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Fuji KR Concept  Rating:  Rating
 
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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 12:05 pm
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Funny, I put BKTAG 5's on the tip section. Bounce is gone. Wonder what difference titanium framed guides would make? Other than the cost of course.... One day when I am rich and shameless I will do Torzite ringed titanium framed guides!

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 12:07 pm
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Will take some photos as soon as I am back home

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 03:18 pm
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Hope picture is clear. KR calls for imaginary line from axle to run on the outside edge of the guides...

Attachment: image.jpg (Downloaded 632 times)

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 03:23 pm
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Shows lime from spool axle

Attachment: image.jpg (Downloaded 630 times)

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 04:50 pm
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Perfect example, this just shows the inclusion of the COF into a guide spacing system.

This is probably the only system that gives you free line flow starting low in the butt section of the rod and then with small light guides use 100% of the tip.

This all shows why especially for spinning applications this allows for best casting performance and the strongest possible configuration for hook setting and pulling.

These Mitsubishi Blanks will allow you to cast weightless lures but still have enough strength to handle a 10kg Garrick

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 05:05 pm
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Enigma, thanks for taking an interest, nice to know that I am either not the only lunatic partial to these concepts or that perhaps I am not mad after all...

I have been looking for commercially available KR Concept builds
And apart from the visuals on Shimano USA's website of the new Cumara rods, have not come across one in SA.

Any ideas as to why this is? Are we in SA perhaps too sceptical of ideas like this?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 07:03 pm
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Closest to this concept are the Amia rods and they work very well.

Other than that us South Africans try and redesign the wheel.

Lowriders have been in use internationally since 2000 and our freshwater anglers only took to them in 2008 and I know of very few SA R&S guys using them......they are still using antiquated flip up guides on grinder rods ...... (we are the only country on the planet using the Flip Ups)

K Series on the Surf Rods have been brought in by Kingfisher on their Saltiga rods 6 years after they were used just about everywhere else in the world.

Shimano has a few rods now close to the principles as you are using ie the AeroCast and some of their heavy popping outfits use the K series.

I mean South Africa surf anglers fish braid on NLG guides and wonder wehy after a season their braid is all fluffed up and breaking....... the NLG has been turned to fine sand paper and abraids the braid every meter it travels over the guide...... save R400 building the rod and destroy R2000 of braid in the rods lifetime and then loose a few trophy or competition winners........

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 07:28 pm
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Penny wise Pound.....
NLG's are antiques aren't they?😁
Just went to test the premise that NGC and mono are not friends
Really? Felt and sounded awesome.
Granted it was a (Fuji Alconite) low rider equipped rod, but still...

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 07:33 pm
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Any thoughts on a beefed up surf rod friendly version on the KR bait casting set ups for the multiplier boys out there?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 07:54 pm
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I fully support u to redesign the wheel. Even if u redesign the concept I will still support u. Because end of the day like what you mentioned, it may not work due to the fishing requirement, budget and preference of most angler. So this is the only way to study how these concepts come about. I wont be surprised if u mix different guides and have a variant that cast further or make the rod recover even faster. Because the way I fish is abit different thus lead to some difference in thinking.
I need to cast as far as possible and from there reel in 10m of line every 5min. Simple reason is because we do not have productive areas where waves break. Waves breaks on our feet. No breakers only jetty. Our shore is endless stretch of sand with nothingness. Now u know why I keep talking about distance and envy how you guys fish.

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 08:39 pm
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I will have a bash at it and see how it goes!
Just unearthed a 28 year old ABU Ambassadeur 8000C...
It has been serviced recently so is in working order.
Strapped it to my 11' Low Rider rod (8 guides + tip) with a plate type reel seat over the xflock grip (low position)
Was expecting the worst as I have not cast a multiplier on over 12 years!
It was awesome!

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 09:43 pm
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Tackle-holic wrote: I will have a bash at it and see how it goes!
Just unearthed a 28 year old ABU Ambassadeur 8000C...
It has been serviced recently so is in working order.
Strapped it to my 11' Low Rider rod (8 guides + tip) with a plate type reel seat over the xflock grip (low position)
Was expecting the worst as I have not cast a multiplier on over 12 years!
It was awesome!



Let me help you. Abu 8000C, NGC concept on [insert brand and model] rod... GREAT

I do see from start you are asking for opinion but all you do is simply use NGC and claim that field casting and casting performance is not related. No measurement of data from COF, no comparison, no mentioned of reel, type of cast, line etc. In summary, sheer awesomeness of randomness. Why did I even bother to show you how NGC and COF looks like?

I am talking about fieldcasting not tournament or competitive casting. I have not mentioned or copy/paste UKSF or JSCF competition criteria. Fieldcasting - taking your equipment to go to field and cast to compare how to achieve the best desirable effect. Desirable effect = distance, weight reduction, line wrap elimination etc. It's even goes to the extent that we even use LCSG, ELCSG, CLCSG, TLCSG, BLCAG all on the same rod 6+1tip (Fuji TMNST which happens to rust surprisingly), soak the rod in river water which is slightly saline and refuse to wash for 1 year to see which guides rust faster.

You mentioned cast great, but what is criteria for a great cast? Danny does a great cast, I sometime do a great cast, you most of the time do a great cast. Everyone else does an not-so-great cast but still lands fish.

A rod that fulfill the criteria to be able to be brought on field and measured will be able to assess if the word 'GREAT' can be used. I really feel great, I think I am gonna go fishing later.

I did not comment that KR concept is terrible. I am only asking you to use KR concept to use COF/ NGC or any other. Don't know why you are so defensive.

