I am relatively new to rock and surf angling. Don't cast very far as yet but working on it.Generally once you have cast a multiplier you brake it with your thumb to prevent overwind, doesn't it make sense to take your thumb off again to allow you sinker to sink otherwise you will get a pendulum effect once the sinker starts sinking and depending on the depth it could cost you a couple meters.
I personally use an overhead cast but would like t
- Thread starter CrAZy-BuG
- Start date
the force at which that lead strikes the sea send it flying for the ocean floor i doubt you loose much and the actual lead swining back towards you , the only problem with let the spool run free is that the rip or wave action will strip meters of your spool and wash it all over the place, very uncomfortable with other anglers around,,
I reckon the average joe needs to cast from 0 to 120m to be in the money, anything further then good for you.
I cast on average between 100 to 120m with ease and can make 130 + when really needed, left arm over slightly to the side not directly over the shoulder and i am a right handed person.
But facts be told, mostly catch fish when within 100m mark, 99% of the time thats all thats needed.
I cast on average between 100 to 120m with ease and can make 130 + when really needed, left arm over slightly to the side not directly over the shoulder and i am a right handed person.
But facts be told, mostly catch fish when within 100m mark, 99% of the time thats all thats needed.
I have really spent a lot of time practicing my casts. At the moment my average is around 150. But the last time I was at the ocean, most of my fish were probably caught between 50 and 70 meters from the shore.
I rate a further cast is going to be the exception rather than the rule. Always good to be able to cast a little further though. But as it was said in this thread, if you can't get a bait out to the location, just move to a new location.
I rate a further cast is going to be the exception rather than the rule. Always good to be able to cast a little further though. But as it was said in this thread, if you can't get a bait out to the location, just move to a new location.
Crazy_Bug,
Most of the time people throw right over the fish.
The best measured cast I have seen with 0.45 nylon and sinker only is 204m by Paul Loomes. A regular TN30 reel and a 14ft 3 piece graphite rod.
I don't think there is a massive gain in distance by using any sort of "style"
I have tested myself and with zero effort compared to a full effort there is maybe a 10m difference in the throw.
A mistake I see often is guys trying to cast too hard, if you push too hard you end up with overwinds!
95% of fishing you don't need a long cast - nice to have the ability for the other 5% though. Casting a long way is not the be all and end all of fishing - as mentioned by Kraken earlier in this thread - find water which suits your casting and abilities.
C/Gauteng having their casting trials in May if anyone in Gauteng wants to join. Myself or Kumz will still post a thread for this day as there will also be bait, trace, knot clinics. The public will only be able to cast on ht e practice field but this is an opportunity to see some the top anglers casting techniques.
Most of the time people throw right over the fish.
The best measured cast I have seen with 0.45 nylon and sinker only is 204m by Paul Loomes. A regular TN30 reel and a 14ft 3 piece graphite rod.
I don't think there is a massive gain in distance by using any sort of "style"
I have tested myself and with zero effort compared to a full effort there is maybe a 10m difference in the throw.
A mistake I see often is guys trying to cast too hard, if you push too hard you end up with overwinds!
95% of fishing you don't need a long cast - nice to have the ability for the other 5% though. Casting a long way is not the be all and end all of fishing - as mentioned by Kraken earlier in this thread - find water which suits your casting and abilities.
C/Gauteng having their casting trials in May if anyone in Gauteng wants to join. Myself or Kumz will still post a thread for this day as there will also be bait, trace, knot clinics. The public will only be able to cast on ht e practice field but this is an opportunity to see some the top anglers casting techniques.
some of the distances mentioned are pretty impressive,although I think if you can cast a bait 100 to 120m you've pretty much got it covered,if you really need to get further go for a wade...casting far from chest high water is another skill all on it's own.the quickest way to increase distance is to lengthen the drop to about 2 to 2.5m and adapt to a side cast or pendulam and get the whole body behind the cast, which enables you to cast using thigh and back muscles.
Spyker Kruger
Sealiner
rofflign wrote:
SPOT ON, if you can cast a long drop and get a big build up you will, not should increase with at least 20 meters end more.
But it takes practise I do the off the ground,and over head cast.I prevere the swing back and then the build up to the cast.
If you plan on practising use .55 line a heavy line on practise will give you a stronger cast with lighter line.
