tapered leader

Raaneip

Member
got myself john holdens book on reel tuning. got the following tip from it:

"I mentioned earlier that I have no use for complicated leader knots. However, I do like tapered leaders where the material itself is thinned down over the last metre or so. What I don’t like is paying for them. I make my own crude but effective version by rubbing down the end of the leader material with wet-and-dry paper. The resulting leader knot is small, which promotes clean running."

anybody familiar with this?
what does he mean with wet-and-dry paper?
 

Raaneip

Member
ok the great sangoma google gave me the answer to the second question:

"A flexible latex impregnated waterproof backing paper coated with abrasive. Used wet or dry for sanding paint, primer and body filler."
 

Pylstert

Sealiner
Add to your google search what fish they catch in the UK and then compare to the fish here in SA and then you will think twice about sanding down your leader, rather learn to tie a proper, small knot or buy tapered leader if you want to.

Any hardware will sell wet and dry sand paper though
 

SimpleSimon

New member
Does not make sense to sand down a leader and weaken it because he cannot tie a decent leader knot....




Learn to tie a decent leader knot and you will know that you have a decent chance of landing your fish.
 

Raaneip

Member
hi pylsert.

I agree with you, but actually it was unfair of me to include the first line of his quote. I think the reason for him sanding down the leader is because he doesnt want to pay for tapered leaders, which he likes to use. There are many oppinions on what knot is the best for tying on thick leaders - 1mm plus. One of the qualities I like of a descent leader knot is it's size.

When tying braid to leader I like the GT knot, in my oppinion the smallest and if tied correctly, strongest knot to use. I have experimented with the FG on mono to mono and although it tests very strong compared to my mainline the problem I have is that the half-hitches you end it with becomes undone after a couple of casts. I have tried ending the FG with many other known knots including the Yazuri but with the same effect.

Having used tapered leaders before it does give you a very small knot and strong when tied descently e.g. double uni.

So if it is possible to sand down a 1.2mm leader to say the thickness of your main line without compromising strength ( weaker than your main line) you can have a strong and small knot by using a double uni for instance.

Question is will the sanded down leader become too weak in the process.
 

Pylstert

Sealiner
I won't sand it down at all. I generally use up to 1mm leaders and use the good old double line for my mainline with 2x figure 8s. This is with mono and multipliers and my rods have eyes that easily cope with these knots. For thicker leaders I think the wind on is the simplest solution. I can also think of better things to do than try and sand down a piece of fishing line, but each to their own. I reckon you can very quickly weaken a 1.2mm leader below the breaking strain of 0.55 plus mess up the knot strength by sanding it.

Grinders and braid, this is a very different story and to me it seems the likes of the FG and PR are the only real solutions if you wind your leader onto the spool. If not, you can probably use a Bob Sands without sanding the leader. Depending off course if your eyes can handle the knot.
 

EugeneC

Sealiner
If I'm not mistaken, Mr Holden's advice is related to distance casting, not fishing? Sanding down a leader to make a smaller knot is the worst idea I've ever heard of if you're going to be fishing in the ocean, as opposed to trying to make the longest cast in a casting comp.

Even if sanding down the leader would add 50m to my cast, I'd rather sacrifice the added distance and have a proper leader when I'm attached to a beast...
 

Psy

Sealiner
A good all round purpose knot to use is the No-Name or Bristol Knot

Some of us here have used this knot with great success ~ it being an easy knot to tie.
Be sure of your bimini.
 

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Raaneip

Member
Thanks Psy.

If you were to buy a tapered leader what knot would you use?

EugeneC, it is true that mr holden is involved in competition casting, but he is also an avid fisherman and write many articles about practical distance casting for fishing. The part I quoted is in his section of the book of basic equipment tuning. Wheather he uses this trick for fishing leaders I don't know.

Lets forget for a moment about the sanded down leader (I still dont know for a fact that it does weaken your leader) and try the following question:

Is there a difference in strength of the whole front part of your tackle ( say the last 10 metets of your main line, your leader up to the end) between using a tapered leader and a straight leader using any knot of your choice? Or if cost was not a factor, would you prefer a tapered or straight leader?
 

Psy

Sealiner
I would make a bimini and use the Bristol knot, its the quickest and easiest to tie.
It has proved itself with sliding for shark, is also quite a small knot and is quite steamlined for your rods guides too.
It has the bonus of not having any half loops to be tied,(to lock it off) thereby giving you full confidence that the knot will not deteriorate under constant rubbing through the guides.
 

Psy

Sealiner
With regards to the second part of your post...

