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Long distance casting The pedulum cast versus the so-called South African cast technique  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2014 11:44 pm
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Enigma
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Not what I can do but what I have seen the guys do on Casting trials at inland provinces and what I have seen Johan Beukes and Reinier doing.

In other words these are Provincial/National A side Anglers who fish competitively and practice the skills.

Best I've seen with a yellowtail head and weight (total weight of 360gr)was between 134-142m on a Trin 20 size reel.

Free casting with minimum line diameter of 0.40 and maximum sinker weight of 8oz with a 20cm dummie bait (Mackie sized bait from Conveyor belt) is between 145-165m for the A side anglers.

Johan Beukes with 6oz on Saltiga Surf 30 with clipped strip bait 207m measured.

Yes these are all under controlled conditions and not standing on rocks or wading etc, etc but measured with a lazer range finder.

Then again with these guys wading skills I have seen them wade 100m and put a bait out a further 120m+ and I'm talking a small tail or Bonnie head.

Reinier's Winning shark at the Sealine Birthday bash at Hole in the wall....... I put in a +/- 100m cast with my slide sinker off Mhlongwane. He then put a Bonnie head with a Bonnie and yellowtail cutlet at least 30m past it. Using a Trini 50 a 2mm leader and 0.60mm line. He was on with the winning fish before I even got my slide bait under the first wave.

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 Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2014 11:55 pm
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Simen
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OK, looks like I will have to do a trial with both and see where I get.

Second question, (and I think most of us cast this way, at least knee deep in water, or run in when a wave pulls back), what cast is then used?

Third, what is used when wading - chest deep, as you know that is a norm here.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 12:02 am
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flippy
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rofflign wrote:
My personal opinion is a lighter reel and rod works better as you get older and lose strength.

Although,after reading this you've inspired me to go and dust off my Torium 30 and 1468 to go and see if I can still cast it properly.


((goodp_ i missed that completely.. can't agree more.

was wrecking my brain earlier on two things where casting is concerned.. one South African

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 12:02 am
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flippy
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Muri wrote:
flippy wrote:
personally think its half technique and other half your tackle.. is your tackle designed to reach the distances you want with the way you cast it?

to help you improve maybe if you can get your hands on a slimline version like the blue marlin / pentagon range of rods that.. check some of these posts

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=8289&forum_id=10&highlight=blue+marlin+slimline

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=72746&forum_id=1&highlight=blue+marlin+slimline

also the slimline pentagon might well help you gain better distance for less effort

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=64134&forum_id=10&highlight=pentagon+slimline

http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=85402&forum_id=1&highlight=pentagon+slimline


Agree, I believe it is all teqhnique as well as some strenth in upper body.How fast you bring your arm over.
Once you this right you can easily gain another 50M plus.
Its not impossible..


((goodp_

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 12:07 am
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flippy
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enigma where reels especially is concerned should we be fruiting about distance.. in the sense that South Africans are basically brought up where R&S fishing goes using the toriums etc and in your post you mentioned a saltiga 30 that a caster used and got huge distance and ill explain huge better

europeans for casting use the 7ht and abu 5500 type size reels.. okay rod is long at 14ft but reel is practically non existent where weight etc is concerned which could determine overall length casted out because of weight

are South Africans years ahead where id i say 150 for a South African and a European says 250 its the same when you take into consideration different types of reels used.. europeans 7ht/abu South Africans saltiga/trini/torium

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 12:08 am
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flippy
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by the way post is not meant to be offensive

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:19 am
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Enigma
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Toiurnament casting with the small Magged reels is done with 0.25-0.35mm mono on small reels.

Johan Beukes out of Tournament casts with his Tuned ABU up to a measured 283m and in tournament a 269mm and an aggregate of 944m (ie his best cast in each of the following 75gr, 100gr, 125gr and 150gr added together and totaled)

The average European angler and even caster does not get to 150 and definitely not with a bait.

Fishing conditions and target species differ hugely in Europe and in the UK the most common sie reel will equate to or is our SL/Grandwave 20 and a 30 is classed as large and heavy tackle is classed as 20lbs.

