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CASTING live bait  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Tue May 6th, 2014 03:44 pm
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boepens
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Mana: 
DD wrote:
Thanks Cobia. Nice trace.

Next demo - casting a live 30cm Elf. I need to see that!


bring that elf bud .ill looi it
1x clip trace to sinker and woerrrr

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 Posted: Tue May 6th, 2014 03:55 pm
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DD
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Mana: 
My personal preference is to use 2 hooks for live mullets. When using the single circle through the lip, too many times I've reeled in the head of the mullet with the rest of the body bitten off. The torture lies in the "what it could have been" thought process. The imagination runs wild with images of 10kg Elf munching at mullet. So yeah, in my humble opinion based on experiences, I always go 2 up.

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 Posted: Tue May 6th, 2014 09:12 pm
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Pslatarix
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Boep agree with you. I can for likes to frow a 30cm elvis too! Do it plenty in natal

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 Posted: Tue May 6th, 2014 11:28 pm
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Wolmossel
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Mana: 
Hooch wrote: Strange that no one has mentioned the Live Bait clip? Still in my opinion a much better way of targeting Garrick.

Gents,

Garrick are surface feeders.

Next time you swim an elf with one of these clips, please take note that it will never swim further than the white water. That's where it naturally hides AND that is where Mr Garrick will come look for it! Not to far from you and in the white water!

We sometimes try to catch fish past the fish! 

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 Posted: Wed May 7th, 2014 01:53 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
Hooch wrote:
Strange that no one has mentioned the Live Bait clip? Still in my opinion a much better way of targeting Garrick.

mr Hooch.

it's about casting live bait here.
every one can slide a live bait, but only real anglers can cast a live bait :)

hook positioning is crucial too.
at the end of the day, the fish specie you are targeting will tell weather you need one single or 2 singles or one treble hook, nylon or steel.

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 Posted: Wed May 7th, 2014 03:14 am
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COBIA777
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Hi DD

I was reading your post that I probably missed earlier regarding only coming out with the head and the rest of the body is gone.

Some readers may disagree but its normally the sharp tooth fish that leave the bits n pieces of left overs hanging on our hooks. I know for a fact during the month of October there are only two culprits on the KZN shores that will leave a left over piece, and its normally the head. The culprits are a Grey Shark and the Bus Shad, especially on a throw bait. A Garrick does not have sharp cutting teeth. They are more sandpaper like. All fish that do not have sharp teeth swallow ther prey whole Head First because if they swallow it the otherway its a choke story for the fish. All fish have fins and yip Just like our Sea Birds it goes down head first. The theory that Garrick scales a fish before he eats it does not have a place in my book of theories.

Believe me there are two ways a Garrick feeds. The Gentleman way and the Agressive way. This is determined by the number of Garrick in the area. One or Two arround its a fussy pull. Twenty or Twenty Two around the competion is tough and they eat your bait like a pack of wild dogs.

Many many Garrick have been caught on throw baits in the past and there are a few die hards that still throw a Live bait instead of sliding a livie.

River Mouth area, Mullet. ROCKY, scattered beach areas, Shad, Karranteen, Silver Bream, Blacktail. From the Ski Boat those Big Pinkies and from what I can re call is called a Varkie in the Cape waters because it grunts just like a Pig is deadly for them as well.

When livies are readily available then throw baiting is great. When the livies are scarce and you want to nurse that livie then Cilp him and slide him.

One single treble hook pinned just behind the head is more than enough for a Garrick for a throw bait. The Double hook and positioning of hooks is perfect for a throw bait shad.


Out toothy fish like Cuda, Snoek, Shad which have extremely similar like teeth chop slice and dice a bait fish up in seconds. Thats why we get that half a livie or just the head back. The other culprits are our Sharks that like I said earlier leave us with bitn n pieces on our hooks.

Last edited on Wed May 7th, 2014 03:23 am by COBIA777

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 Posted: Wed May 7th, 2014 12:01 pm
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Koper
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Mana: 
Some really good info in this thread, made Sticky!

Thanx Gents

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 Posted: Wed May 7th, 2014 04:04 pm
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i want fish
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When casting live bait for eds how often is it that a shark takes the bait?

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 Posted: Wed May 7th, 2014 10:28 pm
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COBIA777
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It could be every throw that a Shark eates you livie presented for a Garrick, Cob, Kingfish......it all depends on what is in the area. It is very noticeable when there is some sort of predatory at the spot you are fishing. Particularly when the Shad or baitfish are being thrashed by them or the suddenly go of the bite.

The tax man is always lurking.

Right time right place right bait and you will be right on with a fish.

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 Posted: Thu May 8th, 2014 12:26 am
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Stefan001
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When using a treble there is not much chance of the garrick being released after the awesome fight. Rather use 2 single kendals when you want to release the fish.

My normal trace for sliding a livie is a 5/0 snelled and 6/0 kendal on a decent sized mullet. Remember that the heavier the hook the faster the live bait will die. The one hook is put through the top lip and out just before the eyes. the other is placed along the mullets back through the skin, making the hook stand proud. This method I feel is the quickest way to get your slide to your sinker.