Last edited on Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 09:46 pm by OTGman

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 10:12 pm
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Alfred. I am not being defensive at all. Just shared that I took out an old unused multiplier reel and gave it a bash on a rod set up with low riders for a grinder. It was just interesting. I was intrigued as to how it would perform.
Some of the best and most useful information I have picked up prior to joining this forum was reading YOUR posts when I was just an anonymous reader too scared to say anything.
I value your input and experience tremendously. Not once have I said field casting and comparing before and after is not useful.
How could tha ability to throw further ever be of no use? A man who can throw 200 has the ability to throw shorter when required, a man who can only manage 50m will be limited if conditions dictate he needs to throw further.

Out if interest the rod I question was most definitely quantified before and after the LC conversion. 3 snap offs out of 8 casts and nothing better than 70m is most definitely down on the post rebuild.

I am not a good caster, so would never criticize someone who clearly is!

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 10:12 pm
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Alfred. I am not being defensive at all. Just shared that I took out an old unused multiplier reel and gave it a bash on a rod set up with low riders for a grinder. It was just interesting. I was intrigued as to how it would perform.
Some of the best and most useful information I have picked up prior to joining this forum was reading YOUR posts when I was just an anonymous reader too scared to say anything.
I value your input and experience tremendously. Not once have I said field casting and comparing before and after is not useful.
How could tha ability to throw further ever be of no use? A man who can throw 200 has the ability to throw shorter when required, a man who can only manage 50m will be limited if conditions dictate he needs to throw further.

Out if interest the rod I question was most definitely quantified before and after the LC conversion. 3 snap offs out of 8 casts and nothing better than 70m is most definitely down on the post rebuild.

I am not a good caster, so would never criticize someone who clearly is!

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:17 pm
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I can only comment if you quantify. If you wanna ask about titanium tip, this is my recommendation.

The Fuji titanium tip TMNST is made of 2 alloys, a titanium alloy welded to an allow of ferrous metal. IT WILL RUST.

The Fuji titanium guide do not spring back to original shape, if hit by hard object it will remain deformed. But you can bend it back by hand. So you can imagine how ductile it is.

 

The reason why people use titanium components:

1) To reduce overall weight, so that the rod recovers even faster which is suppose to give more distance (provided you can cast faster than the tip recovering)

So if you have a rod you are struggling to bend, do not use titanium guides. Use any guide that is heavier than original guide. The rod slows down, but it is not necessarily worst than having a pole with zero flex no different from lamp post.

2) Titanium forms oxide which acts as passive layer protecting base metal from corrosion. I use Fuji's and American Tackles' both has no rust after not washing for 1 year. Same material they use to make body piercing.

3) Because there are already factory built rods that come with it

 

After using titanium guides, my review is unless you are too lazy to wash else don't use it. If a rod stiffness/ recovery is carefully selected before buying, you won't even want to spend on titanium to stiffen the rod. Unless it's a rod of sentimental value and slower than modern day's rod. 

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 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:41 pm
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OTGMAN,

Could never justify titanium purely on cost, but it us encouraging that they are not always the best solution - ductility being a good point...
Considering I wash my tackle after every outing and not just after a weeks worth if fishing I think SS will be fine...
Hell, I live so far from the sea I am often reduced to getting my fishing fix by taking all my reels apart and servicing them for good reason...
Polishing rods with carnuba wax and clay might also be excessive!

I am clearly enthusiastic about KR... But I do know it is not suitable for all applications. Thread was started because I was excited about its use for lure spinning rods (LBG as the Aussies call it) for fish like Garrick, Kob ang Kingfish. Certainly not for monster casting machines or shark taming rods... I enjoy light tackle fishing.

That being said, I have read about some US based anglers using them for shark rods.

Some of my ideas and applications are being influenced by a couple of American builders who really believe in the KR concept as viable for surf use.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2014 12:39 am
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Enigma
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When it comes to Multiplier casting especially with heavier lines and weights I think I'll stick to K and MN series guides as I am a caster of leaders and leaders up to 1.6mm thick.

On my 7-10' Spinning rods I'm going to seriously look to the KR. I test casted the 10'6" KR concept rod with 10lbs Jerry Brown braid and 3.5oz Needle nose plug. Was getting consistant 145m accurate cast. Switched to 3oz lead (using 40lbs JB Leader)and climbed into it on the field and get a top cast of 172m so reckon a 160m cast with small bait and 3oz no problem. (Reel was Shimano XT-RB 6'000)

The other thing I found with the way you set the rod up is that it is very accurate and not one cast off, no matter how violently I cast. (Remember with me it's all BRUTE force and Ignorance when it comes to casting)

If I want it to go further I cast it harder......

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 Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2014 12:52 am
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Enigma,
I am super pleased you like it and approve!

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 Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2014 02:26 pm
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What happens when you put the choking guide not in accordance to 27x spool size? Have u tried and questioned why this guideline came about? If so, have u ever seen rods that allow u to use eg. 24x spool size and choke the line more rapidly to transition into running guide faster to further reduce tip weight?

Based on the variety of size within k series this can be done and can also be seen as an advantage over other concepts. Provided you are willing to explore.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 23rd, 2014 03:01 pm
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I am very keen to experiment
The 10'6" was not built on 27x spool dia principle, initial layout and choke point were adjusted and adjusted...
Was built by placing stripping guide to catch the coils reduce slap to 0 and then choke at approximately the same distance (slightly less) as stripper to reel as stripper to choke, no slap between guides, it works out at 19x spool diameter
I am busy experimenting with other non 27x choke points.
A St. Croix that I have just finished comes out at about 21x dia

27x works though if you are building a generic set up.
I think Tim Kirkman came up with 27x before the huge increased popularity in braid so could be more mono friendly?

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