Admiral Powercat 23’
- Thread starter chrisjbremner
- Start date
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
Ouch..That is nasty..and not a good advertisement either! 2014..jeepers!
chrisjbremner
New member
Yeah not recommended to buy for sure.
Thing is I love the boat so it’s fix and carry on.
Thing is I love the boat so it’s fix and carry on.
well the transom looks quite thin for a 23 footer!!!!
wood has been the cheapest option to get width.
a full fibre glass transom will last forever.
see if you can get it done right.
wood has been the cheapest option to get width.
a full fibre glass transom will last forever.
see if you can get it done right.
chrisjbremner
New member
I asked the question prior to purchase why give only a one year guarantee.
The plausible answer was that a lot of boats are taken off-road to Mozambique.
I now believe that at no stage of the build did Alan Geeling actually set eyes on the boat.
Everything was subbed out with consequent breakdown in quality control.
Oh well.
UPDATE 06/07/20
Just had an email from Alan Geeling at Powercat and he offers assurance that it is only the engine installation which is subbed out.
He also insists that he is present at all stages of the build.
I copied Alan the link when I first posted this so he is fully aware of the situation and has the option to respond here on the forum.
My bet would be the engine installer will be the fall guy for this one.
The plausible answer was that a lot of boats are taken off-road to Mozambique.
I now believe that at no stage of the build did Alan Geeling actually set eyes on the boat.
Everything was subbed out with consequent breakdown in quality control.
Oh well.
UPDATE 06/07/20
Just had an email from Alan Geeling at Powercat and he offers assurance that it is only the engine installation which is subbed out.
He also insists that he is present at all stages of the build.
I copied Alan the link when I first posted this so he is fully aware of the situation and has the option to respond here on the forum.
My bet would be the engine installer will be the fall guy for this one.
Limpopoking
Sealiner
That's a shocker... Regardless of the motor installation, quality marine ply should not have deteriorated that fast. It's virtually impossible to keep water out from glass encapsulated wood... With Polyester or epoxy, and particularly on a transom that takes the thrust (and occasional bang) from the motors. One needs to start out with a highly resistant timber species and I wouldn't say that 6 years is vaguely up to scratch.
chrisjbremner
New member
They used a timber species commonly known as cardboard.
Admiral Powercats
New member
Hi, all. Chris advised me via email link, post the event, of the transom condition.
It might be useful for members to know that we are busy with boat number 046 at our factory and in the past 10 years have had 2 post-delivery issues from clients after shipping. One was an electrical wiring issue and the other, unfortunately, cracking gelcoat in the deck radius on Chris's boat some years ago. In that instance, we sent a CE inspector to look at the boat in Thailand and recommend an approach. Chris then appointed a local contractor to attend and we covered the costs involved.
We only use certified materials (LLyods, DNV etc.) and follow the relevant ISO / SANS standards as required.
The transom in question is made from a composite of glass fibre and LLyods approved Marine Ply laminates.
There is probably little to be gained by debating this further in the forum and I offer that interested members contact me directly on alan@admiralpowercats.com where we can interact and learn from this failure.
Alan Geeling
It might be useful for members to know that we are busy with boat number 046 at our factory and in the past 10 years have had 2 post-delivery issues from clients after shipping. One was an electrical wiring issue and the other, unfortunately, cracking gelcoat in the deck radius on Chris's boat some years ago. In that instance, we sent a CE inspector to look at the boat in Thailand and recommend an approach. Chris then appointed a local contractor to attend and we covered the costs involved.
We only use certified materials (LLyods, DNV etc.) and follow the relevant ISO / SANS standards as required.
The transom in question is made from a composite of glass fibre and LLyods approved Marine Ply laminates.
There is probably little to be gained by debating this further in the forum and I offer that interested members contact me directly on alan@admiralpowercats.com where we can interact and learn from this failure.
Alan Geeling
chrisjbremner
New member
Oh OK so we will just bury it then.
No offer of any financial compensation for the repair costs then?
I feel for the buyer of boat 046.
What has been changed since my build?
I hope Mr Geeling will have the decency to contact the other 044 Powercat owners with a transom check advisory.
Where are the other 044 owners?
Hope they haven’t gone down with their boats.
I would advise Mr Geeling to put his Powercat boat moulds in long term storage as only a sucker is going to buy 047.