Here's what T Line have to say:

http://www.tline.co.za/leaderlinegame.htm

I think what they are aiming at is that with a tapered leader, you still have the strength but you have some more flexibility at the end allowing for lots of movement, if that's at all necessary?

:?

::tight:
 

Raaneip

Member
I asked mr Holden the question:

a Quick question. In your reel book you say that you use wet and dry paper to sand the one end of your leader down. Do you use this for fishing or only for casting over grass.

Is it practical to do this on say 1.2 mm leader to connect to 0.55 mainline? These are the typical sizes we use for shark fishing in South-Africa, sometimes even bigger.

Does the process substantially weaken the leader and what influence does it have on the knot strength?


Thanks for your reply
 

Raaneip

Member
and his reply:

Hello Gert,
Sanding down the line works fine with the diameters of leader and mainline you mention. The basic idea is to make the leader taper to the same diameter as the mainline. The taper needs to be about 100mm long, but that isn't critical. Test the knot breaking strain to see that the brand of leader is up to the job. Sometimes you need to change to another make. Idea works best with basic mono. The exotic stuff can be difficult to sand down. Use wet and dry paper with a drop of water. Regards, John
 

Psy

Sealiner
Gert

I doubt you will be able to sand down a leader uniformly, ie; you will have some part of it irregular and thickness is detrimental to its strength!

For what its worth buy the T line tapered leaders!




:fbash
 
I'm a novice when it comes to the mono but unless distance casting as the guys above said I see no point..For me the beauty of mono is the simple and quick joining that seems to retain most of line strength if done properly, figure 8 to figure 8, double your .55mm and make 4 turns, then 3 turns with 1.2mm leader. We fish mostly the same line spinning and if you wet lekker and pull the crap out of the knot to make sure it is as tight as its going to get, and trim your tags very tight, it goes through your guides with no issue. These knots get cast all day long, cast after cast, spinning..They will only get changed out when the leader is chaffed from landing fish and you can pull on the join as hard as you can pull. Got some of my biggest fish on this simple join including my biggest tuna and other fish I had to pull far harder.

I see some guys getting fancy here with bimini's etc, but most big fish get wrestled out on figure8-figure8..double mainline and 4turns and 3 turns on 1.2mm as said..

The only way to know is to go though..so make some tapered leaders, buy some from t line too..Then tie up different joins and throw them and pull them against a tree against each other and let us know what the story is ;)
 

grootvis

Sealiner
Heres my solution to the problem.

I use .55 mainline. I use a 1mm flourocarbon leader. No matter what knot you use, you are sitting with a bulky knot going through the guides which will deteriorate quicker from abrasion.

In order for me to use a 1mm leader to thicker mainline with hardly a knot at all.....

Tie a 600mm or shorter section of braid to your mainline using either, an FG or albright. Now you have hardly any knot. Then FG your braid section to the 1mm flouro. Voila!

You have .55 mainline connected to a 1mm flouro leader without any bulky knot. Hardly even hear it going through the guides. Ive been using this set up most of the season and yet to change out the leader. Albeit its due to change because it hasnt been changed for a while.

Problem with a bulky knot, when you have a fish on the end of your line, when you need to get that knot through your tip guide, under tension you end up sitting with the knot against your guide and you cannot reel! You have to dip your rod tip or slacken off to get it through, I dont want that!

Happy fishing!:)
 

Pylstert

Sealiner
sounds a heck of a lot better than sanding your leader, Gert I hope you are not going to use the sanded leader on sharks or Kingfish, unless you make use of what GV suggests, you should be doubling your mainline to maintain knot strength, using single line and then sanding down the leader to the same diameter as the main line is going to result in a pretty weak knot. Guaranteed - most mono knots used for joining lines drop down to 80% or less of the original breaking strain, you can avoid this by doubling your main line with a bimini or spider hitch, bu if you are going to sand down the leader, you automatically lose this advantage
 

Raaneip

Member
thanks for all the input and advice, including the criticism. I am now convinced that it is not a worthwhile pursuit.

grootvis, I really like your idea, thanks for sharing.
 

grootvis

Sealiner
Its all about finding solutions to problems. Glad to help anytime. Heres a pic of the albright to braid. Try match the braid to diameter of mainline, but its not critical.
Second pic is the FG to leader. As you can see the knots are really super streamlined and easy to tie.

I keep a few braid to flouro leader sections in my bag in case of break offs with the braid Fg to leader. When i need to replace at the water I only have to connect with an albright, simple and quick.
 

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