew they think you mad go check the commercials in struis the crews all catch red steenbras they fillet them at sea and pack their lunch boxes full even though its a protected species .
You really believe that ? As a commercial fisherman let me tell you that the ski boats move where the fish is - tail in Struis then most of the fleet will be there , snoek in Ysters then they back there, snoek at Hermanus then they there the "catch as much as we can when the going is good" is just a bullshit excuse to catch everything that swims .Its an arrogant attitude that will never change and when you try to educate the crew they think you mad go check the commercials in struis the crews all catch red steenbras they fillet them at sea and pack their lunch boxes full even though its a protected species .
Yip fully agree - it seems that when you have a commercial license it suddenly makes everything OK, and somehow the obvious impact on the resource is nullified. The point is we know our fish stocks are severely under pressure the regs protecting our natural resources must be reviewed and policed. For the future . . . just my 2Cents
Inky Squid
Active member
how many of those 70kg+ cob that were caught from the shore were released last year and the years before?
i think it is the same principal...you dont know what you going to catch until you have landed it...or if you see that you have a big fish on why dont you cut your line and give it its freedom, but no, we will rather remove it from the water, pick it up by the gills, lay it on the beach,take a couple of pics, then say it died from exhaustion, I think we need to stop badgering the commercials all the time...we as R&S anglers do far more damage than we think to fish stocks.
secondly, if you ever take notice from the spearfishing websites and forums, you will see that the majority of fish are massive as you have a choice to shoot what you want, I never see anyone badgering the spearos, but also a good sign is, when you see underwater footage of fish, like the Steenbras, they are seeing massive shoals of 15-20kg fish.Now, what does that mean?
fishing is a drug, addictive to the point where everything one has learned or wanted to do go out the window when you have a big fish on the line or the fish is on the bite
I dont think we can realistically deny that.
i think it is the same principal...you dont know what you going to catch until you have landed it...or if you see that you have a big fish on why dont you cut your line and give it its freedom, but no, we will rather remove it from the water, pick it up by the gills, lay it on the beach,take a couple of pics, then say it died from exhaustion, I think we need to stop badgering the commercials all the time...we as R&S anglers do far more damage than we think to fish stocks.
secondly, if you ever take notice from the spearfishing websites and forums, you will see that the majority of fish are massive as you have a choice to shoot what you want, I never see anyone badgering the spearos, but also a good sign is, when you see underwater footage of fish, like the Steenbras, they are seeing massive shoals of 15-20kg fish.Now, what does that mean?
fishing is a drug, addictive to the point where everything one has learned or wanted to do go out the window when you have a big fish on the line or the fish is on the bite
I dont think we can realistically deny that.Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
It is just common sense. A 50 kg female cob makes millions of eggs, a breeding size 7-10 kg female makes a few thousand. In the E cape cob aquaculture project they support something like a 50 ton/ month (think they are going to produce 10 times more once established) controlled fishery from just a few (less than 20 I think) very large breeding stock females. They do this in a warehouse... It makes you think doesn't it.
It should be the commercials, who's livelihood directly depends on the fish stocks, who should be the most protective of the big breeding mammas and the babies...but they are not. Idiots. It is just plain stupidity and ignorance to not do so and it is time that all our fellow fishermen who do understand the dynamics of fish numbers a bit better to educate as much as possible the others.
Muri, if you had a family to feed and support with fish, you'd have to catch many more to start college funds as your kids would have to find new careers with the seas being empty. Cob stocks are estimated to be at 2% of optimal level, this is why plain and simple... Idiots are shooting themselves in the foot.
The value of a KG of meat from a large breeding stock fish is worth a peanuts to one crew, being pap and parasite ridden anyway, when taken out of the sea. The value of one KG of meat of the same fish is worth millions to us all when left to swim and breed another day. That is no exaggeration, a large cob makes millions of babies a few times a season which equates to millions of KG's and then rands once 'the interest is accrued on the capital left in the communal bank' ie. if we keep on withdrawing the capital (large fish) and don't account for the natural depreciation( old age and death of these fish) by making sure undersize fish are let free to replace and replenish then the bank will have to close. If we look after the capital, account for depreciation and create more communal banks ( marine reserves and no take zones) we could all live off the interest along with our decendants. Humans are backwards.
