Banning the removal of Sandvlei fish

[Chloe]

http://www.zandvleitrust.org.za/pdf/zvt-newsletter%20aug%202012.pdf

If you read the first part it would explain why the mouth is kept closed... but I do agree catch and release should seriously be considered if they ca'nt keep the mouth open at all times. At least give the fish some sort of chance to survive!!
I mean if you're not going to eat it why take it?

I drive past there on a nightly basis and almost every night there's some idiot(sometimes even 4 or 5) with cast nets or prawn pumps.

 

[jb2]

RobinF wrote:

Guys, who would support the enforcement of a strictly catch and release policy at Sandvlei? I realise that not everyone will obide by it, but let's be honest, only a moron would actually eat a Sandvlei Leerie anyway.

Catch and release is getting more and more popular and I can only imagine what treasure we will have there in the future if we have a catch and release policy there.

Families would have endless fun with their kids catching fish that are in abundance, and the little one's will learn about conservation. I'm seriously thinking of raising that with the authorities, do I have support or am I alone here?

Hi Robin

As always I applaud your enthusiasm in trying to find ways to further conservation.

I am also intrigued by your need to take on restrictions in sweeping terms.  You don't have to wear your hairshirt every day. Nor do you have to scream "Mea culpa! or if you are a fan of Coleridge "SHREVE ME, SHREVE ME!"

Not everything that Captain Watson says is true.

Live! It is Ok You have done nothing wrong.

 be robust

A call for a ban on keeping fish has little meaning when advocated without reference to individual species.

It might help to zoom out and look at the specific species.

The first thing is that all the invasive and alien fish should go. This includes the barbel and the carp.

The barbel eat the endangered leopard toad so it would be best to catch and kill barbel.

Carp mess up water turbidity and make it hard for other fish to compete.

Tilapia are also invasive so catch and kill rather than catch and release.

Leeries are good for sport so why not catch and release.

White stump are not in big danger and once they have reached adult size they could be kept as well.

Elf? If they are big then catch and keep but strictly enforce size restrictions.

Mullet. no sense in having catch and release. They are widely distributed and are not under huge pressure so catch and keep should be fine.

Glassies (atherina??) I like the way that they nibble on the skin on my feet and are so tiny that I am not sure what I would do with them so I say leave alone.

Moonies. I haven't caught any yet but I am still trying.

Streepharder /  springer also widely distributed and I don't think that they are under huge threat.

Cape Stump. Most are too small to be kept so I would say that the size restriction is also a ban on keeping.

White steenbras  leave to grow a bit more

Now that I have through the list, it looks like a lot more killing of invasives would be handy.

The Zandvlei reserve manager said that after their "barbel bash" where they killed a whole lot of barbel. leopard toad bounced back. (Does anyone remember Erica? She was there before Cassie?

 

 

[RobinF]

Hi JB2,

I agree with you, most of what you've said makes all the sense in the world.

However, let me clear this up: a total ban is not ideal. I want to fish there with my son. I want to see his little smile when he releases his catch and looks at me with pride in his little eyes.

The problem is that if we become specie specific with a catch and release policy, people will never adhere to it. It must be a broader policy.

As for the invasive species, this I did not know about. (One solution is have a Barbel fishing competition....that will reduce the population)

I emailed the Zandvlei trust and am yet to receive a reply regarding what they have done so far.

 

[RobinF]

Oh and by the way, the good Captain might be a smooth operator, but he has done for our global marine life what Greenpeace and the like could never have. (Not knocking Greenpeace, just saying.....)

 

[jb2]

RobinF wrote:

Oh and by the way, the good Captain might be a smooth operator, but he has done for our global marine life what Greenpeace and the like could never have. (Not knocking Greenpeace, just saying.....)

Hi Robin

The truth about Captain Watson is a story for a whole other thread on Sealine.

He is involved in show business and not conservation.

Try to find the Wikileaks where there is discussion about the main obstacle to removing Japanese whaling is the presence of Sea Shepherd. If the Japanese were to back out under presssure, it would be politically damaging so there is little chance of them backing out while Sea Shepherd is there.

All that really  matters is that Peter Betheune (sp.??) pleaded guilty in Japan.

He was Sea Shepherd's main guy and when it all came down to it the organisation snivelled about how wrong they were.

Obviously the "Captain" was forced to disown him and it became acrimonious.

I remember when the "Farley Mowat" called at Cape Town and lied to the local authorities that the crewing of the vessel was up to international safety standards.

SAMSA asked to see the boats papers and tied them up until they got their safety and crewing up to spec. The boat defied the order and illegally left Cape Town.

Watson then said that there is a grand cabal orchestrated by the Japanese to keep his boat in Cape Town.

if you have ever worked with the local authorities you would find them "less then sympathetic" to the Asain foreign fleets.

Watson could not have known this when he told that particular lie which made it all the more funny. I phoned the local SAMSA guys and ragged them for weeks that they were "agents of the Japanese government".

 

 

[jb2]

RobinF wrote:

Hi JB2,

I agree with you, most of what you've said makes all the sense in the world.

