New boat safety regs.

[MOGGY]

 

I suppose it is not a state secret, but the problem I see is that the certificates issued by recognised boat builders are non conforming, because they do not have a diagram, showing the distribution.

The SAMSA buoyancy calculation presented in the small vessel survey courses, run across the country over the past 3 months, refers.

 

As you will be aware, the 60% rule calculation is the theoretical method regarded by SAMSA as being sufficient to determine whether category B to E vessels will comply with the Merchant Shipping (National Small Vessel Safety) Regulations, 2007 and consists of two (2) parts:

 Part 1 - Determine sufficient buoyancy

 Part 2 - Confirm level flotation

Part 1 of the calculation is well proven as a means to confirm sufficient buoyancy provision on small boats, however, Part 2 (level flotation) is regarded as being slightly conservative (on the safe side). ie. it is considered that small boats may achieve acceptable level flotation with less built-in buoyancy provided in the aft third of the boat than that which is required by the calculation.

 

SAMSA has generated numerous models to test and cross check the calculation but will only consider relaxation of the requirement on a case-by-case basis at this stage.

 

Surveyors/Safety officers are accordingly advised that they should not reject buoyancy certificates outright in the event that built-in buoyancy provided on a vessel is in excess of 60% but is shown by calculation not to be sufficient in the aft third of the vessel (for level flotation). In these cases surveyors/safety officers are requested to forward the certificate and supporting calculations to the writer for evaluation. The information will accordingly be evaluated on a case-by-case basis and the surveyor/safety officer advised of the determination. Surveyors/safety officers submitting case studies must submit sketch(es) showing:

a.     The vessels principal particulars (Length, Breadth, Depth)

b.     The vessel lightweight and lightweight distribution in the event that an even distribution assumption is not considered to be correct.

c.     The built-in buoyancy type and distribution

ie.  A draft buoyancy certificate should be provided with supporting information highlighting apparent short-comings for level flotation  

 

Once sufficient body of evidence has been gathered, SAMSA will determine whether a less conservative standard may be accepted and advise all in a structured manner.

 

Your constructive input towards prompt resolvement of the above will be appreciated, particularly in light of the coming festive season.

 

 

 

[pork pie]

How does all this bouyancy regs. affect a semi rigid that doesn't use floatation but 6 seperate compartments of air in the tubes. It doesn't have foam to absorb water??????????

 

[MOGGY]

That is why I have a RIB now.

The flotation is in the pontoons and it mus have a minnimum of three seperate chambers and thevessel must stay afloat when two of the chambers are deflated.

My RIB's pontoons don't even touch the water.

 

[Didi]

I have some more questions,
Why is it not a requirement to have water in your capsize bottle,if your boat capsize your water lying on your boat will most deffinitly be gone.

Why is it not a requirement to permanetly tie the end of your anchor rope to your boat,if you capsize the weight of your anchor will break your hatch and gone is your anchor and you will be floating all over the place.

Why is it not required to permanently tie your capsize rope to your boat,this is actualy not so easy to tie when you are in the water upside down let alone finding your rope.

The drogue's trip line will cause it to trip itself if it start rotating,it is however not the difficult to retrieve wihtout a trip line.

Why is it not a requirement to have a cell phone or radio in your safety bottle.At least you can communicate when you are in trouble and do not rely on flares only.

Some other stuff which would be handy in your safety bottle if you had to spent a day or two on the belly of your boat:
Suntan lotion
Some dried fruit
A small fishing tackle kit
Diving goggles-to use to dive under your boat to retrieve stuff(salt water in your eyes is not so lekker)

I hope and pray that none of us ever need to use our safety equipment.

Regards

 

[fishalitis]

BEen there got the badge and some excellent ideas Didi. Goggles would have been great and my cell was a gonner. We were at anker so no hassles there. Agree with u about capsize rope.  we found line floating which we tied. Water and a couple of those thermal blankets would be a good idea, They fold up real small. This bouyancy thing is obviously heading to some new form of money making for some n ew seaworthy centre

 

[MOGGY]

Didi wrote:

I have some more questions,
Why is it not a requirement to have water in your capsize bottle,if your boat capsize your water lying on your boat will most deffinitly be gone.

Why is it not a requirement to permanetly tie the end of your anchor rope to your boat,if you capsize the weight of your anchor will break your hatch and gone is your anchor and you will be floating all over the place.

Why is it not required to permanently tie your capsize rope to your boat,this is actualy not so easy to tie when you are in the water upside down let alone finding your rope.

The drogue's trip line will cause it to trip itself if it start rotating,it is however not the difficult to retrieve wihtout a trip line.

Why is it not a requirement to have a cell phone or radio in your safety bottle.At least you can communicate when you are in trouble and do not rely on flares only.

Some other stuff which would be handy in your safety bottle if you had to spent a day or two on the belly of your boat:
Suntan lotion
Some dried fruit
A small fishing tackle kit
Diving goggles-to use to dive under your boat to retrieve stuff(salt water in your eyes is not so lekker)

I hope and pray that none of us ever need to use our safety equipment.

Regards

The requirementsfor the COF are MINNIMUM REQUIREMENTS.

You as a skipper can add to the list as you please.

Ona mono hull, please explain how you would permanently fix the capsize rope.  It is suuposed to be attached to you capsize bottle, which should be tied to your vessel.

A drogue is only required for surf launching.

 

[CLS]

Weighed my boat yesterday

 

[fishalitis]

Getting tired of all the hearsay and B$llshit on this thread so i phoned Samsa myself. Simple answer is no real changes stick to marine notice no 13 as closely as possible and you will be fine. They were indeed surprised to hear of all the opinions on these forums. You will find some individuals have a way of rattling cages to further theirs and their mates financial gains out of the average boater.