When I cast live bait I start at the tails side and thread the single 6/0 kendal through once. Then I pull the hook through and hook it through again ending up with a hook at the mullets head. Some plaat anglers place the hook at the tail but I have found when you cast the hook catches your sinker trace and pulls the hook out, making the mullet move up the line.

Another successful way to hook the mullet that I saw at die Saal used by some very successful builders for Garrick is to hook the mullet just below the fin in front of the tail and let her rip.

The last way is to push a piece of cable tie trough the membrane in front of the mullets eyes and locking it in place. Put another cable tie through that one around a decent circle hook and bobs your uncle. Mullet can stay alive like that for hours.

There are dozens of ways to hook a mullet, just find a simple one that you have confidence in.


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 Posted: Thu May 8th, 2014 01:25 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Mana: 
to add to this tread further:

its one thing placing your hooks in the bait.
its another thing, casting the bait with these hooks placed in the bait.

one needs to know that when a cast is made that you do not cast with a ripping action, a smooth action is preferred, other wise you could rip the hooks from the bait.

another aspect is, where do you cast the bait fish "livie"
that is the most important aspect is the placing of the baitfish.
obviously when the baitfish is hooked like cobia drew the picture, then that live bait needs to be in calm water.
if it was in a stream like environment then the bait fish will be facing down stream the whole time and will die quickly.

placing the carrier hook in the mouth area would keep the live bait alive for longer. the question is, where you have placed the bait fish, is it looking natural in the water to the hunting game fish?

so obviously you need to know, how to read the water and to know where the water would be best suited to present your live bait.

so when placing the carrier hook in the bait fish mouth, could hinder a Garrick from swallowing the baitfish as the hook is in its way.

returning to the aspect of swallowing the baitfish:
my experience is that Garrick will swallow head down first.

salmon, caught on live bait slided rigs were all swallowed from the tail "contradicting cobia post"

kingfish, they tend to smash bait so hard that nothing is left afterwards.
i have slided many baits and have caught my fare share of edible fish.
i have had many a time, small puncture wounds in shad, indicating smaller salmon did try the bait but left it alone.
even when Garrick drop your bait you will see when a Garrick had a try at it.
but kingfish, I once slided a dead shad at st lucia.
after having no pulls, or so i thought, i reeled in the shad. i inspected the shad and found that it was like the shad was hit with a 14lb hammer.
ie: crushed, the skin on the back was ripped open and the flesh was squished out. so it was burst open.

i could only conclude that a kingie came along and had a go, but missed it.
they don't worry about size etc. smashing it is the way to do business.


the other aspect is, smaller fish will try and swallow a big bait and might drop the bait.

years back we had the "chomp advert" where the small hippo tried biting the chomp and dad came along and just swallowed the chomp whole.

that is the same with your bigger fish.
they don't worry about going down head first, its in and gone and they move on.

so it is a fact that the smaller bait fish will be casted further and might be taken before the bigger bait fish.

the down side of casting a smaller baitfish, is that the vibrations set off by the smaller fish is much less then a bigger bait fish.
all game fish have the lateral line which will assist them in finding food.

so it might be a good thing to cast a bigger bait fish at night...........

the other down side to casting your bait fish is, that the bait fish is in a small area.
the bait fish could also die much quicker.

this is where sliding is better.
it does get your bait fish out in the right area, if to far to cast. the stress on the sliding is much less then a violent cast.
the bait fish now swims to the suspected feeding ground and is longer in the strike zone if needed.

although a bit off topic when sliding a baitfish i normally just assist it just past the first big wave, from there it should swim further and can be seen as a baitfish being swept away from the beech side by a rip current. this could prompt the game fish to attack.

also take note of where you cast your bait fish and when you get the pulls. that is the right area that you will quickly learn over time.

the last aspect is that if you cast a live bait, the best thing would be to stand with rod in hand.
you need to give freespool immediately after the pick-up.

on sliding you may use a pension pipe.

just one last very important aspect.
the best feeling ever is when standing with rod in hand. then sometime the baitfish becomes jerking and then the pull comes.
the pull "pick-up" of the bait fish is the best feeling ever to have on a casted live baitfish. much better then the fight.

so do try and stand with rod in hand.

daars min dinge wat n beter adrienalien rush kan gee as daai trek.

happy fishing and tight lines.

Stadig nou Willem, praat ons nog van "Casting Live Bait"?:cool:

Admin "K"

Last edited on Fri May 9th, 2014 12:40 am by willem wikkel spies

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 Posted: Thu May 8th, 2014 07:31 pm
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Wolmossel
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If I am sure of the predator's in my fishing area I cut the whole tail section off.

That mullet bleed like a pig!

The take is then in no time!

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 Posted: Fri May 9th, 2014 12:46 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Jammer Koper.
Die spelfoute reg gemaak.
ten minste het iemand alles gelees :)

ok, lets take it one step further:

I have been toiying with this all day.
because mullets are so light, and just the right bite size, have any of you thought about making a double live bait casting rig?

