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Yamaha 85's demand?  Rate Topic 
 
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 Posted: Wed Jan 5th, 2022 07:27 am
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derMaaster
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Mana: 
We have two yamaha 85's, two-stroke on our indigo 600, we use it once a year in mozambique for diving and then 2 or three times during the year on a dam for boating.. they are in good condition and we look after them..
Question - what can they be sold for?  Who would like to buy them, is there demand for that spec yamaha engin?
Regards,

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 Posted: Thu Jan 6th, 2022 09:17 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Hang on to them!!!!
simplistic, bullet proof gas guzzlers

Just keep them, a set might be sold for anything from 30k to if you are lucky 60k

there will always be a demand for them, but some tend to believe 4 strokes is the way to go.

maybe its a image thing
a cost thing or a nature thing.

you should know they do like drinking gas, and for your amount of trips it does not make financial sense to upgrade to 4 strokes, unless you just want to splash some tom.

there is still a weight difference, between the 2x types.

so, are you thinking of "upgrading"

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 Posted: Mon Jan 10th, 2022 06:43 pm
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derMaaster
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Mana: 
Yes looking to "upgrade", the biggest issue being fuel cost. When we go for our once a year mozambique trips (I would like to go twice if possible), we do about 8 or 10 trips of 5 hours at sea, and 50km.  So those two 85's eats up money like nothing..
I guess it is easer to swallow spending an extra R150k to swop to two four strokes (second hand?) than to spend R10 000 per vacation on fuel, vs R5000?  .. I want to do more trips to the bigger, deeper far out reefs...

I have heard the weight difference has been virtually wiped out, the 85's are listed at 124kg, while yamaha's DF 70 is 114kg (1liter engin), Suzuki's DF60 (1liter engin) is 104kg, though the 70, 80 and 90 jumps to 1.5liter engines, and 155 to 158kg.
Where is the best place(s) to sell the 85's?  And look for second hand four strokes?

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 Posted: Tue Jan 11th, 2022 08:39 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Im a two stroke junkie.
problem solving is much easier then 4 strokes.

the yearly service i perform myself.
servicing might be R 3000 a year for 4 strokes per motor.

You could end up getting a nice set of engines, history might be a concern.
there was a tread where suzukis end up making oil????

Gum tree would be my best bet to try and sell them.
They might go quickly.
they are still building new boats and fit old 2 strokes on them.

let us know, what price you got for them.

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 Posted: Tue Jan 11th, 2022 09:56 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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Mana: 
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Yup be careful of a generation of Zukes that were "making" oil, those chould be the ones up for sale now on the second hand market..I saw them "making oil" on a mates boat with my own eyes, brand new motors..Suzuki's customer service in that regard was not good, it basically became the owners problem as far as I know as they were under service warranty so suzuki just servicing them as needed and the owners planning to sell ASAP as soon as they were out of warranty period, I am not fully aware of the full story but that was what I can recall from my mates experience.

As far as I know the problem was resolved in the newer ones..I hope so we got two of them hahahha

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 Posted: Tue Jan 11th, 2022 01:01 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Yip a guy with 2x 60hp motors.
He is from moz and the motors had something like 900 hours on them.

the tread is here somewhere.
so just take note of it.

still good motors.

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 Posted: Wed Jan 12th, 2022 08:45 pm
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nantes
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Last edited on Thu Jan 13th, 2022 08:27 pm by nantes

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 Posted: Thu Jan 13th, 2022 07:32 am
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Dr halibut hoffman
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My Gallery: 
Thanks for the post nantes..

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 Posted: Thu Jan 13th, 2022 01:00 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
a bit off topic, but in any case.
it keep the tread going :)

the only way a motor can make oil, is due to blow by, where fuel is mixing with oil.
so your oil is being diluted.
one would think that the fuel will evaporate, but this does not happen.

so, the compression is so high and rings are not sealing properly. so its blown pass the rings.
there is no other area, it can come from.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 04:57 am
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derMaaster
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Mana: 
Thanks all for very good information - can save a recreational guy many thousands these threads!

Willem,  we are obviously discussing 4 strokes - I know very little about engines, but Nantes? mentioned that it is when the props are not pitched correctly and struggling that "making oil" happens.. so I then assume, the engines are struggling and "pushing too hard" - does that cause consistent over-pressuring and thus the oil gets past the rings/seals ... and thus oil happens.

Nantes mentioned pitching down solved the problem.

I am a bit surprised that over pitching would cause a modern engine to leak, but perhaps that is a good design - rather leak oil than blow up?


