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SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > General Angling Topics > Saltwater Fishing > Long distance casting The pedulum cast versus the so-called South African cast technique


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Long distance casting The pedulum cast versus the so-called South African cast technique  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:10 am
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Enigma
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In my opinion the BEST casting reel without equal on the market.

Off the shelf without tuning is capable of 270m casts (not me)

Thing of beauty but only hold 300m of 0.35mm mono..... fine for Stumpies and small kob.

Super Tuned Daiwa 7HT Mag

Attachment: 7HT Mag.jpg (Downloaded 941 times)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 04:31 pm
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Pylstert
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Thanks Enigma, I snapped a medium HMG using a 5oz sinker, now I know better! I actually just angled the backswing back more than normal with disastrous consequences.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 05:37 pm
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kaspaas
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Enigma wrote: In my opinion the BEST casting reel without equal on the market.

Off the shelf without tuning is capable of 270m casts (not me)

Thing of beauty but only hold 300m of 0.35mm mono..... fine for Stumpies and small kob.

Super Tuned Daiwa 7HT Mag
Sigh........((wideeye))

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 05:48 pm
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Strepie
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kaspaas wrote: Enigma wrote: In my opinion the BEST casting reel without equal on the market.

Off the shelf without tuning is capable of 270m casts (not me)

Thing of beauty but only hold 300m of 0.35mm mono..... fine for Stumpies and small kob.

Super Tuned Daiwa 7HT Mag
Sigh........((wideeye))

Load it with 30lb braid oom Kas then it should take more than 300m.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 05:50 pm
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kaspaas
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Enigma wrote: Considering all of these questions and the fact that Kaspaas is limited due to injury to power cast SA style then his considering of the Pendulum for beach fishing is relevant.

Even if a gentle full pendulum punches his 6oz with Kobbie bait 30m further then on a place like Paaltjie along Bayden Powel he will more than double the area he has to fish on that shallow stretch.
Thanks Craig. I had a good look at several vids on the subject.  It seems that the pendulum cast is definitely a less strenuous style and uses less brute force.

It is the sudden jerk of the SA style that really hurts me. This affects the power I put in it and subsequently the distance achieved.

The move from the old EXAGE to the lighter Technium has already made the casting easier. Hopefully I can improve on it by adopting this style also.

@ Ruaan, jy moenie neuk nie! Daai speelding kos nie die prys van 'n bottel goeie osbloed nie!! he he. Mammie was al hoeka krapperig oor die laaste "noodsaaklikhede" waarmee ek annerdag by die huis gekom het. LOL

 

Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2014 05:53 pm by kaspaas

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 09:44 pm
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Simen
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Enigma wrote:
Simen.

Deep wading and casting is one of the reasons that Grinders are growing in popularity as your head can be under water and you can punch a full overhead cast and not worry about an overwind.

As for the multiplier, there are 2 main styles of casting in a deep wade.

If you have enough shoulder power get to neck deep and do a powerful direct overhead thump with a shortish drop. I'm no good at this and in rough surf you have little or no spool control.

I wade to where I will be neck deep once a wave has washed through and time my cast with the water sucking back. Once my chest is open I cast a SA cast with a long drop (as far down as the bottom guide) My cast comes through the side and rotates overhead and I probably get 80-100% of my normal cast in.

Gareth Wolfaardt uses much the same cast when wading


Agree, most of us use the casting method as what you described when being chest hight in the water.

Grinders still a big question here due to underwater obstacles, not really taking off as it has in SA.

(Maybe we are just old generation anglers that still manage to land the odd big one)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:26 pm
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bambooskollie
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watch and learn from the master.

STANDING ON ICE - no foot movement.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W3ZhYd8490

Kaspaas - practice casting a tennis ball as a weight and practice a very slow rotation.

If the ball is too light wrap it up with some electrical tape.

Do not let the weight control your cast, You must be in control of the casting weight.

This ofcourse is after you get permission from your orthopeadic surgeon to commence with pendulum casting practice.

;)

Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:52 pm by bambooskollie

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 11:39 pm
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OTGman
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kaspaas wrote:

I have watched several demos on the internet and it appears that us South Africans have our own unique style of casting while most of the rest of the world adopts the so-called Pendulum cast technique. I have personally never seen anyone actually using this technique and haven't tried it myself. Anyone out here that uses this technique and is it really such a good technique to reach good distances without having to depend on "brute force" to get it?

I have been so frustrated with my casting that I have actually considered offering a reward of R500 for anyone that can couch me to reach say 120 meters with baited tackle! LOL



Hi,
You do not need to swing a lead above your head like Sir Mackellow. Look at how Wesley Rapson does his cast and how Danny Moeskop does his cast. The difference is where and when the sinker makes 90deg to rod tip. When that happens, the rod bends during body rotation. You send the sinker out with slingshot effect by pushing it out with your masterhand. But there is one problem, the more you punch, the more forces pushing you into the sea. The more violence from right hand, the more brakes you need in your reel. Modern casters employ a technique to pull with left hand and push with right. The use of both hands is smoother than butter and soap, exactly what Mackellow teaches. Punch-pull.
For that to happen, you need a rod capable of storing energy as you turn (bending). No distance for straight iron stick.