It should be the commercials, who's livelihood directly depends on the fish stocks, who should be the most protective of the big breeding mammas and the babies...but they are not. Idiots. It is just plain stupidity and ignorance to not do so and it is time that all our fellow fishermen who do understand the dynamics of fish numbers a bit better to educate as much as possible the others.
Muri, if you had a family to feed and support with fish, you'd have to catch many more to start college funds as your kids would have to find new careers with the seas being empty. Cob stocks are estimated to be at 2% of optimal level, this is why plain and simple... Idiots are shooting themselves in the foot.
The value of a KG of meat from a large breeding stock fish is worth a peanuts to one crew, being pap and parasite ridden anyway, when taken out of the sea. The value of one KG of meat of the same fish is worth millions to us all when left to swim and breed another day. That is no exaggeration, a large cob makes millions of babies a few times a season which equates to millions of KG's and then rands once 'the interest is accrued on the capital left in the communal bank' ie. if we keep on withdrawing the capital (large fish) and don't account for the natural depreciation( old age and death of these fish) by making sure undersize fish are let free to replace and replenish then the bank will have to close. If we look after the capital, account for depreciation and create more communal banks ( marine reserves and no take zones) we could all live off the interest along with our decendants. Humans are backwards.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
Inky Squid wrote:
Look up dotty on the web, a world record bass caught many times. She was well over 30lbs when last caught prespawn and over 20 lbs when found freshly floating post the same spawn. She released maybe 5kgs of bass roe in her last gift to the world and will keep them fishing long into the future. This is the same for all fish as far as I know, amount of eggs released is directly proportional to the size of the fish. A 40 cm fertile cob will release maybe 5000 eggs a year I've read, where a 1.2m cob will release up to 1.5 million eggs a spawn while a 2m cob will release up to 6 million eggs a spawn. This has also been well studied in hatcheries which supply cob aquaculture.
If you think everyone has it wrong...if it was 'everyone' fish stocks would not be on a steep decline... why do you think it is the 'mid size' fish that support a stock? Have you got a study for me to read that supports this, as every other study I've read in the past says otherwise and I'm curious as to who's on the ball.
Um that is not what the scientists say, cob and related species have been well studied in the Mediterranean, Auz and the States (Drum). Fish are a bit different to humans, and no men have ovaries unless there is a discrepancy with their sex. The larger a fish is, the larger the ovaries are. The volume of the ovaries increase exponentially as the fish gets larger and exponentially more eggs are produced. A 50kg cob makes as many eggs during a spawn as a 1000 small breeding size females. For real! In addition, she will spawn multiple times a year as opposed to once a year like the small females. Making her effectively a breeding machine churning out the same number of babies in a year as up to 3000 'barely legal' girls. One fish.
Look up dotty on the web, a world record bass caught many times. She was well over 30lbs when last caught prespawn and over 20 lbs when found freshly floating post the same spawn. She released maybe 5kgs of bass roe in her last gift to the world and will keep them fishing long into the future. This is the same for all fish as far as I know, amount of eggs released is directly proportional to the size of the fish. A 40 cm fertile cob will release maybe 5000 eggs a year I've read, where a 1.2m cob will release up to 1.5 million eggs a spawn while a 2m cob will release up to 6 million eggs a spawn. This has also been well studied in hatcheries which supply cob aquaculture.
If you think everyone has it wrong...if it was 'everyone' fish stocks would not be on a steep decline... why do you think it is the 'mid size' fish that support a stock? Have you got a study for me to read that supports this, as every other study I've read in the past says otherwise and I'm curious as to who's on the ball.
@ Dr HH,
You mention that Cob stocks are at 2% of optimum. How has this been established? If this in fact the case - it makes the obvious pillaging of the resource even more shameful. More importantly why are the regulations on the exploitation of the species not amended , surely we must then have reached the eleventh hour and the above debate is mute?
In addition if this fact is correctly communicated I believe that any regulations protecting the species will gain much more support. I am sure that every Angler would act as an informal enforcement officer by reporting - teaching -guiding in order to protect our sport we old so dear.
