Guide recommendation and placement..

[Dr halibut hoffman]

This question for grootvis and the rod specialist guys..

I had my old trusty 9'6" xxxh exceller redone before this season, new eyes and all. It has already been lengthened on the butt before by 6 inches as I have looong arms and feels right length now.. Looking at the rod, it seems it was redone with fuji NOGs  and doesn't feel as responsive in the cast as before and consistent line wraps around the guides on any cross wind have forced me to decide to redo it again.. This occurs on tip eye, choker eye and mainly eye 2nd to 4th from the tip.

I use the rod for light spinning, bonnies, leeries and shad mainly. Well bonnies and shad nowadays as the shoals of leeries really seem to be a thing of the past thanks to the guys up north but ja leave that for another day..Rod being fished with 20lb hmp and .6mm leader mainly and a stradic 5000. I fish a longish leader just longer than rod length but FG knot not on spool, sometimes use the rod in the cape for tail and sometimes where I fish something bigger picks you up and the reefs are sharp so can't fish little meter long leader.

Ja if you guys could recommend the relevant fuji eyes and placement for this rod, I'd appreciate it..

Also I'd like to do it properly this time, the guides to last the rest of the life of the rod..but also like to spend as little as I need to, but prepared to spend as much as I need to..I don't need titanium feet but DO need inserts to be braid friendly etc..thanks

 

[Tackle-holic]

Can you post a couple of photos of what was done?
Simplest solution is to use K Series in Alconite.
Fuji have released a new ring material called Fazlite that is cheaper than Alconite, I have just built two rods with them and so far they are A-OK

If the idea of single foot guides top to bottom makes you nervous then a rapid choke set up will not be for you (although it works very well)

KW = K series double foot
KL = K Series single foot
KLH = K series high frame
KT = K series single foot running guides

New Guide concept layout guides:
KW30/25/20/12 and then as many KT7's or KT8's as required for good static loading
KW30 KL20 KL12 KT8 and then KT7's or KT8's to the tip top

KR Concept layout guides:
KL25H KL12H KL8M KL7L to KT7s

 

[Limpopoking]

Enigma rebuilt my 9' with Fuji K Alconite and I stopped having guide wrap issues straight away... Can't post pics cos my girlfriend got custody in the break up.

Give it to Brandon Doc... He is a transformer of rods and has a wealth of theory and practice.

 

[Dr halibut hoffman]

Must dig out the camera in a fishing bag somewhere

Thanks Brandon for your input.. I'm not adverse to having single foot guides, the rod had them before and I don't reckon they were anything better than pacbays even though that rod caught a literal ton of fish..still eating from the freezer from it from the last katonkel run haha..they did the job but didn't last. What is the main advantage of double feet (strength?) and what is the advantage of single feet?

I'd get my mate locally to redo the rod, shame though..eish, the new job looks so nicely done, so much work..I'd cry if I had done it! I'd be so happy with the job except the recurring line wraps are driving me mal!

Haha having so much fun with my grandwave and 10' BM superslim heavy but light custom so its been a matter of FAAAAAAAAK the bloody grinder is driving me mal, wheres me mono?! But then again katonkel and shad on .55 is not much sport..Been scheming of throwing a DIY katonkel sabiki on my .55 rig for a lag but thats another story.. Leeries are few and far between these days so the BM doesn't get really bent unless I hook a rock or a proper fish.

Anyway, took a look at my 11ft exage spinning version that was custom rebuilt by the same guy and shame that beautiful rod hardly gets used these days..Looking at that one, it was done with the fuji KW's , stainless and alconite, very happy with that and casts beautifully. That rod has dealt with every angry fish it has encountered, very satisfied. Ja, reckon the builder must have had a blonde moment with the exceller..I'll speak to him once I've figured whether to go single or double foot.

Does the KR Concept for you work better for casting for medium/light rods in 20lb range rather than the NGC?

 

[Tackle-holic]

"I'm not adverse to having single foot guides, the rod had them before and I don't reckon they were anything better than pacbays ..they did the job but didn't last."

They were Pacbay Minimas that's why they didn't last and they also damage braid...

"What is the main advantage of double feet (strength?)"
Yip

"and what is the advantage of single feet?"

Single foot guides are dramatically lighter and this is very good for rod recovery after a cast, the tip comes to a rest much faster and this reduces tangles. A lot.
You can get more SF guides on without affecting weight and recovery and this increases sensitivity and pulling power - you use more of the blank for both casting and fish pulling.
Also more guides spread the load on each guide better so if used correctly a single foot guide equipped rod is immensely strong...

"Having so much fun with my grandwave and 10' BM superslim"

Get yourself a small multiplier and fill it with braid and put it on a light rod. Its lots of fun. (I am really enjoying my Ambassadeurs and Omoto's...)

"Does the KR Concept for you work better for casting for medium/light rods in 20lb range rather than the NGC?"