I fish with .55 on our coast ,but will drop to 35 for plugging and spooning.And if you are right handed it is the left arm that gives you youre cast.
A rod can be devided in 3 parts Number 1 the bottom end 2 is the middel end and 3 the last third.
When you cast the power starts at number one, then jumps to 3 and the last follow through is number 2.that is the way youre rod reacts to youre cast.
SPOT ON, if you can cast a long drop and get a big build up you will, not should increase with at least 20 meters end more.
But it takes practise I do the off the ground,and over head cast.I prevere the swing back and then the build up to the cast.
If you plan on practising use .55 line a heavy line on practise will give you a stronger cast with lighter line.
I fish with .55 on our coast ,but will drop to 35 for plugging and spooning.And if you are right handed it is the left arm that gives you youre cast.
A rod can be devided in 3 parts Number 1 the bottom end 2 is the middel end and 3 the last third.
When you cast the power starts at number one, then jumps to 3 and the last follow through is number 2.that is the way youre rod reacts to youre cast.
WWFisherman
Senior Member
I'm only casting about 60 - 70m at the moment but focusing more on technique than distance as I'm loathe to let an overwind cut into my fishing time.
paullegrange
New member
I know guys that throw far but 200+- mtrs i dont know on a beach things are really different. try throwing a small bonnie head while neck deep on a wade and see how far only 100m is then
paullegrange wrote:
200m the guys are talking about sinker only.
With a good sized bait - like a Raggie bait - 80-100m is a good throw.
200m the guys are talking about sinker only.
With a good sized bait - like a Raggie bait - 80-100m is a good throw.
Mussle Cracker
Sealiner
all i have found is if you try to many tecniques you just confuse the situation..find something that you are comfortable with and just practice practice practice...you will get distance ..
please keep us update about the expedition day...it will give us boksburgers something to do.. thanks misguided
please keep us update about the expedition day...it will give us boksburgers something to do.. thanks misguided
I get 100-110m with this method . . .
PHIL HYDE's "HI-INERTIA" Casting Method High Inertia – a better route to surfcasting - By PHIL HYDE ( UK )
There are a few guidelines to follow; not rules, as you can ignore them if you wish, although doing so may make things more difficult.
1. To cast we need to store energy in the rod. If the rod is too stiff, it will prove difficult to bend.
2. To bend the rod, the load must either remain still, or travel slower than the tip of the rod.
3. If we use the inertia of the lead to load the rod, at the start of the cast the weight MUST remain within the arc of the rod. If the weight moves outside the tip, at the wrong time, the resulting centrifugal force generated will either burn your thumb, cause a crack – off, or both.
4. The HI – INERTIA cast is designed to get the line from the rod tip and the weight pulling through the rod at 90 degrees to the butt with the rod fully loaded. This is the point where the “Pull – Push†is executed, and is when the weight does move outside the tip. The resultant acceleration due to the now correctly applied centrifugal force accelerates the weight with apparently no effort.
5. The most interesting point here is that the rod tip will still be bent at 90 degrees as the weight goes past and on its way. The rod tip now has no load, and the final straightening is what accelerates the reel spool to full speed. If the tip is badly designed, over-rung, or with inappropriate ringing patterns, the resultant tip overshoot is the cause of the unexplained crack – off that happens when the lead has travelled 25 to 50 yards.
6. FINALLY, use HALF the effort you think you are going to need, let the rod do the work, so you don’t have to!!
THOSE ARE THE GUIDELINES, A PASSPORT TO SUCCESS.
The 90 Degree myth
Almost all the writings concerning casting methods refer to the off-the-ground method as starting with the rod at 7:30 (assuming the cast direction is at 12:00), also known as 45 degrees, and with the line from the rod tip to the weight and rig at 90 degrees to the rod.
IF the rod was absolutely rigid, then this might work if the user could accelerate continuously from the start to the delivery of the weight & bait. Unfortunately we need a bite indication capability in the rod, and also the facility to store energy so that the cast becomes easier…there is a lot of truth in the words often written, “the rod is too stiff for the userâ€.
Once you have paid your money and walked out of the shop, you are too late to change, and if you got a “freebieâ€, you don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
So, whats wrong with the 45 degree: 90 degree method? And why doesn’t it work? Well it does work after a fashion, but due to the fact that when this method is used the rod is foreshortened as soon as the rod moves, the angle between the rod butt and the weight immediately exceeds 90 degrees, and the weight travels outside the tip. This premature “outing†of the weight/bait generates centrifugal force.