You mention that Cob stocks are at 2% of optimum. How has this been established? If this in fact the case - it makes the obvious pillaging of the resource even more shameful. More importantly why are the regulations on the exploitation of the species not amended , surely we must then have reached the eleventh hour and the above debate is mute?
In addition if this fact is correctly communicated I believe that any regulations protecting the species will gain much more support. I am sure that every Angler would act as an informal enforcement officer by reporting - teaching -guiding in order to protect our sport we old so dear.
tackle whore
Senior Member
politics mate fish cant vote - government is more interested in RDP housing than environment .If they really cared they would stop the pearly poachers, rhino/ivory poaching, crayfish, illegal long lining, poaching by the recreational beach and boat anglers catching over bag limit and under size fish etc etc
Tokkie Potgieter
Senior Member
Well guys, in Sealine spirit, we should try and educate these guys the benefits of looking after our marine resources. That is the dream, in reality these guys shortsightedness are shooting themselves in the foot and are risking the sustainability of their career, whether hungry, mouths to feed or whatever, it really does not matter. In the long run, this reasoning and attitude will become irrelevant.
Once the provincial and national lawmakers and researchers, looking after marine resources are made aware, there will be more than 1 way to make everybody including those who defend the actions suffer for the mindless actions by these guys. I recall a thread by Tuna not so long ago about Robberg being closed for fishing and everybody started crying about a lost venue. The restrictions that was put in place on fishing in the Breede River is another. The closure for vehicles on Macassar beach is another one. All this happenned in 1 year. Mark my words, the list will become ever longer and longer and the sad thing is, the guys that will suffer are all fishermen including commercials, whether you are conservation minded or not. More fishing spots will close this year and more MPA's will sprung up and all this because of the "I can because I am allowed to" attitude of some fishermen. Or even maximum length restrictions or whatever. Fishermen are their own worst enemies but ironically everybody and sundry are blamed.
When one fisherman tries to "educate" another fisherman in the error of his ways, name calling takes place and issues become personal.
On another note, professional hunters are of the opinion that old trophy animals do not breed anymore and that is why they are hunted and I posed this statement to a group of vets, professionals who are designated to look after the well being of game on big game hunting farms, and I was told that the statement is not true. Old trophy animals do breed just as well and even better until they die if given the opportunity but younger trophy animals who are in the prime of their life oust the older bulls because they are still young. This also does not mean that the younger bull has better genes than the older bull, all it means is that ageing has caught up with the older trophy bull. Therefore, I would like to see scientific evidence that marine animals differ from land animals when it comes to breeding.
Tuna has given this type of behaviour a name and I happen to agree with him 100%.
Once the provincial and national lawmakers and researchers, looking after marine resources are made aware, there will be more than 1 way to make everybody including those who defend the actions suffer for the mindless actions by these guys. I recall a thread by Tuna not so long ago about Robberg being closed for fishing and everybody started crying about a lost venue. The restrictions that was put in place on fishing in the Breede River is another. The closure for vehicles on Macassar beach is another one. All this happenned in 1 year. Mark my words, the list will become ever longer and longer and the sad thing is, the guys that will suffer are all fishermen including commercials, whether you are conservation minded or not. More fishing spots will close this year and more MPA's will sprung up and all this because of the "I can because I am allowed to" attitude of some fishermen. Or even maximum length restrictions or whatever. Fishermen are their own worst enemies but ironically everybody and sundry are blamed.
When one fisherman tries to "educate" another fisherman in the error of his ways, name calling takes place and issues become personal.
On another note, professional hunters are of the opinion that old trophy animals do not breed anymore and that is why they are hunted and I posed this statement to a group of vets, professionals who are designated to look after the well being of game on big game hunting farms, and I was told that the statement is not true. Old trophy animals do breed just as well and even better until they die if given the opportunity but younger trophy animals who are in the prime of their life oust the older bulls because they are still young. This also does not mean that the younger bull has better genes than the older bull, all it means is that ageing has caught up with the older trophy bull. Therefore, I would like to see scientific evidence that marine animals differ from land animals when it comes to breeding.