No offer of any financial compensation for the repair costs then?
I feel for the buyer of boat 046.
What has been changed since my build?
I hope Mr Geeling will have the decency to contact the other 044 Powercat owners with a transom check advisory.
Where are the other 044 owners?
Hope they haven’t gone down with their boats.
I would advise Mr Geeling to put his Powercat boat moulds in long term storage as only a sucker is going to buy 047.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
Well Chris keep us posted and keep it civil too..Powercats response seems a bit wanting from the outside perspective, I'll agree..
It is not really good advertising to leave up!?
To Alan.."There is probably little to be gained by debating this further in the forum "
I would really be interested in your reasoning here? From my perspective it would seem like you are the party with nothing to gain and everything to lose by not debating this further? I mean if chris has a valid case he can go to court and make a civil claim and recover his monies, you on the otherhand stand to loose future business by leaving it at this..but anyway that is just what it seems like from the outside..
Chris have you asked the guys on boatfishing.co.za what their opinions are? This is not the first time possible and potential bad workmanship has been brought up on open forum in SA, there have been more than one major legal threats and past battles that was eventually settled in a precedent setting case that miles won with costs settlement as far as I know and egg all over the face of more than one boatbuilder, so it entirely worthwhile for boatbuilders to engage positively with forums rather than ignore them or otherwise, when their workmanship comes into question.. It is either good or bad workmanship and the truth tends to come out in open forum when things stay civil and open minded and trolls stay away, often from what I've seen from the sidelines the bad workmanship does not originate with the builder, but sometimes it does.In an open forum it all tends to come out..
It is not really good advertising to leave up!?
To Alan.."There is probably little to be gained by debating this further in the forum "
I would really be interested in your reasoning here? From my perspective it would seem like you are the party with nothing to gain and everything to lose by not debating this further? I mean if chris has a valid case he can go to court and make a civil claim and recover his monies, you on the otherhand stand to loose future business by leaving it at this..but anyway that is just what it seems like from the outside..
Chris have you asked the guys on boatfishing.co.za what their opinions are? This is not the first time possible and potential bad workmanship has been brought up on open forum in SA, there have been more than one major legal threats and past battles that was eventually settled in a precedent setting case that miles won with costs settlement as far as I know and egg all over the face of more than one boatbuilder, so it entirely worthwhile for boatbuilders to engage positively with forums rather than ignore them or otherwise, when their workmanship comes into question.. It is either good or bad workmanship and the truth tends to come out in open forum when things stay civil and open minded and trolls stay away, often from what I've seen from the sidelines the bad workmanship does not originate with the builder, but sometimes it does.In an open forum it all tends to come out..
Limpopoking
Sealiner
But I also believe this is not the place to discuss financial settlements.
chrisjbremner
New member
Hey point taken.
I am going to cool off and take a break for a while.
Thanks for the input meantime.
I am going to cool off and take a break for a while.
Thanks for the input meantime.
Dr halibut hoffman
Moderator
The last time this sort of thing was brought up in forum it got REAAAAAAALLY ugly! Ended up in high court as far as i know, with personal lawsuits against another forums members and demands of IP's and personal information getting released, and all ended up with the judge siding on behalf of the forum members and forum rather than on the boatbuilders' and saying that he could see by posts over the years that they were more than qualified to have technical opinions and that their opinions were valid and protected by freedom of speech and not slanderous as they were justified and the boatbuilder had to pay for the whole show, and to fix boats, and lost business..Though I think they learned from the experience and are still in business successfully and have a good fanbase. This was not the only legal forum/boatbuilder mess either so lets make sure this doesn't head in that direction.
But ja it doesn't pay to stick ones head in the sand, and also it does pay for all parties to keep it civil..and LK, agreed this also not the place for discussing financial compensation etc..Sure after pursuing the normal channels, you can brag all you want about them sorting you out and what stars they are, as fishing goods manufacturers have done for me in past and have earned my respect for standing by their products, or you can moan later all you want here about how slack they are and how much its cost you and warn others, if it is justified..but Sealine also the same time can't be used to make threats to anyone or get involved in anyone's legal issues like this..Im not talking here for sealine either, this is just my opinion.
But ja keep us posted!
