The Most Horrific Destruction of Salmon and the Enviroment in Chile

Arniston

New member
I subscribe to FlyDreamers...a very excellent site covering the whole world...flyfishing in fresh and salt water.

Their posts are phenominal and high quality.

However this shocked me...I had heard of the excellent fishing in Chile, Patagonia and Argentina but I was stunned by this.

What do say Dr Halibut Hoffman.

The Salmon the most aristocratic species of all and the most valuable riddled with parasites and fed and injected with antibiotics. Are we eating this crap and poison.

The polution at the sea bed of once pristine coast, filthy with polutants...it makes one sick.

https://youtu.be/D_fg1MV5YCI
 
I say it is (INSERT RELEVANT SWEARWORD) disgusting what humans do for a buck sometimes..

It is such a ironic shame that the one industry that could save our ocean stocks, becomes the death of the ocean..Ja people can be so sif! It grinds me. When I left school I studied further and wanted to go into this field of agriculture, as I saw that ocean stocks were stuffed and I saw this as the answer. But trust people to stuff it up. In any case what you also don't see is the other side of the equation is that for all those millions of tons of farmed salmon it took tens of millions of tons of fishfood to produce that and the global agriculture industry just became a really east way to launder illegal or unwanted catches as now those masses of catches that should not be targeted now can be simply turned into fiish meal and pellets and then turned into salmon that can be freely sold. Ja it is disgusting and more so..A massive organized crime against nature and hence against us humans as we are as a part of nature as much as we try to kid ourselves that we are not in the modern existance.
Aquaculture and farming can be done so right, but sometimes it is done so wrong. Humans..our wild harvest as a species too is just as bad, if we did that sustainably and stocks recovered all over, we would not need to farm fish as we as a species would not be able to eat all we catch..but we do our best to stuff that resource up..
Interesting post thanks!
"Are we eating this crap and poison." Not me! I catch my own thanks! No pharma antibiotics for me if I can help it, I get mine from mushrooms when I need them..a bigger danger for us thought I reckon is the ubiquitous use of low dose antibiotics in masses of consumer goods such as soaps, that will cause a future public health crises if you ask me, it is like we are trying to selectively breed germs that are resistant, nevermind our own micro flora and fauna are decimated.

There must be something seriously wrong with the way that farming is done to have to use a thousand times more antibiotics than other places, even though the chileans do not seem to think there is a difference in their techniques there must be. Also to farm fish in an area where they do not come from is suspect..but in SA we do and have done the same, though we are more sustainalble and although I think it is wrong a part of me still wants someone to start a yellowtail pen farm in morocco as some WILL escape and then the med will be quickly colonised and then the fishing there would be even better..LOL.. My own opinion or guess is that it is not the predation of the salmon that has caused the stocks to dissappear, but the disease introduced to the environment plus what the huge nutrient load does to the chemistries of the waters in those giant fjords?? But I am far from any expert and just making a guess..anyway what ever bacteria needs that amount of antibiotics to keep it in check that hits native fish with no defence, its like us humans and this wuhan flu!
 
I find it hard not to be emotional about this.

Just in case you haven't heard, this is coming to Langebaan folks. A vitally important sustaining ecosystem. We are going to poison it, despite the body of evidence highlighting the risks and consequences of these farming practices.

Yes, we must balance the arguments for economic development and job creation, but not at the expense of the environment and long term sustainability!

Did you know... Norwegians don't eat Norwegian Salmon anymore? Now the most TOXIC fish to eat. Take the time to check this documentary out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsbtit20DLo

Coming to Langebaan!
Coming to Langebaan!!
Coming to Langebaan!!!
Coming to Langebaan!!!!
Coming to Langebaan!!!!!

Purge over! Here is to staying sane for the rest of lockdown... Sounds like we may be able to stretch our legs and lines soon. We can only hope.
 

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If done properly it can be great: economic growth, jobs, food and pressure off the wild stocks..if not why not, i wholeheartedly agree with aquaculture but like any farming, you can't do it to the detriment to the environment..

To put it into perspective, most of our indigenous forests are long gone and now are replaced with the pine we use the paper and timber from and dairy pastures for the milk that we drink. So it is relative. Done properly either or, can work and coexist with nature and even improve nature and take the food pressure of nature, but done in an unsustainable manner you can cause hunger for generations and or stuff up the nature to a point where it can never recover again..
In australia I think the fish farming is done sustainably and that is where most of our pilchards go as far as I know, we could use them ourselves and then not have to import those little yellowtails from them that we love to eat and use as bait, that are fed the sardines. There is an entire coast now that has good stocks of yellowtail that never had before as there were some escapees at some point..I dont think that is entirely a bad thing though some conservationists would definitely disagree. The other big use for our sardines is the bluefin ranching that goes on there, which I dont agree with as no point to take from your recruitment stock in the wild, the japanese have created protocols to breed southern bluefin in captivity and anyway some australians are getting stupidly rich exporting bluefin to japan..Why dont we instead of exporting our sardines to australia? I am sure no one will mind some escaping! Why not culture blackfin as they used to occur here but no longer do? Why not farm fish if one does it in a careful manner that does not mess up nature? Why do we not have extensive hatchery programs supporting aquaculture ventures, marine ranching and conservation?