Tuna has given this type of behaviour a name and I happen to agree with him 100%.
Nu-Fin-To-Do
New member
I do not know how this picture came on this forum , but I was one of the anglers involved with this catch. I a not a commercial and we were 5 people on the boat ,my wife and 2 boys aged 13 and 16 years. I do not know why you are so upset with this catch - all the fish were between 9 and 13 Kg ,3 of them were over 110 cm, this is Silver Cob and not Dusky Cob there were 22 fish caught (5 per person) and yes I could have stayed and caught more !!!! You should stop calling it a slaughter outside Witsand if you do not have the facts ,your uniformed bull shit comments is the reason why I do not visit this site anymore !!! I spend thousands of rands to go fish and most of the time come back with no fish or very little, the one day I do get some fish and take a big risk coming through the bar at 22H30 I get shit comments like this ,I filleted the fish and went around Witsand giving older people and people without the means the heads and rest to cook of to make fishcakes , I did not sell one fish ,so get off your mighty horse and go and ... you know what to yourself !!! Have a lovely weekend
Inky Squid
Active member
Mike Smith
Sealiner
Good thing I did not do a report on the Henties trip! Or maybe I should and just post pictures of the desert and dunes and the water! 
From what I can see the catch was within legal limits.
If I can make one comment, take the Namibian limit on Cob into account for recreational fisherman, 10 fish per day per person, minimum size 40cm, but you may only keep 2 fish above 70cm in length. Source
In the South African context, we are allowed 5 Cob per day per person, so make it just 1 out of the 5 allowed to be over 70cm or a size still yet to be determined by the Scientists. However I am in disagreement with the Namibian minimum size, it should be 30 or 35cm. Not knowing the minimum size limit in South Africa, it should be the same in my opinion for two reasons, A cob takes a short period of time to grow to 30cm in length, but takes proportionally in time measured quite a while longer to grow from 30 to 40cm. *****
Catch the smaller Cob and release the bigger Cob, they also taste a lot nicer, at least the Namibian ones do.
It can be win win for everybody, you get to play the big fish and conserve those as they apparently breed more and keep the small ones to eat. The resource would be more sustainable.
Of course commercial fishing throws all my theories out of whack when it comes to the big fish, 70cm plus.
***This phenomena was discovered by the people farming Cob, easy to grow a Cob to 30cm, but uneconomical because of the time factor vs cost to allow it to grow to 40cm which I think was or still is the legal limit in South Africa.
If I can make one comment, take the Namibian limit on Cob into account for recreational fisherman, 10 fish per day per person, minimum size 40cm, but you may only keep 2 fish above 70cm in length. Source
In the South African context, we are allowed 5 Cob per day per person, so make it just 1 out of the 5 allowed to be over 70cm or a size still yet to be determined by the Scientists. However I am in disagreement with the Namibian minimum size, it should be 30 or 35cm. Not knowing the minimum size limit in South Africa, it should be the same in my opinion for two reasons, A cob takes a short period of time to grow to 30cm in length, but takes proportionally in time measured quite a while longer to grow from 30 to 40cm. *****
Catch the smaller Cob and release the bigger Cob, they also taste a lot nicer, at least the Namibian ones do.
It can be win win for everybody, you get to play the big fish and conserve those as they apparently breed more and keep the small ones to eat. The resource would be more sustainable.
Of course commercial fishing throws all my theories out of whack when it comes to the big fish, 70cm plus.
***This phenomena was discovered by the people farming Cob, easy to grow a Cob to 30cm, but uneconomical because of the time factor vs cost to allow it to grow to 40cm which I think was or still is the legal limit in South Africa.
Dr halibut hoffman wrote:
i dont believe a word that comes out of scientists mouths sometimes. I think they are proven wrong more times than not. My opinion. I really dont think the fishstocks are in such great difficulty as they make it out to be...sometimes there IS proof of this in minor ways.
i dont believe a word that comes out of scientists mouths sometimes. I think they are proven wrong more times than not. My opinion. I really dont think the fishstocks are in such great difficulty as they make it out to be...sometimes there IS proof of this in minor ways.