Due to the use of force to compensate for this outing, this is a MAJOR cause of dangerous crackoffs, as the weight is pulling along the length of the line, rather than pulling the rod into its full compression curve. It is relatively easy to break 80lb leaders this way and is why many casters have to use a “thumbieâ€. A real expert can cast colossal distances with a FISHING rod with almost no effort and no thumbie, and in some ways is a disappointment to watch. Pictures of casters grimacing and gritting their teeth just mean the caster involved is not as good as he/she thinks!
The Transition Point
What the hell is a transition point? Lets look at the classic off-the ground cast with an inside layout. This cast EXACTLY emulates what happens in a well – executed Pendulum cast, which is what everyone seems to want to do these days.
The cast (OTG or Pendulob) consists of two parts.
1. The Javelin pull through.
2. The turn – over.
The Javelin pull occurs as the leading hand guides the rod butt upwards, the up – rod hand following.
The turn – over occurs when the leading hand can go no further. The leading hand then pulls the butt round and in to the solar plexus. CAUTION!! If the butt of your rod is too long, you may wind yourself!! This is where the Transition occurs. If you have compressed your rod, your lead/bait will have moved to align itself to pull at 90 degrees to the rod butt WITH THE ROD BENT AT 90 DEGREES, and the transition is from an INSIDE to an OUTSIDE the rod tip position.
This is where REAL distance is generated. The lead/bait is travelling fast, and to change its direction needs an extra input of energy. This is why the lead GOES ROUND THE OUTSIDE from this point, as its direction cannot change!!
As the rod turns over, the centrifugal force that with the first method could have caused a disaster now comes to our assistance. The rod now recovers from compression, and as the lead/bait is already moving, there is no extra pressure applied to the shock leader to cause a crack-off, and the lead/bait goes past the tip of the rod while the tip is STILL BENT AT 90 DEGREES. With a well – designed rod, the tip then straightens AS THE LEAD GOES BY and whips the reel spool up to speed. Remember that this all happens in a fraction of a second, which is why the emphasis for learners is to concentrate on Timing and Technique, and not the “Hit it harder, it’ll goâ€, beloved of those relying on brute strength as a substitute for T&T.
Here also can be a problem. If you have a modern lightweight 21st century blank, and it is equipped with the heavy clumsy rings from the 1970s, and specially the DIAMITE tip ring from the 1960’s, this is where rod recoil and subsequent overshoot can occur, this is the cause of the unexplainable crack-off’s that occur between 20 and 50 yards out. What happens is the rod overshoot pulls another couple of feet of line from the spool. This line has no-where to go, as the lead cannot accelerate to take up the slack. A side wind can help, but the usual result is a messy over-run, and in a competition could be a disaster!!
The above information is based on logic backed up by scientific facts. The model rod will demonstrate the above effects if this handout accompanies a booked demonstration – it is up to you to use the information if you wish. A smoother cast will deliver bait more efficiently and with less chance of damage to the bait.
PHIL HYDE's "HI-INERTIA" Casting Method High Inertia – a better route to surfcasting - By PHIL HYDE ( UK )
There are a few guidelines to follow; not rules, as you can ignore them if you wish, although doing so may make things more difficult.
1. To cast we need to store energy in the rod. If the rod is too stiff, it will prove difficult to bend.
2. To bend the rod, the load must either remain still, or travel slower than the tip of the rod.
3. If we use the inertia of the lead to load the rod, at the start of the cast the weight MUST remain within the arc of the rod. If the weight moves outside the tip, at the wrong time, the resulting centrifugal force generated will either burn your thumb, cause a crack – off, or both.
4. The HI – INERTIA cast is designed to get the line from the rod tip and the weight pulling through the rod at 90 degrees to the butt with the rod fully loaded. This is the point where the “Pull – Push†is executed, and is when the weight does move outside the tip. The resultant acceleration due to the now correctly applied centrifugal force accelerates the weight with apparently no effort.
5. The most interesting point here is that the rod tip will still be bent at 90 degrees as the weight goes past and on its way. The rod tip now has no load, and the final straightening is what accelerates the reel spool to full speed. If the tip is badly designed, over-rung, or with inappropriate ringing patterns, the resultant tip overshoot is the cause of the unexplained crack – off that happens when the lead has travelled 25 to 50 yards.
