SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community Home 
Home Recent Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


 Moderated by: Enigma, Emperor Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ...  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Fuji KR Concept  Rating:  Rating
 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 10:47 pm
  PM Quote Reply
21st Post
Enigma
Moderator


Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12890
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Spot on Alfred. The KR concept on small rods and reels strangely follows the cone of flight and natural reduction of the spiral cone of line flowing from the reel.

I think the majority of fishermen reading this now are getting a bit confused by the apparen Gibberish sprouting forth.

Basics.

The line from a fixed spool comes off the spool in a spiral taper (cone) when looked at from the reel to the tip. Some casting concepts are based on the cone and an attempt to keep the cone pure.

If you look at it from the side however one sees a Sin wave pattern and the LCAG and KR concept are based IMO on controlling the wavelength and keeping the wave pure (Microwave sound familiar)

This principle accompanied with the anti-tangling properties of the K Series helps achieve this and the anti tangle properties of the K series nullifies the effect of wind and water.

With the small size and varying heights of the KR guides the Cone of Clight is matched to where it is reduced to almost a ZERO size (ie choke point)

The High to medium step of the first 3 guides in the guide train stabilise the wave (cone) and bring it down to the choke point.

Then a series of Low, Light, Small guides keep the line/braid following the true curvature of the blank thereby keeping a smooth flow, increasing the power and sensitivity of the rod.

I was a doubter but as I always say..... Om te Meet is Om te Weet (to measure is to know)

I use the same rod, same reel, same line, same weight and just change guide train and guide concept and as far as possible cast under similar to same weather conditions and physically measure the cast improvements

The measured differences on Light to Medium Land Based spinning rods can be as much as 27% difference, making an OK rod a precision tool. The maths and CAD computer programs are important and make a huge difference but the angler wants to have a rod that cast's further, more accurately and handles a fish when it is hooked.

Component reliability and durability, once again only Fuji... they pioneered the concept and have the most robust and reliable products to achieve this

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 10:47 pm
  PM Quote Reply
22nd Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Recent KR Concept build at the UPPER end of light tackle spectrum
10'6' Oval butt / Sensation Rugged blank, throws 1oz about 105m 3 oz just over 145m
Smallish reel: Sustain 6000, 25lb Suffix 832 braid 50lb whiplash leader
Super light in the hand, could fish all day (nearly) Would prefer my 9' for all day cast after cast after cast after cast...
Granted its not casting to 200m but the6oz required to reach thus would mean a BEEEG spoon and BEEEG heavy rod that I could not cast all day.

Attachment: IMG_2057.jpg (Downloaded 724 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 10:58 pm
  PM Quote Reply
23rd Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
I did not take any photos (doffie) of another successful build:
I recently bought and rebuilt a 7' Daiwa Megaforce M rod for a mates 40th birthday present with KR setup.
Pre rebuild it could not consitently cast a 23g Onde Onde more than 50m.
Post rebuild was comfortably doing 75m. Consistently.
My casting spot became a joke as there is a tree and spruit at 70m that I used as a marker. Every bleeding cast went over the spruit into the trees.
Happy days!

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 11:06 pm
  PM Quote Reply
24th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Nicely brought back to basics
Apologies if i was starting to sound engineer-ish or speaking gibberish.
What I, and I think most other fishermen wants is a rod that casts FURTHER, is LIGHTER in the hand and will pull the skin off of a week-old boarding school custard.
Put the right sized lure, at the right depth and right speed in front of a fish and half the game is won... Match the hatch anyone?

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 11:14 pm
  PM Quote Reply
25th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Lovely rods.
R6300.00 for smallest/lightest one. R7800 for the big boy...
Mein Gott in Himmel!
Methinks South Africans have a good deal. Way, way less than half of that will buy a fantastic rod customised to a specific reel and casting set up...

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 11:18 pm
  PM Quote Reply
26th Post
OTGman
Member


Joined: Sun Jun 16th, 2013
Location: Japan, Japan
Posts: 156
Equipment: Everything
Best Catch: All fish
Favorite Fishing Spot: I don't fish
Boat: No boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
New guide concept. This is my braid setup.