Continental Europe fish almost exclusively with Grinders and long butt rods that will cast 4-6oz (no grapnels in the Mediterranean side) with worm baits and they fish from 0.16mm-0.30mm mono. Due to the nature of the water they fish and the species they catch they are required to fish at long ranges in tournament.

Some of the Awa-Shima Europe staff fish for Spain and Italy and they are required to make a 200m cast with a lead before being allowed entrance to their National trials.

These distances seem extreme but the baits and tackle used differ hugely and even our RSA anglers who fish the world champs with these techniques of which Martin Dowie is RSA #1 and World #9 (3 year Ranking for FIPSed)and Charl Marais , Mike Pautz and others all easily measured casts ove 190m (for the masters) and over 200m for the Seniors.

In fishing tournaments the Full Pendulum casts are not allowed (for safety reasons) so they use the SA, Off The Ground and Hatteras casts.

Baits and rigs used are #12-#6 hooks with worm baits and 0.20-0.25mm hooklines)and fish with teeth ie any sharks do not count for any points in competition

In RSA we fish 200lbs steel with Grapnels and mainlines of 0.40-0.60mm in competition. For maximum points we fish for sharks so require capacity and power.

For our R&S we are exposed to open ocean and use what the rest of the world considers boat reels to fish in the surf.

Why on earth such big tackle my clients from Europe ask me at Gamtoos. They try their 0.30mm on a SL20..... cant get a sinker to sit in that wash......

Eventually gets a sinker to sit, after his cast and wade he has maybe 50m of line left on his reel, picks up a 15kg Hound and is stripped to the drum in no time and ends up wading neck deep on more than one occasion and eventually lands his fish.

What would have happened if it was a 30kg kob or 15kg Steenie....... stripped and empty.

Our shores are exposed to Wide open ocean with nothing stopping the currents between Australia, Antarctica and South America so there is no way the conditions can be compared.

If your target in the surf is going to be sand steenbras, blacktail and stumpies then fish an SL20 or ABU 5500 with 15lbs line and make monster casts but forget about your trophy Steenie, Cracker, Kob and forget about fishing in water where the swell is up to over 1.5m with a side wash.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:29 am
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Enigma
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Long story short.

We fish wild ocean with huge environmental affects. This requires (Euro style) heavy tackle to keep the bait in the feeding zone.

We have a much bigger chance of hooking and landing 10kg+ fish

We fish with livebaits that are as big or bigger than the average fish targeted in Europe.

Furthermore any form of wading in European competitions will lead to disqualification, you may never be wet above your knees or you WILL be Disqualified. So they are 110% dependent on distance you can cast.

Here is a picture of a great days catch in Europe (all legal in Europe where they caught these fish)

Attachment: awas4.jpg (Downloaded 1244 times)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:30 am
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Enigma
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These are the rods and reels used...... note the water conditions in the background

Attachment: awas3.jpg (Downloaded 1243 times)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:31 am
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Enigma
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These are the lines used for rigs and mainlines (see diameters on packs)

Attachment: awas22.jpg (Downloaded 1244 times)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:32 am
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the rest

Attachment: awa-as1.jpg (Downloaded 1244 times)

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:36 am
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This is a broad generalization on both European and RSA angling styles and techniques but presented as to answer why tackle differs so vastly.



Imagine getting a 200m cast with a bloodworm bait of Macassar, now you have 50m of 0.35mm line left on the reel and a 15kg Steenie picks you up. Now you'd be wishing you had your Tor 20 with 0.40mm and another 300m of braid backing to your disposal......

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 01:45 am
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Simen.

Deep wading and casting is one of the reasons that Grinders are growing in popularity as your head can be under water and you can punch a full overhead cast and not worry about an overwind.

As for the multiplier, there are 2 main styles of casting in a deep wade.

If you have enough shoulder power get to neck deep and do a powerful direct overhead thump with a shortish drop. I'm no good at this and in rough surf you have little or no spool control.