However, let me clear this up: a total ban is not ideal. I want to fish there with my son. I want to see his little smile when he releases his catch and looks at me with pride in his little eyes.

The problem is that if we become specie specific with a catch and release policy, people will never adhere to it. It must be a broader policy.

As for the invasive species, this I did not know about. (One solution is have a Barbel fishing competition....that will reduce the population)

I emailed the Zandvlei trust and am yet to receive a reply regarding what they have done so far.

Hi Robin

Let me summarise your position and then tell me if it makes sense.

"The species composition of Zandvlei is too varied to allow for a complete catch and release ban but we should impose it anyway even though it is probably the wrong management tool"

If I have misunderstood then please let me know.

 

 

[RobinF]

Unless there is scientific proof that enforcing a catch and release policy would 'hurt' the Vlei, then I would say yes.

 

[jb2]

RobinF wrote:

Unless there is scientific proof that enforcing a catch and release policy would 'hurt' the Vlei, then I would say yes.

Hi Robin

We already know that returing the invasives is a problem and currently illegal so yes it would hurt.

 

[RobinF]

If you are suggesting that Sea Shepherd pull out of the Southern Whale Sanctuary, that is insane. They will always have the odds against them, the Whalers have their government intervening and supporting them. So what if they have to cut corners to protect the marine life, so long as they are the David in this battle, they will always have to fight just to survive.

I am utterly gutted at the thought of whales and dolphins being slaughtered, so no matter what you say about how Sea Shepherd do what they do, it won't change my opinion. I support them 100%.

But now we are changing the thread....

 

[jb2]

RobinF wrote:

If you are suggesting that Sea Shepherd pull out of the Southern Whale Sanctuary, that is insane. They will always have the odds against them, the Whalers have their government intervening and supporting them. So what if they have to cut corners to protect the marine life, so long as they are the David in this battle, they will always have to fight just to survive.

I am utterly gutted at the thought of whales and dolphins being slaughtered, so no matter what you say about how Sea Shepherd do what they do, it won't change my opinion. I support them 100%.

But now we are changing the thread....

Hi Robin

The Japanese will not leave as long as Sea Shepherd are there so inadvertently, they are ensuring a continued Japanese presence in the Southern Ocean.

I know that this sounds perverse but it is part of the real politik of how Japan is likely to cease whaliing.

If the skipper of the Sea Shepherd boats says that they are acting illegally then I believe him.

That was the gamble of having Betheune go on board the whaling vessel.

Have you ever stopped to wonder why Sea Shepherd is not doing anything about Scandinavian whaling?

The answer is that those whalers will climb onto Watson's boats and stuff him up.

Remember that those northern whalers are all 6 foot 3 and have been feasting on whale steaks for weeks and will be full of "hembrent" aquavit.  Good for degreasing engines and also for drinking.

The vegans on Watson's boat won't stand a chance.

(I hope that you realise that I have my tongue in my cheek just a little bit!)

 

 

[Trophy]

Hiya Guys,

...Special mention to JB2, great that you are adding 'comment' to a non trek net thread!

I would agree to a ban on fish removal from just about all Estuary fish. Its clear that no controls are in place and our government has no clue on how to manage on paper or on foot.

Guys mentioned the systems in the EC and the Swartkops specifically. No expert on the river...yet, but let me tell you that its days are numbered with over fishing, bait collection, gill netting, raw sewerage outlets, garbage, idustrial waste...and the list goes on.

My last visit saw countless illegal activity and the erection of huge signs to notify folks that the water is highly polluted.

Swartkops...only a matter of time for this system now.

 

[Marthin]

I would say the biggest concern for a number of these estuaries is raw sewerage.

It is the main reason those fish ran down in Sandvlei and got slaughtered.

Definition also posted a year or so ago... fish dying in kleinbrak, sewerage.

All the other stuff combined i think doesnt reach polution, coz polution just wipes out alles.

I still don't understand something, JB perhaps you can shed some light. If a private company for example was to come down to sandvlei and dump their toxic waste into sandvlei, first let's even say it was accidental, surely there are massive fined imposed? I remember a fuel leak at an airport that lead to a massive fine imposed?

Surely Government can be hauled over the same coals?

 

[tackle whore]

Its interesting to read all the posts about the vlei . We worked really hard to move the kob out of the vlei and stop the guys killing alot of the adult fish it took the news papers reporting on the state of the vlei to get the powers to be off their arses . We had public meetings, attended by all that were interested in sorting out the problems of the vlei with very good input from a few very respected and experienced persons that were on hand through the whole saga .Up till this dat 8/2/13 nothing has come of those meetings .Raw sewage is still flowing into the vlei and is the real cause of the problems of the fish die off , the mouth that was supposed to be opened on spring tides has not been opened, the argument that the mouth could not be opened to release the fish as the level of water would drop too low for the retaining walls in the marina all went to shit when the mouth was left open for over a month only to be closed when we complained about the low water level on the sand bank at the foot bridge .
Personally its piontless to try and remove the alien species if you cant stop the pollution , its pointless having a catch and release system when it cant be enforced ands when the persons enforcing it dont have the backing of the City of Cape Town and have their cards revoked or only check licences of the guys fishing with rods and bypass the local