 

[CLS]

fishalitis wrote:

Getting tired of all the hearsay and B$llshit on this thread so i phoned Samsa myself. Simple answer is no real changes stick to marine notice no 13 as closely as possible and you will be fine. They were indeed surprised to hear of all the opinions on these forums. You will find some individuals have a way of rattling cages to further theirs and their mates financial gains out of the average boater.

Have you read the regulations ??

 

[MOGGY]

This is no heresay bull, but comes out of marine notice 13.

Who did you speak to at the PE office ?

Brian Colenut attended the course with me.

Read marine notice 13, or phone me and I will show you the course notes.

0836555801

 

[dugongboy]

fishalitis wrote:

Getting tired of all the hearsay and B$llshit on this thread so i phoned Samsa myself. Simple answer is no real changes stick to marine notice no 13 as closely as possible and you will be fine. They were indeed surprised to hear of all the opinions on these forums. You will find some individuals have a way of rattling cages to further theirs and their mates financial gains out of the average boater.

fishilitis, I started this thread and I hope that you are not refering to me as some individual rattling cages to further me and my mates financial gains!!!

Do you think that I typed the front page of the 13 page booklet shown earlier.....sucked it out of my thumb??!!  As much as I wish it was, this is not hearsay and B$llshit and certainly not an opinion!!- they want to implement this throughout SA!!

I suggest you research the matter a bit more....maby start by reading this thread properly.

http://www.sealine.co.za/attachment.php?id=98567 

 

[fishalitis]

In africa we do like Africans. Klap some foam in and pay for the foam and pay someone to look the other way and give me a whatever i need. Simple as that.

 

[dugongboy]

fishalitis wrote:

In africa we do like Africans. Klap some foam in and pay for the foam and pay someone to look the other way and give me a whatever i need. Simple as that.

WTF?????????????Eish, rather not even try and answer bro????????
You sound like you may be corrupt???.......eish??

 

[fishalitis]

eish no my name is not corrupt but if our whole goverment was once in jail and they make the laws of the land (and sea) who are they fooling? Not me! Makes you think.

 

[fishalitis]

dugongboy wrote:

fishalitis wrote:

In africa we do like Africans. Klap some foam in and pay for the foam and pay someone to look the other way and give me a whatever i need. Simple as that.

WTF?????????????Eish, rather not even try and answer bro????????
You sound like you may be corrupt???.......eish??

Let me give you an example of a sticky situation. Lifejackets were being sold by various outlets some time back with a Samsa approval stamp on them. After some time Samsa informed all the outlets to remove the lifejackets from the shelves. Its a tricky one but u can guess that someone somewhere did a deal with a penguin posture. No my name is not corruption but.....

 

[fishalitis]

All this fuss about buoyancy but nothing about glass mentioned anywhere used in cabins. This is a huge one. Know of a massive lawsuite on the go in Natal when a 28ft Buttcat was hit by a wave where a holiday makers video showed an estimated two tons of H2O on deck and 16mm shatterprufe glass on the cabin shattered and cut a crew member to shreds.

 

[Frikkie Deysel]

It would be interesting to have a breakdown of how much of the money we pay for Certificate of Competency, Certificate of Fitness and now the Buoyancy certificate is going to whom. Don’t shoot me but the possible middlemen milking the cow include  SADSAA, SALTBAA, and how much ends up in the pockets of the surveyors and in the end also the Govt? I could be wrong about the two boating associations? Is there anyone that can shed some light on this?   
:fishn

 

[fishalitis]

Hey Didi

Saw some water pouches neatly vacuum packed in a parcel which can easily be stored in your capsize bottle especially for marine emergencies . Check it out at Viking safety equipment. They also have a floating rope which is ideal for capsize rope. I would rig it along the top of one of the gunnels and fasten it with small cable ties to safety rails which can be broken in an emergency to free it up and have it already tie to the stern eye. Its then easy to adjust the length if hull is upside down as bow eye will be exposed to tie other end and adjust length. Its about R90 for 30m and it floats. Will def be putting a pair of those swimming goggles in my safety bottle as well. Another idea for guys that wear specs is to put an old pair of specs in their pouch in your safety bottle too as thats the first thing i lost when the boat capsized. You tend to jump as far as possible away from the boat to stop the boat from rolling onto you. Call it instinct.

Cheers.

 

[MOGGY]

It is because of people who "klap in some foam" that the new training has happened.

If you think that SADSAA is behind the changes, then I would like some of the stuff you are smoking.

As a surveyor do you know how much abuse we take from individuals, when the laws change ?

I have totally stopped surveying boats and I know of a few ohers, who have also stopped, so sorry for you when you want a COF, go to SAMSA, with the same rules and pay your R 600 for a survey and another lot, if you fail and have to have it  re done.

 

 

[fishalitis]

MOGGY wrote:

It is because of people who "klap in some foam" that the new training has happened.

If you think that SADSAA is behind the changes, then I would like some of the stuff you are smoking.

As a surveyor do you know how much abuse we take from individuals, when the laws change ?

I have totally stopped surveying boats and I know of a few ohers, who have also stopped, so sorry for you when you want a COF, go to SAMSA, with the same rules and pay your R 600 for a survey and another lot, if you fail and have to have it  re done.

 

I will isue my own COF or bribe an official at a launch site

I spoke to a senior government official recently about the corruption. He said if you dont like it and cant handle the pace of the corruption then leave.