I wade to where I will be neck deep once a wave has washed through and time my cast with the water sucking back. Once my chest is open I cast a SA cast with a long drop (as far down as the bottom guide) My cast comes through the side and rotates overhead and I probably get 80-100% of my normal cast in.

Gareth Wolfaardt uses much the same cast when wading

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 02:09 am
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flippy
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appreciate the time taken to answer :thankie((goodp_((goodp_


i hope Oom Kaspaas might well consider that given the combo he uses and distance he is getting thats nothing really to be somewhat concerned about.

i understand at times it might be frustrating if he has to watch tv and joe public pulled out a nice blinklyf but as far i know there was one person that offered casting lessons and i think it was Waft's Cape Town Agent Robbie Janse if i remember correctly

i don't have his contact details but maybe if someone here does can pm Kaspaas if he wants it and things can be taken further

to answer Kaspaas one question i have seen Yusuf who owns Waft do the pendulum on a few occasions and we were at milnerton.. he is a good age with a hoop and thin arms lol (no offence) and standing on the roadside of the lagoon he belted that sinker over the lagoon and when it was about to go past the third house easily but just above the first he stopped the sinker and it fell in the lagoon

if done right its an awesome sight.. me saying it and seeing it are two different things and must be seen to be appreciated.. as we know enigma also put up a great read the water post in the sticky's and anyone/everyone should have a read through it as sometimes distance is not everything.

::tight:

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 03:19 am
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kaspaas
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I must say this thread ended up becoming a damn interesting read. I know distance isn't always a guarantee for fishing success but it is a fact that being able to reach the deeper water definitely provides an angler more options and a better chance on success.
Simen will remember that I caught my pb Kob of 17 kgs at about 50 meters near the boat wreck (forgotten the boat's name) during our epic Angola trip. We were fishing in what was almost gale force wind blowing from the side. We had a fairly deep gully running along the side with a sand bank about 70 to 80 meters from the bank. Everyone was casting to get over the sandbank into the deep water. I knew I wasn't going to get there in the wind. I would have ended up on the sandbank. So i decided to chuck my bait some 50 meters in front of me and hope there is a channel somewhere that runs into the deep sea that might bring in some large Kob. The side current was also so strong that even grapple sinkers simply washed out every time I cast in. It wasn't long before that Kob swallowed my chokka bait on a little 4/0 J-hook. Toe was ek darem windgat, ne! Vertel almal hulle is stupid om so ver te cast as die vis hier voor is! Well, nobody listened initially but when I hooked another two Kob of 8 an 13 kgs, everyone was casting in the shallows! LOL

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 09:17 am
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Koper
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Agreed Dirk - Made Sticky, been a while since we had one off these.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:26 am
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Enigma
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Kaspaas, as you say fish are never always in the shallows but my argument is and will remain.....

An angler who can cast 200m can cast 20m as well and at 100m is usually way more accurate than a guy who can only cast 100m.

The day the fish are at 50m, 99% of anglers can fish there and as in your case of frustration the day the fish are at 140m only those who can fish there have any luck.

In competition fishing ie as in Europe where each angler has a lane and is restricted to catching fish in his lane of 20m wide the guy who can cast a max of 100m has 200sqm to fish whereas the guy who can get 220m has 4400sqm.

On a flat beach the first 70m probably won't hold many sizable fish so the 100m caster has 300sqm to fish whereas the guys casting to 220m has 1500sqm (5 x as much fishable water)to find fish and in the deeper water has a higher probability of getting bigger fish.

Hence the reason why the guys who can cast further in a competitive environment always have an edge (if they use it properly and don't keep trying to fish over a bank while the fish are biting in front of the bank)

Lets face it, whether you are a social angler or a league angler it all becomes competitive. That is just how we males are and fishing is about the biggest and the best. In a group of shad fishermen there is even competition as to who has the most and who has the biggest. Hell even here on sealine we have the Young Guns and Ballies we have the Steenie Brag and the Gallie Brag and there are rules for verification of submission and a leaderboard for each, on which a keen eye is kept.