I think we should do more aquaculture in SA, but all in a sustainable manner. As it says in the documentary the Norwegian salmon has 1/1000 of the antibiotics that the chilean stuff has so they must be doing something right. But like any mining, fishing and farming it must be sustainable or done with care for the environment and the generations after, or what is the point of the exercise? Net gain is the point, if we end up with a net loss then why even get off the couch!
 
((goodp_

DrHH, Wow, I so appreciate your balanced perspective, informed insight and contributions - thank you.

On this aquaculture issue, and how it could affect our shared resource in Langebaan, I am jaded. I have precious little faith left in our institutional gatekeepers (DAFF et al) to ensure that the right thing is done.

I really hope that we will celebrate the Langebaan aquaculture initiative as a success! Dare I say that the cost of not getting it spot-on is such a risk for us (as recreational particpants) and the region as a whole.

Tragedy of the Commons archetype looming over this precious system...

Will now take my chill pill and put myself down for the night. Thank you Arniston for raising the issue in Chile. If we don't take stock and appreciate the lessons and highlighted risks, we are going to %^$6 it up for ourselves bigtime.

Jeepers, this lockdown story was initially manageable, but our household is riddled with cabin fever and itching to get back out there and into some fresh sea air!!!

hang tight...almost there.
 

Arniston

New member
A couple of years ago I had some communication with a fellow, Mikhail Skopets.

Mikhail is a world reknown marine biologist and is an authority on wild salmon.

Mikhail is Russian and lives in Siberia but travels vastly in his work and research and interacts with colleagues all over the world.

He also is an avid angler and has an interesting angling blog and is involved in guiding and fishing tours in Russia and that was the reason I contacted him. He seems a nice bloke and gave me some information about fishing in his country of which I was keen to do a some stage but it will have to wait due to expenses that I cannot afford now.
I'm going to send that video to him for comment, hoping he will respond...he interacts a lot with Americans and is fluent in English.
If he does respond I will fill you in Dr Halibut and others. I'm sure you would be interested.
 

Fin-S

Sealiner
The Chilean situation is not unique - it is only because it is a high value fish that it has got the recognition.

There are 100's of similar issues in Asia and even closer to home throughout Africa. Look at tilapia in Zambia, perch in Uganda etc. But in saying that we also have some first class operations - IIRC, Marc, aka ripplefisher was running one in Ghana.

As mentioned, aquaculture can be a valuable contributor to the economy and the environment if done correctly. But when it is poorly conceived and implemented, it can be as bad as mining.
Dr HH - Blackfin tuna in South Africa? Do you have a reference. Tx
 
Blackfin, I dont..I have it on good word that what were thought to be small "bluefin"that in the old days used to run in false bay were sent off and sampled or something like that and some ended up being blackfin in the end, speculating here but maybe part of brazils stock?

I will ask the person that told me this, they have never given me information in the past though that turned out to be false and he's like you, has more time spent on our water chasing tuna than I have had alive..I don't doubt him, but the information is heresay, I will check that up..
Looking online what I do find is this:
https://repository.library.noaa.gov/view/noaa/3243/noaa_3243_DS1.pdf?
"According to Rivas
(1961:131), a blackfin tuna identified by the International Game Fish Association
from off Capetown, South Africa, may be in reality a bigeye tuna, Thunnus obesus
(Lowe). In the western South Atlantic and in the eastern Atlantic, confusion of the
blackfin with T. obesus, and even small individuals of T. albacares, may have
occurred. A report from FAO (1976) stated that "The Committee (on small tunas)
recommends that FAO instruct the Working Party on Tuna and Billfish Taxonomy
to verify the suspected occurrence of blackfin tuna in the eastern Atlantic Ocean."

So there were reports of fish from the cape in those days, but they may have been misidentified..who knows? I'll ask the person who told me this..
 
Ok... I remembered incorrectly, confirmed that they were small bluefin not blackfin in the old days..
Small bluefin are also interesting as that would mean there used to be another historical spawn ground other than the one known one NE of aus, south of indo? But that is another topic altogether. Anyways..
 

Fin-S

Sealiner
Thanks for that. Yep, the presence of juveniles would suggest localised spawning - we can only imagine!

With the decline in global supply and demand I have heard that the situation in some farms is getting out of control. No sales means no harvesting which leads to overcrowding and an even greater reliance on antibiotics.....once we get back to a semblance of normality I wouldn't be buying any farmed fish! Besides, after lockdown the wild ones will be queuing up;)
 
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