I think I might have it.

sinker at bottom, then Christmas tree rig with two mullets hooked with two hooks each.

the hook snoot to be connected via a back to back figure of 8 knot.

the two mullets should give off better vibrations then just the one.
because the sinker is at the bottom and baits to the top the line should be kept tight to prevent the mullets from entangling them selves.

this is just a thought and should be used to target snotties and not daggas.

I have to try it and will in june with my next st lucia trip.

lets see if I can succeed in it.

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 Posted: Fri May 9th, 2014 12:57 am
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Stefan001
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Actually saw that rig work at Struisbaai harbour a few months ago. Guy hooked 2 mullet on, cast, not even 2 seconds and an 8kg garrick had taken the bait...

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 Posted: Fri May 9th, 2014 10:50 am
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willem wikkel spies
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Stefan001 wrote:
Actually saw that rig work at Struisbaai harbour a few months ago. Guy hooked 2 mullet on, cast, not even 2 seconds and an 8kg garrick had taken the bait...

the thought is to mimmcik a small school of baitfish.
its one thing thinking of such a trace. its another thing to keep them from getting tangled!!

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 Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2014 10:28 am
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movashan
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not that I am an expert or anyting, but I learnt this little trick when targeting Garrick using a bait snap,you can snip of the top part of the tail of the live bait, the live bait will not b able to swim deep down::tight:

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 Posted: Thu Jul 10th, 2014 01:40 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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movashan wrote:
not that I am an expert or anyting, but I learnt this little trick when targeting Garrick using a bait snap,you can snip of the top part of the tail of the live bait, the live bait will not b able to swim deep down::tight:

maybe a valid point raised when sliding, but this thread is about casting live bait. clipping the tail on a casted live bait will have no effect at all.

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 Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2015 08:59 pm
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COBIA777
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Mana: 
Hi Gents, back on line again, been off for a while.

Just re capping on the casting of a live bait, in the old days there was no such thing as sliding a live bait so the only way was to cast the livie! When fishing near a river mouth there is absolutely no reason to slide a mullet at all, particularly when targeting a Leerie or Cob. Both of these fish will hunt in the shallows on the first 3hrs of a pushing tide or full tide, first two hrs outgoing.

My preferances are if near a river mouth 1 km or less then first choice would be a mullet. Anything after that then my choice would include a Shad. In rocky areas a livie choice would be a Shad, Karenteen, B/tail just depending on whats available.

Casting a livie is not easy, the more you do the better you will get. The shape of the livie is just as important as the size of the livie. Thus some careful thought should be considered, particularly if there is a slight wind which increases the posibility of an over wind. A few adjustments on spool tension will assist in reducing the overwind.

Casting a 30cm Shad is no easy task. Its not just the casting issue but also keeping the Shad in the desired area, this would mean correct lets rather say the best sinker choice , a 5oz cone sinker in calm conditions. A Shad generaly dies fast when casted. The first 15/20 minutes being absolutely crucial. A live mullet on the otherhand will last longer. Casting a live mullet is far easier in all aspects. Distance gained, less wind friction, stays live longer........

20/25 meters is all you needed with a Shad. For a mullet gaining a better distance is easier however 30 to 40 meters is good enough. Next time you vissit the surf, river mouth area, check where the mullet swim. 90% of the time just behing the shore break.

The choice of hook placement and how many hooks to use will vary from fisherman to fisherman. Absolutely very very infact extremely rarely will a Cob or Leerie not swallow a livie head first. Remember the fish is already harmed the moment it is hooked and the aim from hereon is not to inflict more harm than already is. If its in the throat and you wanna release it, do the best to remove the hook as careful as possible. Too much blood generally indicates a poor chance of survival. Once you have got your two Leeries rather stop fishing for them because thats all you are allowed. Target something else.

Generally to judge/determine/guess whats attempted to eat your livie and you have not been able to hook the fish, the following can be used.

Pierce,scrape type marks and some missing scales - most likely a Cob.
Bruise marks, partialy or completely scales missing - most likely a Leerie, Queenfish, Kingfish
Pulpy, flattend, burst open belly - most likely a flat fish.
Deep lacerations,clean and neatly bitten off, removed parts - most likely a Shark, Couta, Shad......

As said before, nothing better than having the rod n hand when getting the pull.

Tight lines gents

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 Posted: Sun Jul 12th, 2015 09:11 pm
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willem wikkel spies
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welkom terug!!!

ja ja, moet jy nou al die trade secrets uitlap hier?

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 Posted: Wed Dec 16th, 2015 03:02 pm
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Def-e-nition
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Pslatarix wrote:
Boep agree with you. I can for likes to frow a 30cm elvis too! Do it plenty in natal

the /8 I bought - was from a Bloke in natal .
wheni asked him what he was doing with such a stiff rod , he tells me " we throw whole shad for Garrick ........."

That was in 09 . obviously , my eyes popped out of my head when i heard that .
Needless to say- this rod throws anything ! ...lolol.


when throwing a Mullet on a circle- DD , how would you use a Second hook ? or would Cobia's trace , suffice ?

Ta

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