Attachment: ngc rod.jpg (Downloaded 718 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2014 11:37 pm
  PM Quote Reply
27th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My KW setup NGC (New Guide Concept)... (mentioned in earlier non KR post)
Purglass 300/3 KW30/25/20/10 5x KT10 to MN10 tip
Beast of a rod, nice for yellowtail at St Francis...
Not that I get to go there, but still....

Attachment: IMG_2066.jpg (Downloaded 714 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2014 12:22 am
  PM Quote Reply
28th Post
OTGman
Member


Joined: Sun Jun 16th, 2013
Location: Japan, Japan
Posts: 156
Equipment: Everything
Best Catch: All fish
Favorite Fishing Spot: I don't fish
Boat: No boat
Club: 
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
If you want to discuss engineering, I can discuss engineering on how to break a monofilament line to the microscopic level but let's keep this simple since we are not suppose to be inventing anything new.

All polymer (mono or braid alike) will have a modulus of elasticity. This govern how 'durable' a line is in fishing, casting, pulling a load etc.

Modulus of elasticity (fixed value) = stress/ strain

Stress = Force from sinker/ cross section area of line

Strain = stretch / length of line

In laymen terms, other than use of a heavier sinker, the other way to break a line is to stretch it fast enough before it regains its shape.

So what are the things in a rod that causes stretch of mono? The choking guide.

In NGC, line flows in 2 different speed. Line thru running guide is fastest. Line from reel to choking guide is slower. To understand this look at a river channel, the water is always fastest at the part when its narrower.

So what happens when line is slow in running guides and your spool still supplies line due to momentum of the initial cast? You get backlash for multiplier and guide wraps for fixed spool. This usually happens under 1 circumstance- the shockleader knot hitting the tip. But this is unrelated to the topic, if you had read this paragraph you've wasted 1min of your life.

If the same line is subjected to 2 different speed, what happens? It stretches.

If you are unlucky, it breaks a few metres below the shockleader. If you are lucky, it stretches and the line weakens slightly but you'd still land a fish because your past experience tells you not to set a heavy drag.

These 2 ways to break a mono line is useless but when you think of how to make your fishing line last longer and fail safe, it starts to become useful.

Braid has low stretch which also means small amount of elongation. It does not behave the same manner as mono. The faster you can choke the line, the better to counter the erratic line flow/ wind factors. When you have a line that has alot of speed in the smaller running guides, it is less likely to succumb to wind direction. Since there is minimal stretch, the faster line drives the remaining portion of the line.

I will write on how to use a high swing pendulum to break a guide when I have the time.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2014 10:21 am
  PM Quote Reply
29th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Nice. Fishing rods I am building, or am interested in, are for braid, so choke faster is the clearly the way to go. I enjoy braid but do understand that it does have its limitations.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2014 10:31 am
  PM Quote Reply
30th Post
Enigma
Moderator


Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12890
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Works just as well on low diameter mono (under 0.25mm)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2014 10:46 pm
  PM Quote Reply
31st Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Shimano Beastmaster Dropshot 8' 3-28g
Was very unhappy with its first (pre rebuild...) outing, tip vibrated terribly after every cast and distances casted were hopeless, 40m was an achievement. I was regretting my purchase.

Guide layout was mock New Guide Concept but the height of the stripping guide and the next 2 intermediates was too low, causing slap against the blank reducing distance.

The tip had too few and too HEAVY guides on the tip resulting in a bouncing tip after every cast

Used a KLH20-KLH10-KLM7 reduction train with size 8 size 5 guides to the tip.

What a difference. Tip-oscilation of tip was gone and distance jumped to 65-70m

Remember that this is a light rod designed for casting weightless or lightly-weighted soft plastics (its what I bought it for) It was not designed for long casts with 1-2oz spoons...