:
op::op::op:
But ja it doesn't pay to stick ones head in the sand, and also it does pay for all parties to keep it civil..and LK, agreed this also not the place for discussing financial compensation etc..Sure after pursuing the normal channels, you can brag all you want about them sorting you out and what stars they are, as fishing goods manufacturers have done for me in past and have earned my respect for standing by their products, or you can moan later all you want here about how slack they are and how much its cost you and warn others, if it is justified..but Sealine also the same time can't be used to make threats to anyone or get involved in anyone's legal issues like this..Im not talking here for sealine either, this is just my opinion.
But ja keep us posted!
:
op::op::op:we all can learn from this.
lets keep it civil. all involved should try and cool off before insults are thrown which will bring us no where.
my opinion of a thin transom still stands until we have a picture which indicates the width and that the width is acceptable for the weight of the motors.
we are all only human.
we all make mistakes.
we all learn from our mistakes.
how we rectify the mistakes is what counts.
we cannot point the fingers only to boat builders.
we have engine mounters too
don't forget about the fish finder fitters.
or the stain less steel fitters.
what exactly went wrong here, is not clear.
when was the fault/ damage observed is not clear.
and when was it reported is not clear.
what actions were taken to remedy the faults?
So Chris, please do advise on the aspects above.
Alan, you can gain much more here.
we all should be proud of what we do and there is nothing when standing up, behind your product.
lets not get off the wrong foot here as it will take us no where.
lets keep it civil. all involved should try and cool off before insults are thrown which will bring us no where.
my opinion of a thin transom still stands until we have a picture which indicates the width and that the width is acceptable for the weight of the motors.
we are all only human.
we all make mistakes.
we all learn from our mistakes.
how we rectify the mistakes is what counts.
we cannot point the fingers only to boat builders.
we have engine mounters too
don't forget about the fish finder fitters.
or the stain less steel fitters.
what exactly went wrong here, is not clear.
when was the fault/ damage observed is not clear.
and when was it reported is not clear.
what actions were taken to remedy the faults?
So Chris, please do advise on the aspects above.
Alan, you can gain much more here.
we all should be proud of what we do and there is nothing when standing up, behind your product.
lets not get off the wrong foot here as it will take us no where.
chrisjbremner
New member
Refer back to my first post.
The transom on my Admiral Powercat has rotted out after less than 6 years.
OK it is what it is and we shall move on.
Thanks
Update 08/07/2020.
The transom thickness is 60mm.
I didn’t pay the money to the engine fitter or the fish finder fitter.
I paid the money to Admiral Power Cats so they are responsible in my book.
It’s all down to a lack of quality control which is also comes under Admirals remit.
Thanks and enjoy your day.
The transom on my Admiral Powercat has rotted out after less than 6 years.
OK it is what it is and we shall move on.
Thanks
Update 08/07/2020.
The transom thickness is 60mm.
I didn’t pay the money to the engine fitter or the fish finder fitter.
I paid the money to Admiral Power Cats so they are responsible in my book.
It’s all down to a lack of quality control which is also comes under Admirals remit.
Thanks and enjoy your day.
Hi Chris.
Please note that we are affording you the opportunity
to lay your cards bare for all to see.
that is why we are requesting all of the info.
Your initial post borders on slandering a boat builder name due to not all of the info given.
Initially i thought that this boat was in the UK.
where it currently is, is unknown.
How it got there is unknown.
what engines are currently fitted on the vessel and what is the history regarding the vessel.
Please note, that we will also be in contact with the boat builder themselves in order to obtain their side of the story.
When we have all of the info as needed, then we will decide if the tread will remain on the forum for all to see.
To other forum users:
Please refrain from making posts that is not in line with the forum rules.
We all have the right to post our opinion on facts given thus far.
it is great, to have the boat builder currently part of the discussion.
they might not want to use the forum to remedy the situation currently as they might have specific reasons for it.
Please note that we are affording you the opportunity
to lay your cards bare for all to see.
that is why we are requesting all of the info.
Your initial post borders on slandering a boat builder name due to not all of the info given.
Initially i thought that this boat was in the UK.
where it currently is, is unknown.
How it got there is unknown.
what engines are currently fitted on the vessel and what is the history regarding the vessel.
Please note, that we will also be in contact with the boat builder themselves in order to obtain their side of the story.
When we have all of the info as needed, then we will decide if the tread will remain on the forum for all to see.
To other forum users:
Please refrain from making posts that is not in line with the forum rules.