If I can throw in another question on the line of thought earlier in the thread:

You mentioned a 2 stroke is simpler, less moving parts, easier to service?  Can a layman do all the servicing of a 2 stroke?  i.e, never have to take it to yamaha for a "big service"?

Or, should it go to Yamaha for a big service say every 400 hours, and the smaller service every 100 hours we can do ourselves?  Spark plugs and... ?  I ask this, because servicing has cost us a pretty penny too - our thinking is, not to get stuck out at sea with engines not working, avoiding risk and just having it serviced properly.  Is that necessary?  Can we do it ourselves rather?

I appreciate all the tips and replies.

Last edited on Fri Jan 14th, 2022 05:01 am by derMaaster

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 12:49 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Ja we are gooing this tread around now.

2 strokes are much easier to maintain.
you can perform the normal services yourself, its very easy to do.
on a two stroke engine you need to consider the following aspects:
a. make sure fuel lines are always good and clear and their connections are good.
b. check the fuel pump for leakage. outside, do not loosen it if there is no visible problems,
c. do not sommer adjust the carbs, do not fiddle with them.
if you want to clean carbs, screw all the screws in and count it in halfs and document this.
d. never adjust float levels, leave them alone. its uncommon for floats to loose their levels. if you screw around with float levels, you screw around with mixture which cannot be corrected by mixture screws!
e. spark plugs can be changed, hand tighten them then a further 90 degrees on ratchet, nothing more.
f. i never fit new plugs before a surf launch expedition.
ill rather use the old ones and have spare in stock. you dont want a new plug to give you ***, cause you will not search for a plug fault.
g. water pumps is easy to do, just follow the basics on it. 50 to 100 hours or more then are quite tough.
h. gearbox oil is very easy to do, we do it yearly to see that seals are not leaking, getting water inside.
i did a how to change gearbox oil.
i. leave timing settings alone.
j. if you do get stuck and only did normal stuff, it can only be that, do not go search for faults on other places.

k. i have seen so many guys, charge extensive for 2 stroke services and they did actually not much.

will get back to 4 strokes

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 12:57 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
The 4 stroje engines are still a new concept.
the older ones did make some oil, on the suzuki 60hp.

its something about the constant idling i think.
because on idling, slow trolling the chamber compression is not high so it think the rings do not seal properly and that might be why so much blow by occurs.

on higher rpm, the pressure is much greater so rings will seal better due to the increased forces.
again, its fuel on blow by pass the rings which is creating oil.
The 4 stroke engine are much more expensive to service, you also need to reset them with software systems as far as i know "service resetting"
this means, you can do most things, but you still need to have it reset.
costs on services are anything from R 3000 per engine.
they are also chain driven suzuki's has 4x valves per cylinder, so its a high performance engine.

fault finding with sensors which have poor connections due to salt water can be horrifical to sort out.
two strokes dont have so many sensors.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 12:58 pm
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derMaaster
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Mana: 
Excellent, thanks Willem - your post is an argument to keep the 2 strokes:

Since if I can save say, R5000 on servicing a year vs 4 stroke... then no need to change them.  (apart from oil mixed fumes)

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 01:05 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
derMaaster wrote:
Excellent, thanks Willem - your post is an argument to keep the 2 strokes:

Since if I can save say, R5000 on servicing a year vs 4 stroke... then no need to change them.  (apart from oil mixed fumes)


its the same for me.
i have 2x 75 hp two strokes, my fuel costs per fishing trips is around 100 liters per day, so R 2000
if yours was R 1000 you would have a saving of R 1000 and in 4x days that's R 4000.00

so a saving of R 4000 a fishing trip VS costs, of R 200k for new engines, there about.

So it will take you 50 Trips, to spend the R 200 000k you wanted to fork out for another engine.

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 01:09 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
derMaaster wrote:
We have two yamaha 85's, two-stroke on our indigo 600, we use it once a year in mozambique for diving and then 2 or three times during the year on a dam for boating.. they are in good condition and we look after them..
Question - what can they be sold for?  Who would like to buy them, is there demand for that spec yamaha engin?
Regards,


for the time you use it, the expenses does not make sense.

maar dis jou geld, bly jou keuse

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 01:16 pm
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derMaaster
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Mana: 
Is it possible to acquire the electronic device, or program via  laptop?  to reset a four stroke engine?

Theoretically, then you can do all the servicing yourself?  (apart from if something went wrong, it is more difficult to diagnose)

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 Posted: Fri Jan 14th, 2022 01:25 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
i have no idea and dont know what the costs are.
maybe do a search on the net, about the specific models you might fit and see if laptop resets are needed with services.

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