Attachment: Beastmaster 01.jpg (Downloaded 685 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Wed Mar 19th, 2014 10:48 pm
  PM Quote Reply
32nd Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Rod under load

Attachment: Beastmaster 03.jpg (Downloaded 685 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Fri Mar 21st, 2014 09:15 pm
  PM Quote Reply
33rd Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Picked up 2 brand new rods on Wednesday for KR Concept rebuilds, both on Mitsubishi HMG blanks, so well worth the effort. Will post some pics of the blanks taped up for test casting, any comments or questions will be appreciated.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 12:49 am
  PM Quote Reply
34th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Reduction train, KL20H to KL10H to KL7M to KT7 (choke guide) spaced over 575mm, KL20H stripper/collector guide @ 475mm from tip of spool axle

Attachment: image.jpg (Downloaded 674 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 12:53 am
  PM Quote Reply
35th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
Rod is being set up for a 4000 sized Shimano hence the fairly close (although not extreme) stripping guide. Should give nice quick reduction to the running guides without any line slap.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:09 am
  PM Quote Reply
36th Post
Enigma
Moderator


Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12890
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Just by looking at the taped guides I can see the projected flow of line.

What I have found however, to be able to help with fine tuning and visualisation is to fit the reel but without the spool on.

I then attach some hi-viz yellow dacron onto the shaft (if you don't have then some thick white string will do the trick)

Thread it from the reel shaft through the guides to the choke point and you will immediately be able to shift the guides to keep the line flow straight through the centre of the guides down to the choke point.

This keeps the Cone of Flight (COF) unimpeded to the point where the core is 0mm in size.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:16 am
  PM Quote Reply
37th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
That is good advice and easier than using a table edge, the reel always seems to cause the rod to "want" to fall off the edge....

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:22 am
  PM Quote Reply
38th Post
Enigma
Moderator


Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12890
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
This thread has got me thinking a bit and I had the chance To tape up a rod worth these principles.

What I did find is that the choke of fight is held true and from the point where the cone is reduced to a single strand the line flow is channelled into a series of small guides that keep the line flow true to the bend of the blank.

This means more of the rod is used making it more Sensitive, more Accurate, more Powerful and all in all more of the blank is used.

The advantage of this, going back to your beastmaster is that you can fit BKTAG 5.5 which are ultralight and fully suited to the tackle the rod is rated for. Now the tip bounce will be null and the rod will probably pull double as hard as it did previously.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:23 am
  PM Quote Reply
39th Post
Tackle-holic
Sealiner
 

Joined: Tue Oct 8th, 2013
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 672
Equipment: Shimano reels, custom rods
Best Catch: My son's first fish caught on his own
Favorite Fishing Spot: Vaal river below Parys; Transkei estuaries, Kosi Bay
Boat: Does a kick boat count?
Club: No
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
KR guides very good at adjusting the COF to bring the line down faster than a New Guide Concept build.
The projected choke point for THIS layout is 1050mm from the spool axle.
NGC or 27x method puts choke at 1350mm.
This allows me to put 1 or 2 extra running guides onto the mid section.
Which will help both with line-flow and line control as well as extracting more fish fighting, strike and casting power from a relatively light blank (8' 15-45g)
Out if interest I used AutoCAD to draw up the layout and make sure there was a bullseye from stripper to choke.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: Sat Mar 22nd, 2014 11:25 am
  PM Quote Reply
40th Post
Enigma
Moderator


Joined: Mon Apr 27th, 2009
Location: Eldoraigne , South Africa
Posts: 12890
Equipment: Fishing Tackle and Lot's of IT
Best Catch: Anything with fins - from a 15gr 3 spot Barb ...
Favorite Fishing Spot: RSA
Boat: Na
Club: Northern Swerwers
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 
My Gallery: 
Tackle-holic wrote:
That is good advice and easier than using a table edge, the reel always seems to cause the rod to "want" to fall off the edge.h...

I would like to see the pics you do the demo with to show it with the thick yarn in so non rod builders can see what you and I see in the pics you have posted.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply


Current time is 04:51 am Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ...  Next Page Last Page    
SEALINE - South African Angling and Boating Community > General Angling Topics > Saltwater Lure Angling > Fuji KR Concept Top