6. FINALLY, use HALF the effort you think you are going to need, let the rod do the work, so you don’t have to!!
THOSE ARE THE GUIDELINES, A PASSPORT TO SUCCESS.
The 90 Degree myth
Almost all the writings concerning casting methods refer to the off-the-ground method as starting with the rod at 7:30 (assuming the cast direction is at 12:00), also known as 45 degrees, and with the line from the rod tip to the weight and rig at 90 degrees to the rod.
IF the rod was absolutely rigid, then this might work if the user could accelerate continuously from the start to the delivery of the weight & bait. Unfortunately we need a bite indication capability in the rod, and also the facility to store energy so that the cast becomes easier…there is a lot of truth in the words often written, “the rod is too stiff for the userâ€.
Once you have paid your money and walked out of the shop, you are too late to change, and if you got a “freebieâ€, you don’t look a gift horse in the mouth!
So, whats wrong with the 45 degree: 90 degree method? And why doesn’t it work? Well it does work after a fashion, but due to the fact that when this method is used the rod is foreshortened as soon as the rod moves, the angle between the rod butt and the weight immediately exceeds 90 degrees, and the weight travels outside the tip. This premature “outing†of the weight/bait generates centrifugal force.
Due to the use of force to compensate for this outing, this is a MAJOR cause of dangerous crackoffs, as the weight is pulling along the length of the line, rather than pulling the rod into its full compression curve. It is relatively easy to break 80lb leaders this way and is why many casters have to use a “thumbieâ€. A real expert can cast colossal distances with a FISHING rod with almost no effort and no thumbie, and in some ways is a disappointment to watch. Pictures of casters grimacing and gritting their teeth just mean the caster involved is not as good as he/she thinks!
The Transition Point
What the hell is a transition point? Lets look at the classic off-the ground cast with an inside layout. This cast EXACTLY emulates what happens in a well – executed Pendulum cast, which is what everyone seems to want to do these days.
The cast (OTG or Pendulob) consists of two parts.
1. The Javelin pull through.
2. The turn – over.
The Javelin pull occurs as the leading hand guides the rod butt upwards, the up – rod hand following.
The turn – over occurs when the leading hand can go no further. The leading hand then pulls the butt round and in to the solar plexus. CAUTION!! If the butt of your rod is too long, you may wind yourself!! This is where the Transition occurs. If you have compressed your rod, your lead/bait will have moved to align itself to pull at 90 degrees to the rod butt WITH THE ROD BENT AT 90 DEGREES, and the transition is from an INSIDE to an OUTSIDE the rod tip position.
This is where REAL distance is generated. The lead/bait is travelling fast, and to change its direction needs an extra input of energy. This is why the lead GOES ROUND THE OUTSIDE from this point, as its direction cannot change!!
As the rod turns over, the centrifugal force that with the first method could have caused a disaster now comes to our assistance. The rod now recovers from compression, and as the lead/bait is already moving, there is no extra pressure applied to the shock leader to cause a crack-off, and the lead/bait goes past the tip of the rod while the tip is STILL BENT AT 90 DEGREES. With a well – designed rod, the tip then straightens AS THE LEAD GOES BY and whips the reel spool up to speed. Remember that this all happens in a fraction of a second, which is why the emphasis for learners is to concentrate on Timing and Technique, and not the “Hit it harder, it’ll goâ€, beloved of those relying on brute strength as a substitute for T&T.
Here also can be a problem. If you have a modern lightweight 21st century blank, and it is equipped with the heavy clumsy rings from the 1970s, and specially the DIAMITE tip ring from the 1960’s, this is where rod recoil and subsequent overshoot can occur, this is the cause of the unexplainable crack-off’s that occur between 20 and 50 yards out. What happens is the rod overshoot pulls another couple of feet of line from the spool. This line has no-where to go, as the lead cannot accelerate to take up the slack. A side wind can help, but the usual result is a messy over-run, and in a competition could be a disaster!!
The above information is based on logic backed up by scientific facts. The model rod will demonstrate the above effects if this handout accompanies a booked demonstration – it is up to you to use the information if you wish. A smoother cast will deliver bait more efficiently and with less chance of damage to the bait.