Better. KR is significantly lighter even if you opt for what most of us can afford ie stainless and Alconite. And don't be scared of casting heavier braid either.

 

[Dr halibut hoffman]

Lekker ,thanks for the reply..

"KR Concept layout guides:
KL25H KL12H KL8M KL7L to KT7s"

Looks that is what I should have done..and will do?

My mate just got himself a little trini 10 for this sorta application, fishing light mono..what a beaut!

Another thing, for multipliers, what advantage will the KR system offer if any, what is the best setup for that application?

 

[Tackle-holic]

"KR Concept layout guides:
KL25H KL12H KL8M KL7L to KT7s"

Looks that is what I should have done..and will do?

If it were my own rod yip....

My mate just got himself a little trini 10 for this sorta application, fishing light mono..what a beaut!

Another thing, for multipliers, what advantage will the KR system offer if any, what is the best setup for that application?

Takes a bit of thinking but the advantages are very similar.
KR for multiplier use needs to be adjusted from the typical bass or inshore set ups with small bait-casters Fuji publishes to suit longer rods with bigger reels.

Think about it - why do you need a large dia guide on the butt of a multiplier rod?
And heavy big-ass guides on the tip?
For what?
Small dia, high frame stripper guide and you get what you need; then rapidly step down in guide ring size and height and you get a superb set up.

I nice way to do this is with a combination of poor-man's RV's ie LC's then a KW or two down to KT's

LC20 LC16 KW10 KW8 to KT8's or if you are building a lighter actioned rod KT7's...
You could even consider LC16 to KW10 to the #8's

I use the 20/16/10/8 set up mentioned above on a 12'10 1-4 rod. It is so slick.
My heavier 12'6  2-6 will be stripped of its double foot running guides soon. No need.
Got to live by my suggestions....

 

[grootvis]

Come and see me with your rod. Will have it sorted. I've rebuilt quite a few of those Excelers and understand their action and what they need. Just bring the reel with.
You know where to find me.

 

[Dr halibut hoffman]

Ja I better When I am in town..pm me when fish are biting!
Shame would probably break my mates heart to ask him to redo the rod..its such a nice clean job, eyes don't work though..pity.

 

[Pylstert]

Tackle-holic wrote:

"KR Concept layout guides:
KL25H KL12H KL8M KL7L to KT7s"

Looks that is what I should have done..and will do?

If it were my own rod yip....

My mate just got himself a little trini 10 for this sorta application, fishing light mono..what a beaut!

Another thing, for multipliers, what advantage will the KR system offer if any, what is the best setup for that application?

Takes a bit of thinking but the advantages are very similar.
KR for multiplier use needs to be adjusted from the typical bass or inshore set ups with small bait-casters Fuji publishes to suit longer rods with bigger reels.

[sub]Think about it - why do you need a large dia guide on the butt of a multiplier rod?
And heavy big-ass guides on the tip?[/sub]
For what?
Small dia, high frame stripper guide and you get what you need; then rapidly step down in guide ring size and height and you get a superb set up.

I nice way to do this is with a combination of poor-man's RV's ie LC's then a KW or two down to KT's

LC20 LC16 KW10 KW8 to KT8's or if you are building a lighter actioned rod KT7's...
You could even consider LC16 to KW10 to the #8's

I use the 20/16/10/8 set up mentioned above on a 12'10 1-4 rod. It is so slick.
My heavier 12'6  2-6 will be stripped of its double foot running guides soon. No need.
Got to live by my suggestions....

to throw a moerse thick leader with a knot as in 1.2mm knotted to 0.6mm. I understand that you may not need the big bottom guide but how do you get away with the small tip eye? I have often thought of this as I understand the advantages of more smaller, lighter rings instead of these clumsy big things. Will you be able to cast such a big knot through a 12 tip eye instead of a 16?

 

[grootvis]

Fg knot.

 

[Pylstert]

That knot doesnt work casting through eyes been there done that and will still be huge. Does it even work with mono?

 

[grootvis]

I've been fishing .55 mono mainline with 1mm flouro leader. Mainline fg to braid insert to fg to flouro leader. I use size 10 running guides. Can only just hear knot through guides and never had to change due to abrasion. It works and works very very well. I like a longer leader and run it through the guides.

I'm confident enough to even scale down to size 8 runners.

What I have noticed though from other anglers is that they making their knot far to long. In total my knot is no more than 10 to 15mm long. The longer you make it the easier it loosens up.

 

[Tackle-holic]

to throw a moerse thick leader with a knot as in 1.2mm knotted to 0.6mm. I understand that you may not need the big bottom guide but how do you get away with the small tip eye? I have often thought of this as I understand the advantages of more smaller, lighter rings instead of these clumsy big things. Will you be able to cast such a big knot through a 12 tip eye instead of a 16?