With your existing knowledge of swinging the lead, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4GNVPYet4) swing it right angle to the tip instead of outwards at 180deg. Look at target and bring the rod from side to hit it. Do not perform the overhead chop with the cast. The rod will have abrupt turn of 90deg and lose whatever bend you put in it. On extreme scenario, the tip breaks due to twist for folding the tip at right angle. I cannot recommend how big an arc, some people can cast 270deg arc, some 180, some smaller. Generally bigger arc gives you more time to build power for bending the rod.

This form of pendulum is called the flat arc pendulum. What it can do is seen below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rpx35rQlM

Last edited on Thu Jul 17th, 2014 11:46 pm by OTGman

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 11:43 pm
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Enigma
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That's Danny casting a hockey ball (7oz) he makes it look like he's throwing a table tennis ball.

We use tennis balls for our freshwater casting as it simulates a non aerodynamic rig, as one would use in fishing.

We have a wire (like on a dingle dangle through it with rings on the end to connect to. To get to the required weight to match the rigs we are simulating we cut a small slit into the top of the ball and put gravel in to increase the weight.

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 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2014 12:00 am
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DJP
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Kry vir oom 'n medium grinder setup. 13ft stok met sagte tip wat 5oz kan gooi met aas. Size 10000 of bietjie groter katrol met 30lb braid. Dan kan oom heeldag 100-120m gooi sonder worries van kraaineste ens ens.

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 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2014 12:02 am
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OTGman
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I have a video of me with Blue Marlin SS80-100-430 on 125g.
http://youtu.be/ssofZS5XlzI
The maximum amount of bend I can generate is this. Since it isn't officially measured, take it as 120m. It is an example of how big an arc can be casted.

Attachment: 10325145_10201964723748768_603742758238341259_n.jpg (Downloaded 890 times)

Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2014 12:03 am by OTGman

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 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2014 12:53 am
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flippy
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OTGman wrote:
kaspaas wrote:

I have watched several demos on the internet and it appears that us South Africans have our own unique style of casting while most of the rest of the world adopts the so-called Pendulum cast technique. I have personally never seen anyone actually using this technique and haven't tried it myself. Anyone out here that uses this technique and is it really such a good technique to reach good distances without having to depend on "brute force" to get it?

I have been so frustrated with my casting that I have actually considered offering a reward of R500 for anyone that can couch me to reach say 120 meters with baited tackle! LOL



Hi,
You do not need to swing a lead above your head like Sir Mackellow. Look at how Wesley Rapson does his cast and how Danny Moeskop does his cast. The difference is where and when the sinker makes 90deg to rod tip. When that happens, the rod bends during body rotation. You send the sinker out with slingshot effect by pushing it out with your masterhand. But there is one problem, the more you punch, the more forces pushing you into the sea. The more violence from right hand, the more brakes you need in your reel. Modern casters employ a technique to pull with left hand and push with right. The use of both hands is smoother than butter and soap, exactly what Mackellow teaches. Punch-pull.
For that to happen, you need a rod capable of storing energy as you turn (bending). No distance for straight iron stick.

With your existing knowledge of swinging the lead, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4GNVPYet4) swing it right angle to the tip instead of outwards at 180deg. Look at target and bring the rod from side to hit it. Do not perform the overhead chop with the cast. The rod will have abrupt turn of 90deg and lose whatever bend you put in it. On extreme scenario, the tip breaks due to twist for folding the tip at right angle. I cannot recommend how big an arc, some people can cast 270deg arc, some 180, some smaller. Generally bigger arc gives you more time to build power for bending the rod.

This form of pendulum is called the flat arc pendulum. What it can do is seen below. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67rpx35rQlM


((goodp_ always enjoy reading and soaking up your posts otgman :thankie;)

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 Posted: Fri Jul 18th, 2014 10:07 am
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kaspaas
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Thanks guys. To state that I've been given much food for thought is an understatement, but with the current weather in Cape Town I have a lot of time this weekend to follow up on all the links posted here. LOL

@Dirk (DJP), over-winds are no longer an issue for me. I had Jonathan install magnets in both my Toriums (20 and 30) recently and I must say one can definitely see the difference. It increased my distance also as I no longer have to keep my thumb on the spool when casting.

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 Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2014 07:51 pm
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Cuban Cigar
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Enigma wrote:
In my opinion the BEST casting reel without equal on the market.

Off the shelf without tuning is capable of 270m casts (not me)

Thing of beauty but only hold 300m of 0.35mm mono..... fine for Stumpies and small kob.

Super Tuned Daiwa 7HT Mag
The problem with these comp casting reels are not so much the line capacity, but rather the ultra slow effective retrieve per crank.