All shore angling success is directly coupled to your ability to cast (accurately or distances required)

Yes reading water and bait selection is very important but what does being able to read here the channel is then selecting the perfect bait for that spot..... BUT YOU CANNOT CAST TO THE SPOT.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:29 am
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Enigma
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Considering all of these questions and the fact that Kaspaas is limited due to injury to power cast SA style then his considering of the Pendulum for beach fishing is relevant.

Even if a gentle full pendulum punches his 6oz with Kobbie bait 30m further then on a place like Paaltjie along Bayden Powel he will more than double the area he has to fish on that shallow stretch.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:34 am
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Enigma
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Let's take a simple scenario.

The Kob are feeding at 150m and there is a reasonable current with a lot of 1-1.5m wave action.

Angler A can cast 100m and Angler B can cast 170m (fishing chokka and prawn combo).

Angler A has to wade 50m+ in to over waste deep, get knocked around by the waves then has to time his casts between waves, wade out again and stand freezing on the beach. But the time he has made 20 of these casts he is absolutely buggered, elated with fish but buggered.

Angler B, baits up, plants a 170m cast and is on and playing a fish before Angler A is even out of the water for his first cast. He is comfy and dry expending a 1/4 of the energy and has a great day of fishing.

Angler A has the energy for a few cold ones and a Kob Braai this evening.

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 Posted: Thu Jul 17th, 2014 10:57 am
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rofflign
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Enigma wrote: Toiurnament casting with the small Magged reels is done with 0.25-0.35mm mono on small reels.

Johan Beukes out of Tournament casts with his Tuned ABU up to a measured 283m and in tournament a 269mm and an aggregate of 944m (ie his best cast in each of the following 75gr, 100gr, 125gr and 150gr added together and totaled)

The average European angler and even caster does not get to 150 and definitely not with a bait.

Fishing conditions and target species differ hugely in Europe and in the UK the most common sie reel will equate to or is our SL/Grandwave 20 and a 30 is classed as large and heavy tackle is classed as 20lbs.

Continental Europe fish almost exclusively with Grinders and long butt rods that will cast 4-6oz (no grapnels in the Mediterranean side) with worm baits and they fish from 0.16mm-0.30mm mono. Due to the nature of the water they fish and the species they catch they are required to fish at long ranges in tournament.

Some of the Awa-Shima Europe staff fish for Spain and Italy and they are required to make a 200m cast with a lead before being allowed entrance to their National trials.

These distances seem extreme but the baits and tackle used differ hugely and even our RSA anglers who fish the world champs with these techniques of which Martin Dowie is RSA #1 and World #9 (3 year Ranking for FIPSed)and Charl Marais , Mike Pautz and others all easily measured casts ove 190m (for the masters) and over 200m for the Seniors.

In fishing tournaments the Full Pendulum casts are not allowed (for safety reasons) so they use the SA, Off The Ground and Hatteras casts.

Baits and rigs used are #12-#6 hooks with worm baits and 0.20-0.25mm hooklines)and fish with teeth ie any sharks do not count for any points in competition

In RSA we fish 200lbs steel with Grapnels and mainlines of 0.40-0.60mm in competition. For maximum points we fish for sharks so require capacity and power.

For our R&S we are exposed to open ocean and use what the rest of the world considers boat reels to fish in the surf.

Why on earth such big tackle my clients from Europe ask me at Gamtoos. They try their 0.30mm on a SL20..... cant get a sinker to sit in that wash......

Eventually gets a sinker to sit, after his cast and wade he has maybe 50m of line left on his reel, picks up a 15kg Hound and is stripped to the drum in no time and ends up wading neck deep on more than one occasion and eventually lands his fish.

What would have happened if it was a 30kg kob or 15kg Steenie....... stripped and empty.

Our shores are exposed to Wide open ocean with nothing stopping the currents between Australia, Antarctica and South America so there is no way the conditions can be compared.

If your target in the surf is going to be sand steenbras, blacktail and stumpies then fish an SL20 or ABU 5500 with 15lbs line and make monster casts but forget about your trophy Steenie, Cracker, Kob and forget about fishing in water where the swell is up to over 1.5m with a side wash.
Could not agree more!

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