To be clear I was referring to a set up using a Trini 10 not a shark rod
Why don't you consider a wind-on leader instead of a knotted connection?

 

[Pylstert]

grootvis wrote:

I've been fishing .55 mono mainline with 1mm flouro leader. Mainline fg to braid insert to fg to flouro leader. I use size 10 running guides. Can only just hear knot through guides and never had to change due to abrasion. It works and works very very well. I like a longer leader and run it through the guides.

I'm confident enough to even scale down to size 8 runners.

What I have noticed though from other anglers is that they making their knot far to long. In total my knot is no more than 10 to 15mm long. The longer you make it the easier it loosens up.

Thanks, slightly confused though..... hollow braid that you FG to your 0.55 then you chinese finger the leader to hollow braid? So you basically make a bunch of windons without the loop? Regarding the FG, 3 times bitten 4 times shy. Just don't trust it throwing through the eyes though.

 

[Pylstert]

Tackle-holic wrote:

to throw a moerse thick leader with a knot as in 1.2mm knotted to 0.6mm. I understand that you may not need the big bottom guide but how do you get away with the small tip eye? I have often thought of this as I understand the advantages of more smaller, lighter rings instead of these clumsy big things. Will you be able to cast such a big knot through a 12 tip eye instead of a 16?

To be clear I was referring to a set up using a Trini 10 not a shark rod
Why don't you consider a wind-on leader instead of a knotted connection?

I have used them from time to time, I just don't always have the time to make them. They generally work well, suppose that is a viable option. I actually have a rod with 12 alconites on I am going to mess around with a thick wind on and see how it performs. If it works and the time comes for an eye fix up then can get rid of the big eyes. I must say though that being able to quickly tie a thick leader on easily on the beach with a back to back fig 8 if you don't have a wind on is really a bonus. Saves a lot of fishing time. These complicated knots are all fair and well when you are sitting at home tying them, but they don't always work so well when fishing. You catch fish when your line is in the water not while pontificating over the latest high tech knot.

 

[Dr halibut hoffman]

Been casting FG's through my guides since I got them down..But they are less practiced these days with mainly back to back fig8s and multiplier rig..I'm just going to pack away the grinder I think till the rod is sorted..

But ja, what grootvis says is true, and you should be able to cast your fgs through the eyes all day long. In fact mine will generally last for many fishes/trips until the leader is too scuffed or scraped, then I'll have to retie. I like to have the knot at the eye closest to the reel and a fairly long leader and unless eyes are ***, I can cast hundreds or times and the knot won't unravel. If I tie it wrong it will cast off pretty soon enough or give when pressure from a afish is applied, I will test them all before fishing by pulling them as hard as I can. I use the knot from bass to calamari to tuna. If it is casting off or unraveling or giving, you're tying it wrong and must practice first and destructively test till you find a method that works for you, once you have it right, it is as strong as you want a knot.. I want a leader knot that will go literally a pound or two before the mainline does, but that can be pulled right up till almost the mainline giving, the FG does that.. Only thing I have found stronger (not tried PR) is a stitch which I found too strong for most applications unless joining braid mainlines etc. where you want 100% connection..

Short 20 plait FGs are the way forward, once done grab the tag and mainline , wet and pull and slide up and down till it grabs, then do a half hitch or two to lock and grab a glove or cloth and pull the mainline till the braid goes from opaque to lucid in the wraps..Then I cut the tag of the leader, make a tiny bobble with a lighter and half hitch till the end of the mono, a tight half hitch behind the bobble and then a few more to make a ramp, then two series of half hitches that oppose each other..

Not sold on the mono to braid to leader yet haha seems like a mission with redundant knots.. But .55 mono to 1.2mm leader makes a big enough knot but hey it casts fine and that is what I'm often spinning with so ja must have eyes big enough for that if I do a KR multiplier rod..at the moment I'm casting as far as I could with grinder and K'series redone exage and a slim fg knot, with my shorter mono rig and .55 and a fat leader knot and normal old school fuji eyes.

For the heavy spinning I'm sold on the mono though, has too many advantages over the braid to not use it, I just had to learn to cast it.. Now that I can I'll admit it is more of a pleasure when you hit that sweet cast, like a perfect golf swing (not that I can) and it flies where you want it to go with no effort..the braid cast is more of a hack, the hum of the multipliers bearings and spool and the way the line flows off the reel..Gives me great satisfaction..haha

But then again the light stuff..thats where a grinder shines and the braid gives you advantage..Times when you must feel what is going on..

All a bit off topic but hey..

 

[Pylstert]

Thanks I will try and find someone that can show me how to tie it differently, but I doubt I will use it on spinning rigs again through the eyes, comes with too many other hassles and since I have let the knot hang outside the tip eye spinning reels and braid have been an absolute pleasure no matter how bad the wind has been and no deteriorating knots. Come to think of it I now may as well use the Bob Sands knot as it is outside the tip eye