The small diameter spool combined with the 5.2:1 gear ratio, only yield 28 inches per crank - more than enough for retrieving the sinker on a casting pitch, but useless to bring your sinker(with or without bait or fish)over the rough terrain after a cast. Fishing on a pure sand bottom is another story.

In comparison, the narrow spooled Daiwa Saltist BG 35 with 6.4:1 ratio, produces 48 inches per crank and the Trinidad 16A, 46 inches at 6.2:1 !

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 Posted: Tue Jul 22nd, 2014 10:06 pm
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Enigma
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The discussion point is casting and not so much retrieve.

Although slow the small swept handle allows, like in the case of the Abu 6500 for rapid spin and planes a 3 and 4oz weight on the last 40m of retrieve.

I suppose it's all checks and balances with one you gain distance and the other you gain speed.

Where I first fished the Millionaire and C6500 Level wind was on the wild coast and I used them to plug for Garrick and Yellowtail (the Millionaire with Carbontex provides up to 11kg of drag) This I did with permission of the Legendary Malcolm Botha with his own reels and 400/2+2 Blue Marlin plugging rods.

YEs I wouldn't recommend it for rocky bank fishing for Galjoen but then again for Gallies you don't have to cast 200m.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 01:40 pm
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Cuban Cigar
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Enigma wrote:
The discussion point is casting and not so much retrieve.

Although slow the small swept handle allows, like in the case of the Abu 6500 for rapid spin and planes a 3 and 4oz weight on the last 40m of retrieve.

I suppose it's all checks and balances with one you gain distance and the other you gain speed.

Where I first fished the Millionaire and C6500 Level wind was on the wild coast and I used them to plug for Garrick and Yellowtail (the Millionaire with Carbontex provides up to 11kg of drag) This I did with permission of the Legendary Malcolm Botha with his own reels and 400/2+2 Blue Marlin plugging rods.

YEs I wouldn't recommend it for rocky bank fishing for Galjoen but then again for Gallies you don't have to cast 200m.
Hi Craig !

Make no mistake, those little reels are very usable in conditions where the fast retrieve is not needed and I still use my (like new)Abu Sweden Ambassadeur 5500C that I bought way back in 1975 as a schoolkid, when fishing estuaries and other "softground" spots.

It has served me really well and has many kob, elf, grunters and steenies "on the clock".

I mentioned the retrieve as I happen to know kaspaas, who started this thread and for the r&s fishing that he does here in the Cape, the slow retrieve will restrict and frustrate him - I spoke to him at the monthly SSEC-WC meeting last night.

You are spot on - we sometimes want so badly to get the "perfect allrounder", that we forget about "horses for courses" and can end up with a setup, that is Jack of all trades and master of none !

I'm no competitive distance caster myself, but if I had to choose that sport, I would certainly have to test and pick between the various custom Abu and Daiwa comp reels that rule in that application.

I do feel for the sake of kaspaas and many others (myself included)that we can benefit by using a somewhat lighter rig that includes a slightly lighter/shorter, but powerfull modern rod (does not have to be as stiff as a pole)matched with a finetuned modern reel, slightly thinner nylon or braid and a compact bait clipped to your sinker.

I find that I can cast way further with my Poseidon HMG Lite 13'6" and a modern magged reel like the Saltist BG35H and Trini 16A and a 5oz sinker/30il Fireline combo, than with any of the many 14ft rods up to 8oz that I have owned through the years.

This difference get bigger as we grow older and weaker and even more so if you are not a big and strong boy !

That is probably the reason why now, so many of us fish 11ft 4oz rods and small reels for the smaller edibles in the Cape - modern technology gave us these smaller and lighter, but still rather powerful rigs - cash in and make use of it when your type of fishing allows it and I'm sure that you will use your heavy artillary less and less.

There are some really nice combos of 12-13'6" rods and compact modern reels, that are worth looking at.

Great fun to scale the tools to the size of the average expected fish !

Cheers

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 Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 03:41 pm
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DJP
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kaspaas wrote:
Thanks guys. To state that I've been given much food for thought is an understatement, but with the current weather in Cape Town I have a lot of time this weekend to follow up on all the links posted here. LOL

@Dirk (DJP), over-winds are no longer an issue for me. I had Jonathan install magnets in both my Toriums (20 and 30) recently and I must say one can definitely see the difference. It increased my distance also as I no longer have to keep my thumb on the spool when casting.


Thats all good, my advice will still be to get a grinder setup. At least do yourself a favour and have a cast somebody elses setup (a decent one) and see for yourself.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 04:13 pm
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dan009
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Your answer is the all new bait caster shoots your bait 280 meters from the shore no more casting your bait!!!!!

Attachment: 558559_409989749058910_1053682056_n.jpg (Downloaded 758 times)

Last edited on Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 06:04 pm by dan009

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 Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 05:22 pm
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rofflign
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Yoh! Could double as a weapon when fishing at dubious spots.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 23rd, 2014 06:01 pm
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kaspaas
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Hmmmm.....fancy having to log that thing with you up Die Plaat or somewhere similar! he he

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