We all have the right to post our opinion on facts given thus far.
it is great, to have the boat builder currently part of the discussion.
they might not want to use the forum to remedy the situation currently as they might have specific reasons for it.
chrisjbremner
New member
Good Day and please excuse my lack of good manners.
I am originally from Aberdeen in UK.
I worked 2 years on the Mossgas project in Mossel Bay around 2000.
I fell in love with S.A.and have many friends and still visit when possible.
When I retired in 2014 after 35 years in the oil and gas industry we moved to Thailand.
My dream was to own an SA built ski boat so I started making plans.
Long story but when I saw a picture of an Admiral Powercat neatly installed in a shipping container then that worked for me.
The new boat arrived in Thailand in October 2014 on the container vessel Anderson Bridge which I tracked every minute from SA.
When I opened the doors of the container to take delivery it was love at first sight.
Never mind that the boat had moved a bit inside the container and the jockey wheel was smashed.
Off we went into the sometimes rather choppy Gulf of Thailand.
When one of the bilge pumps kicked it was obvious that water was getting into the boat somehow.
Upon investigation it was established that there was no seal between the control consol and the deck.Water was finding its way down through the service duct in the consol.
Again this was an easy fix not a big deal carry on fishing.
Around 2016 spider cracks appeared nearly all around the deck where the deck meets the side walls.
This was repaired here in Thailand at Admiral cost.
The next issue I have had was when I installed anti rub strips on the bottom of the keels.As I was drilling holes there was water observed flowing out of the holes.
Can’t be 100% certain on the source but I can say that there was insufficient sealant where the hydro fin enters the hulls.
Again easily fixed and carry on.
The engines are now at 800 hrs and I have a very stable and comfortable fishing platform.
I am looking forward to the next 800hrs as soon as I get the transom fixed.
I appreciate very much that I have had the chance to air my views on this fair and impartial forum which is run by decent people for the benefit of decent people.
Thank You
I am originally from Aberdeen in UK.
I worked 2 years on the Mossgas project in Mossel Bay around 2000.
I fell in love with S.A.and have many friends and still visit when possible.
When I retired in 2014 after 35 years in the oil and gas industry we moved to Thailand.
My dream was to own an SA built ski boat so I started making plans.
Long story but when I saw a picture of an Admiral Powercat neatly installed in a shipping container then that worked for me.
The new boat arrived in Thailand in October 2014 on the container vessel Anderson Bridge which I tracked every minute from SA.
When I opened the doors of the container to take delivery it was love at first sight.
Never mind that the boat had moved a bit inside the container and the jockey wheel was smashed.
Off we went into the sometimes rather choppy Gulf of Thailand.
When one of the bilge pumps kicked it was obvious that water was getting into the boat somehow.
Upon investigation it was established that there was no seal between the control consol and the deck.Water was finding its way down through the service duct in the consol.
Again this was an easy fix not a big deal carry on fishing.
Around 2016 spider cracks appeared nearly all around the deck where the deck meets the side walls.
This was repaired here in Thailand at Admiral cost.
The next issue I have had was when I installed anti rub strips on the bottom of the keels.As I was drilling holes there was water observed flowing out of the holes.
Can’t be 100% certain on the source but I can say that there was insufficient sealant where the hydro fin enters the hulls.
Again easily fixed and carry on.
The engines are now at 800 hrs and I have a very stable and comfortable fishing platform.
I am looking forward to the next 800hrs as soon as I get the transom fixed.
I appreciate very much that I have had the chance to air my views on this fair and impartial forum which is run by decent people for the benefit of decent people.
Thank You
Ok guys.
this tread will be locked for now.
i have good reason for it.
Chris, if you have more detail, you can pm me.
i will add it then to your last post, but is it not too late?
i have also spoken to the boat manufacturer and i obtained some more info and have identified other aspects which one needs to consider before one can come to a conclusion regarding the matter.
i will post my findings in due course and you are then welcome to debate the matter further.
Regards
Pottie
this tread will be locked for now.
i have good reason for it.
Chris, if you have more detail, you can pm me.
i will add it then to your last post, but is it not too late?
i have also spoken to the boat manufacturer and i obtained some more info and have identified other aspects which one needs to consider before one can come to a conclusion regarding the matter.
i will post my findings in due course and you are then welcome to debate the matter further.
Regards
Pottie